to pat, all moderators, and the public

FRANKIE · Guest

**i have chosen to address you all (in that order) in public versus in private because 1) i didn't feel like sending out 7 different PMs and 2) because i believe that this may be of some value to everyone and i would like to give everyone the opportunity to contribute and be heard.**

personally, i would like to know why EVERY SINGLE one of my posts, whether in conjunction or independent of entire threads, was deleted yesterday. let me say that i will not accept the following as satisfactory.

1. your posts were erased due to content.
2. your posts were erased due to location.
3. your post, although "okay", was deleted because it pertained to a thread, which itself was entirely deleted.

here is why these claims will not work.

1. even my "scott byerly is my favorite rider..." post was deleted. this is my opinion and i fail to see why its content is more offensive or inappropriate than anything else on here. why does this action particularly make my water boil? well, i'm glad you asked. because someone went through the entire "byerly in norcal" thread and erased only MY post. now, others that were of almost identical content remained... mine was deleted. explain.

2. i post topics of non-wakeboarding status in the non-wakeboarding forum and topics of general wakeboarding status in the general wakeboarding forum. i thought that was the rule?

3. refer back to number 1.

it has become increasingly apparent that i am not the only one who is questioning the justification of their contributions being axed. i thought that this site was constructed to be used by people of the age 13 and older. with this in mind, i frame my subject content to a PG13 audience. however, this does not seem to be sufficient. so i ask if you could kindly direct me and the rest of the public to the place on this site that lists all of the rules that one must abide to or what one needs to avoid in order to have a legit post. if this does not exist, could someone please list certain criteria that should and/or should not be present. in this way, we could all start on the same grounds and change our posting style accordingly...and most importantly avoid conflicts like this one.

this post is for everyone. please feel free to speak your mind (i won't delete it!!) and contribute towards solving this problem.

thank you all and take care.
frankie

JHrod · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 3144

i think if a moderator deletes a post they should send a PM to that person with a reason rather than leaving them in the dark Evil or Very Mad

Mike Isler · Moderator Joined: 11 Jan 2003 Posts: 718 City: New York

Frankie,

I naturally cannot speak for the other moderators. I have not read those posts you say were deleted, nor did I delete them. I did have a discussion with some people in the Creamy and Crunchy thread over the locking of that thread and over two threads that I had moved, though.

I don't know why those posts were deleted...whether or not it was intentional. Perhaps some of the other moderators will chime in with a reason.

Chales · Guest

Three cheers to Frankie!

JHrod · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 3144

hiphip-hooray
hiphip-hooray
hiphip-hooray

FRANKIE · Guest

mike.
am i wrong to assume that i should follow a PG13 guidline to post content? what else, in your opinion, is a necessary guidline for my posts to follow in order for them not to be deleted??? can you offer an idea as to WHY someone would delete my opinion on scott byerly???

take care.
frankie

Mike Isler · Moderator Joined: 11 Jan 2003 Posts: 718 City: New York

Frankie,

Nope, you're not wrong at all...that's the way I look at it. Keep things at a PG-13 level. Some things we let go anyways (like the "hottest...." etc) but for the most part we try to keep things at a family level...a somewhat mature family. I unfortunately cannot offer you any ideas as to why your posts were deleted since I don't know who deleted them and I didn't have a chance to read them.

Mike

FRANKIE · Guest

mike.
thanks for responding with what you could; i appreciate it.

take care.
frankie

jumalian · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 7625 City: san diego

Three cheers for Frankie? Why, 'cause she's complaining about her posts getting nuked?

I'm with Mike in that I can't speak for the rest of the moderators, nor did I see what went on yesterday in the forums. I'll say this, though...

Not all threads/posts are read by every moderator, including Pat. If a moderator missed something, but sees it later, that could be why the thread lasted.

Not all threads/posts are allowable to every moderator. What could be fine to Mike, could be offensive to me. The way I see it is that if 1 moderator finds it offensive, that's all it takes.

Frankie, you may or may not agree w/ your threads/posts getting nuked, but fact of the matter is, a moderator found something offensive in your threads/posts. I'm sure the person wasn't nuking them for the heck of it. Just deal with it with the moderators, instead of making a big stink about it here. Email Pat, and/or the other moderators. Making a thread about it doesn't do much for your credibility.

I was banned from the other site. Did I think it was for no reason? No, I broke the rules. Did I agree with the rules? No, but they were his rules, and I broke them. So my threads/posts and "membership" was banned. I made a thread about it, and after a while, I realized it was stupid of me to have done that.

