About post deleting, moderating, etc.

[Pat McCarthy]

I thought I'd make a seperate post to address everyone's recent concerns about deleting posts and moderating. There are a lot of things to address, so this might be a tad long.

First, everyone needs to realize that there are lots of people who read and enjoy these forums, but either don't post it all, or don't post very often for various reasons. So, when you feel like "everyone" on the message boards feels one way about something, it's not always the case.

There's nothing new going on, we've been deleting posts since the beginning of message boards on Wakeboarder.com, and unfortunately, we'll have to continue to do it. To those of us who aren't offended easily, which includes me, it's no big deal to see posts that insult someone, contain sexual content, or contain swearing. However, there are LOTS of users who do have problems with these kinds of posts.

I get A LOT of complaints from users via private message and e-mail about certain topics, posters, etc. E-mails that say that they're no longer going to visit Wakeboarder.com because of all the sexual content on the message boards. Or people who don't like being insulted by other users personally. Or people who are offended because somebody posts a Special Olympics image making fun of the physically handicapped. Everyone is not exactly like you, so you just can't think because YOU think a post is fine, other people do as well.

I am stuck in the difficult position of trying to please ALL visitors to Wakeboarder.com. This means sometimes difficult decisions have to be made, and sometimes incorrect ones. I value every single user who comes here, I'm so glad you're using the site, but I also need to look out for every other user as well. It's very hard to make everyone happy. Is it worth it to leave all the controversial posts and lose visitors?

Regarding moderation, there will always be inconsistencies. There are multiple moderators because I don't have time to do it all myself. This means that one moderator might find something offensive that others don't. They know the rules, but still there are a lot of tough decisions moderators have to make. It's harder than you think.

Also, some of you are making statements and forming opinions without ever knowing the full story. For example, someone complained about the "find me a girl" and "find me a ninja turtle" posts being deleted. On the surface, it is confusing why they'd be deleted. However, what you don't know is that the original poster messaged me about the "find a girl" post because his friends made the post as a practical joke with his account and asked that the topic be deleted. So, I deleted it. Without that topic there, the "find a ninja turtle" post made no sense at all. It also was just making fun of another user, which we frown upon in general. So, both topics were deleted. Should I have private messaged everyone to tell them why it was deleted? Well, that would have taken me a long time. Should I have posted about it to point it out? I guess I could have done that, but I'm also usually working as fast as I can to get this stuff done in order to add content, add site features, answer e-mails, do my actual real job, or be with my wife and baby daughter.

So, I can't spend all day moderating and explaining the actions of all the moderators. Plus, if we explained every action we make, it will drastically slow us down, and I'll get far less done on the actual web site. However, I'm asking all moderators to try and make more of an effort to explain actions if it seems appropriate. But I also don't want the forums to turn into a bunch of messages of moderators explaining why stuff was deleted and then having people argue about it. That's not really a good use of anyone's time.

Also, moderators are human, and we make mistakes as well. I've made plenty of mistakes when moderating, and I'll continue to make mistakes.

Regarding Creamy and Crunchy, there were a few reasons that was locked. Mike had already explained why he did it, and he did ask me first. Basically, although we like users to be friendly and be able to chat, topics that really have no point don't serve much good to the general forum community. That topic turned into a chat room, and although that's partially okay, we get A LOT of complaints about our message boards having too much of that type of stuff. I talk to a lot of people who say they get tired of wading through that pointless posts to get to any good content. I know this is "Non-Wakeboarding", but that doesn't mean "Non-Wakeboarding" should mean that posts have no substance and just be a few people chatting back and forth. Sometimes, it's also good to move on from something as well. Instead of just adding on to one gigantic topic, it's better if people think up some new topics or ideas or post on smaller topics. I also had people who would message me asking when "that stupid post" will go away because they get tired of seeing it at the top of the forum. It's one of those decisions that's hard, because you piss users off if you let it go, and you piss them off if you lock it. It was also not deleted because everyone would have been more angry to lose so many posts from their post count.

There are also some "content" decisions I have to make. For example, there's been a recent rash of posts and discussions relating to DA MOOSE. Some people enjoy those posts, but most people hate them. I've had some users say that those topics single-handedly make these message boards worse. Also, they just turn into everyone making fun of MOOSE. Sure, I know he posts strange stuff, but he's technically not breaking any rules, while everyone else insulting him does. As a moderator, what do you do about that? Let them go and let the message boards just get worse for lots of users? Delete the topics? Ban MOOSE? Ban all the users insulting MOOSE?

This stuff can also be more serious than many of you realize. I've had people threaten to sue Wakeboarder.com because of posts. I've had users get called by other users on the phone and had threats made against them. I've had advertisers threaten to pull off the site due to content on here. It might not seem like a big deal to you, but frankly, I don't want to get sued, I don't want users getting threatened offline, and I don't want to lose funding for this site because advertisers pull out.

As moderators, we'll continue to try and improve and be clear, but as users, I also ask you to do the following:

- Keep having fun, but don't post stuff you know it going to get deleted or crosses the line.

- If you're unsure as to whether a post you want to make will get deleted, ask me or a moderator.

- If you want to know why a post was deleted, ask me or a moderator.

- Have patience, don't jump to conclusions about why a moderator action was made without knowing why first.

Thanks for visiting the site and taking part in the forums, I really am glad you're all here.

[jumalian]

Pat, all I have to say is YOU RULE!

[criminally_minded]

And we are really glad this site is here.

[scott a]

props to pat for busting his arse. i can only imagine how much time is spent keeping this site up and running.

[Craig]

Thanks for running a great site, Pat. I have enjoyed endless entertainment here, and hope to continue doing so for a long time.

[nick e[V]ans]

yeh i gota agree with you guys, pat you've done one hell of an awesome job with this site, especially getting it back up and running like u have, well done
nick

[Josh R]

1,259 words of wisdom there...

[Bethany]

Pat is the MAN!

[Jim M]

Good words Pat, nobody should feel the need to question or call out the actions of the moderators. I didn't get to read that whole thing, but I hope it addressed swearing--

Don't complain when you start dropping cuss words and your post gets deleted, or if the words are replaced with 'shizzle' or whatever. People say it makes them sound lame, WELL GOOD! Don't cuss, get your point across without sounding like an uneducated beligirent.

[Crissylicous]

Not a big deal at all, but just wondering what happened to the "Got any bump in your trunk" thread?

[Seth Martin]

it was just people picking on the guy for changing names, and his car, etc.

you didn't post anything wrong

[NAW]

I just like to wakeboard

[Grouch]

Sorry Pat,

I have done alot of the things that pat listed up there and I will make my best effort to better judge any pictures I post or responses I write.

Lets work together to make this a better site.

[JHrod]

oops--- ---time to change a few habits

[Nor*Cal]

Josh- You and me both...

[JHrod]

[DaveBrowning]