Da MOOSE · Posted: May 11, 2003 3:08 pm Post subject:

My post are allway being taken down ,The moderators will let people BASH me personly,which is wrong ,but when I defend my self in a proper maner thay take it down .just deal like I do.it's that good old boys club.
FREEDOM OF SPEECH ROCKS Cool

JHrod · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 3144

she already explained her reason for bringing out in public joe--it was her first sentence

DaveBrowning · Posted: May 11, 2003 3:09 pm Post subject:

I think the moderator's should have set guidelines and not go by what offends them.

jumalian · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 7625 City: san diego

Josh, I understand that. But the 'disclaimer' doesn't make it alright.

BLAH..I don't care. If she wants to talk about it here, fine. I'm goin' riding w/ Funkster and Otiswunguy now.

JHrod · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 3144

have fun

FRANKIE · Guest

josh.
thank you. it's nice to see that some people like to read the WHOLE post for what is says instead of tayloring it to suit their own agenda or platform.

joe.
the cheers were for me because i saw a COMMON problem and decided to provide a post where ALL could address THEIR OWN concerns. YES, i started it off with my own personal view, but it is applicable to all. i didn't cheer for myself... obviously someone else supports this post. that is their opinion and this is yours. I AM NOT YOU... do NOT use ME to justify or rectify YOUR mistakes... to adhere YOUR agenda/platform. DO NOT assume that i don't know what went on with your banishment to wakeworld and what actions you took to try to "redeem" your side of the story. this is not that. this is an attempt to come to an "order", a "concensus"...so that we can discuss and resolve the issue of what guidlines are being used to moderate our posts and what do we need to keep in mind so that we can all share this forum positively without offending people. this will help both users and moderators.

p.s. have a great time riding!!

to all.
these forums used to be so much fun! they were entertaining and full of life! but what used to be okay then, is now constantly getting deleted - which changes the shape and style of these forums to the point that a lot of people who used to frequent these forums are now staying away. it's okay, and often necessary, to have rules. but i'm saying that apparently we all aren't on the same page here. we don't like it when we are all haveing a great time and the thread gets deleted. and i am sure that the moderators don't like having to constantly be on the look out for provocative posts. so we need to come to some sort of common ground here. there has to be a way where we all can enjoy ourselves with out overtly offending or going beyond the acceptable.

like josh said, it would be nice if instead of having to delete whole threads, a moderator could simply delete just the offensive post/s AND then post WHY they did so. that way we LEARN and UNDERSTAND where that person/s over stepped the boundaries (so that this can be prevented in the future). it flat out sucks to wake up the next morning to see that all 30 some of your posts are gone and you have nothing to talk about.

take care all.
frankie

Dragonlady8 · Guest

Some words of wisdom to all ~DON'T PISS OFF FRANKIE! Wink

My Chilean Lil sis can become much more fiery than a habanero.

Love you, mean it Mr. Green

Bill Y Bob · Posted: May 11, 2003 3:37 pm Post subject:

I think something was wrong with the site yesterday. Several of my posts got deleted even though there was nothing even close to offensive in them.

FRANKIE · Guest

nothing but love for ya, big sis!!

jumalian · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 7625 City: san diego

Uh, I'm not rectifying anything for anyone. Don't get all defensive. I was just tryin' to help and tried to put it nicely, but since you choose to attack me, I'll just leave it alone.

Chill out. Geezus. It's just a freakin' message board. Don't freakin' attack me. Don't think you're the expert in what "went on" w/ my "banishment". I, too, am an expert in something that "went on". Keep that in mind.

DRAGON88 · Posted: May 11, 2003 5:07 pm Post subject:

wait, now i am cerious whith joes banishment... care to explain??

frankie- Right on sista!

Crissylicous · Outlaw Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 193 City: Wonder Lake

NOT taking sides on this... But dont the moderators and work for free, and they're doing alot, working hard, and were not paying to use this site. Sorry to hear about your posts Frankie, I can see the point that maybe some things have been deleted that didnt need to be, but crap happens. So, now I'll just say thanks to all of them and Pat for giving us a site we can all enjoy! Very Happy

-Crissy

DaveBrowning · Posted: May 11, 2003 5:55 pm Post subject:

FRANKIE · Guest

crissy.
i am uber grateful to pat and all of the moderators who, as you pointed out, do work for free to give us a site that we can all socialize and interact on. no one was questioning their value or hard work.

i just want to know what i need to do/not do inorder for my posts to not get deleted. obviously i (and other people) am not playing by the rules... so i'd like to know how to avoid creating posts that will be deleted. that's all.

Pat McCarthy · Posted: May 11, 2003 6:40 pm Post subject:

Well, I have no idea why your posts were deleted, if they even were by a moderator intentionally. We did move the site yesterday to a new server, which perhaps deleted posts or topics you made during that time period?

Regarding the general rules, there are rules that are stated, and most people that do cross the line know that they're doing so.

Regarding telling people why posts are deleted, we'll try making an effort to do that, but I basically have no free time in the first place, so when I'm moderating I do it as fast as possible, and sending a private message to someone telling them that their post was deleted for posting an inappropriate image, swearing, or something else feels somewhat obvious.

However, I do appreciate your concerns and the concerns of everyone else. I'd like this to be as fun of a place as possible, while also making it an enjoyable experience for people who don't want to see swearing, scantily clad women, and endless sexual jokes. We let some of that slide by as you'll notice, but sometimes it crosses the line.

I still don't know why your posts were deleted, were they all made yesterday?

Pat McCarthy · Posted: May 11, 2003 6:47 pm Post subject:

Oh, and whole threads are sometimes deleted when they're filled with posts that cross the line. Some topics lead into causing inappropriate posts, which is why the whole topic gets deleted. It's also rather time consuming to delete 10 posts out of one topic individually.

FRANKIE · Guest

hey pat!
yes, i have no doubt that you have only good intentions. i was just noticing that the majority of my posts were getting deleted, up until yesterday when every single one of them got axed. even my "scott byerly is my fav rider..." got axed. and that is my opinion. plus, it was the only one out of all the posts in that thread that got deleted - so i took that kinda personally. i understand if a moderator feels the need to delete one of my posts because i use excessive swearing and try to cover it up somehow. but now even my opinions are getting deleted. that just doesn't make much sense.

so i was just curious... i mean, yeah it could be my fault. i can not say with honesty that i have never contributed to those "endless sexual jokes." but if everything i am posting is being deleted because it is offensive, that tells me that the problem is me/that i need to work on being more socially appropraite. this is why i ask. i apologize if i am constantly violating certain boundaries, but like i said before, i try to taylor my contributions to a PG13 audience. so if this is not sufficient, then i guess i'm not sure what these boundaries are and i would appreciate being corrected.

take care and thank you for responding!
frankie

Pat McCarthy · Posted: May 11, 2003 7:14 pm Post subject:

Hi Frankie,

I don't know of any of the moderators who chose to single you out to delete your posts. I also don't think there's a reason your Scott Byerly post would be deleted, but I also didn't read it to be able to judge it. Was it posted yesterday afternoon? If so, it could have been lost in the server transfer.

Shawn Madison · Posted: May 11, 2003 7:29 pm Post subject:

FRANKIE, Well, I did not delete them! I personally like the idea of free speech and worship the right to it. But, I do not own this site and nor do I set the rules. But, from what I have seen is that Pat tries to make this site suitable for a family environment! From that, I try to only delete posts(rarely whole topics) that are of questionable manner for a family environment(ie. overly sexual wording, descriptions, making overly personal attacks towards someone, etc.). Well, it definitely is not an exact science and we(moderators, Pat) pursue it differently-but, we are just trying to make it fair and suitable for all! And it is a ton of work! I personally will try and email/PM someone if I delete their posts to help thwart this problem in the future! Also, if one is bad enough-I will forward it to Pat with my reason for deleting it!

FRANKIE, I hope you keep contributing to the site. I know how it feels to get alot of posts deleted. It seems like you have no voice and that what you have said is all wasted. I do think it could have been something with the server change yesterday! Who knows until the correct answer is discovered! I do not think it was personal though! Smile

criminally_minded · Posted: May 11, 2003 7:36 pm Post subject:

I have gone back to threads before to find otherwise inoffensive posts 'deleted'. Electricsnow had a post yesterday which didn't seem to have anything wrong with it which just vanished, I believe this happens at random, and although I can't explain it generally, the server change seemed to cause some problems yesterday.

I don't think it is the moderators in most of these cases. They seem to be 'firm but fair', and they let a lot slide.
Technology is a bitch!

pedro · Posted: May 11, 2003 9:49 pm Post subject:

Frankie

Sounds like a technical error to me.

Try posting some more today & see what happens.

Pedro

scott a · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 9810

when i left to go riding on friday afternoon everything was fine...now i read on another thread that the server (or something computer related) was changed and also posts have gonne "missing." everything was cool when i left...now there is talk of posts gettin deleted for no reason at all...

maybe these two are related?

K-dub · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 14760

I know scott....what's going on here??? Everyone is all bent out of shape on here....This is strange! Rolling Eyes

scott a · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 9810

how about we just blame it all on frankie and get on with our lives? Very Happy

you know im kiddin...good to see that you've returned though.

Josh R · Posted: May 11, 2003 10:32 pm Post subject:

Cry me a river...

Your Scott Byerly post will have been scrambled by the server change. I know a lot of my posts, and a very good post by Electricsnow disappeared too.

Getting posts deleted can suck. I deal with it. It's just the internet...

Pat McCarthy · Posted: May 11, 2003 10:56 pm Post subject:

After talking to a few different people who had post deletion problems, it appears that the move to the new server did leave a few posts/topics deleted. Sorry about that, such is the cost of technology!