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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 12257
City: Dallas
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 Posted: Sep 29, 2006 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Nick Taylor, you are missing my argument. First of all, I am speaking about the masses. I have a huge passion for both sports and love how technical wakeskating is. But I am not among the masses here. The masses are more interested in what looks cool on a first glance. They look at wakeskating and see something that looks cool and hard. Then look at wakeboarding and see someone flying 12 ft in the air like superman and there's an extra wow-factor. That's just the way the public is. I am not trying to hinder the public from becoming interested in wakeskating. In fact when they get interested in wakeboarding they will likely find wakeskating later and may completely give up wakeboarding. That's just another reason that it's better to keep the sports integrated instead of trying to segregate them.
My entire point is that segregation is bad for both sports. It creates an attitude of hostility toward both groups and that atmosphere is not very welcoming to newcomers. If you try to segregate yourself from wakeboarders chances are you are going to get less exposure for your sport and will grow slower than using the similarities in the sports to increase participation in both. This isn't what integrity is selling. They are trying to sell that the big companies are bad and you should shun them. Then wakeskaters take that attitude and are hostile against "strappers." Bringing the hostility and elitism from skateboarders and surfers that other sports hate. How stoked do you think a new wakeboarder is going to be when they hear some wakeskater is ragging on them for the sport they're getting into. Rather than being accepting and using the mutual similarities to draw new people they turn off wakeboarders who might be interested in skating. That's why it is bad for both sports.
| Quote: | | If you think anyone is in wakeskating for the money, you are blinded. They definitely need money to thrive, but marketing is not the focus of any rider owned company I've come across. Putting out a high quality product seems to be the focus, as well as spreading the word of wakeskating. I am not paid to sell a message, supporting rider owned companies and pushing wakeskating in the right direction is what I truly believe in and is something I'm very passionate about. |
You don't seem to understand what marketing is. Marketing is "spreading the word of wakeskating." You are paid because a guy that can land sick tricks has more clout than some idiot who doesn't know what they're doing. You are paid to market the company. Does that mean that you don't believe it? Absolutely not. Most people believe in the products they market but that doesn't mean it's the best thing for the industry. It is however the market that integrity is going for.
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I feel like you are limiting yourself with your opinion and trying to defend it. I'm not saying you can't express your opinion, I'm saying that it is a decidedly elitist one.
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In truth I am not limiting myself or anyone else. I am trying to promote the growth of both sports and not 1 certain segment like integrity. And I am not being paid to do it. The elitist attitude are those of the condescending wakeskaters who bring a lot of negativity into the boat calling others derogatory names and fostering dissension.
Nick, you have been "sold" by integrity. Most of what they're selling (figuratively) is positive but segregation is not. Holding high morals and how they conduct business is great and one of the reasons I bought an integrity. Yes, I would prefer to help the working class guy who has a passion for the sport but I did not buy an integrity so I would build a wall between myself and other people who are passionate about riding sideways.
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If you think anyone is in wakeskating for the money, you are blinded.
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I never said anyone was out there to get rich but you have to make money to stay in business so making money is going to be a priority of any company. You are blinded if you don't think money is the major drive force for the way a company markets itself. Fortunately it is easy to sell teenagers on anti-establishment and they are doing a good job at it.
I have provided a couple different examples of why segregation is bad. If you really think it is a good thing for wakeskating, give me some scenarios. I am interested in why so many wakeskaters think it's a good idea, other than for their own personal satisfaction.
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LFADAM
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 5283
City: New York City
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| Posted: Sep 29, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| wheres the star button? |
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Blake
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2794
City: Seattle
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| Posted: Sep 29, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick Taylor wrote: | | I invented wakesurfing. |
I invented the question mark.
Whats with all the hate coming from strappers? Some nukkas jus be likin to ride the sybian raw yo!
DUTCH HATERS! |
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Blake
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 2794
City: Seattle
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| Posted: Sep 29, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Wakebrad, how long did that take you to post?
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| WattsBarRiDr wrote: | | NO way dude... i ve ridden mostly with like smi pros and sum pro wakeboarders like philip soven and shaun murray and mosty adam fields |
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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 12257
City: Dallas
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| Posted: Sep 29, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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hahaha too long. I actually had a meeting to go to half way through the post so if the thoughts seem scattered that's why. 
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david-d
Guest
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| Posted: Sep 29, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Blake, |
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Nick Taylor
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1273
City: Anna Maria Island
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| Posted: Sep 30, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: |
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EDIT: Hey look, an otter!
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Last edited by Nick Taylor on Oct 01, 2006 5:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nick Taylor
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1273
City: Anna Maria Island
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| Posted: Oct 01, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Wakebrad wrote: | | Nick Taylor, you are missing my argument. |
It seems I did miss the main point of your arguement. I am not for the segregation of our 2 sports, considering that they aren't really tangible entities that can be separated, they are two different art forms. If you're against separate mags, I disagree. It seems that you can't get out from your idea that wakeskating was made to be wakeboarding's little brother.
| Quote: | | First of all, I am speaking about the masses. I have a huge passion for both sports and love how technical wakeskating is. But I am not among the masses here. The masses are more interested in what looks cool on a first glance. They look at wakeskating and see something that looks cool and hard. Then look at wakeboarding and see someone flying 12 ft in the air like superman and there's an extra wow-factor. That's just the way the public is. I am not trying to hinder the public from becoming interested in wakeskating. In fact when they get interested in wakeboarding they will likely find wakeskating later and may completely give up wakeboarding. |
EDIT: They shouldn't have to see wakeboarding first and then stumble upon wakeskating. I want them to see wakeskating first. I'm an elitist ass for that, I know.
| Quote: | | My entire point is that segregation is bad for both sports. It creates an attitude of hostility toward both groups and that atmosphere is not very welcoming to newcomers. If you try to segregate yourself from wakeboarders chances are you are going to get less exposure for your sport and will grow slower than using the similarities in the sports to increase participation in both. |
I'm against negativity in all forms. No exceptions. I have nothing against wakeboarders in general or the sport itself. It's the kooks within the sports (and we have them in wakeskating too) that bother me. Negativity and killing the stoke are capital offenses when riding with me and the penalty is death by grip tape burn. I cannot explain everything about the big waterski companies that kills me from the inside, but that is only part of the reason I don't want to be forever bound to the wakeboarders shadow. If WBM wants to cover wakeskating, I'm all for it, I am SOOOOO grateful for the coverage they have given me and the cool people I have met through them. Alliance too, their magazine and the people at them are super cool. But when alliance set out to do their own wakeskating mag, that's what puts them in the right spot in my eyes.
| Quote: | | This isn't what integrity is selling. They are trying to sell that the big companies are bad and you should shun them. |
We'll also tell on you for being a communist, DON'T DRINK FANTA.
| Quote: | | Then wakeskaters take that attitude and are hostile against "strappers." Bringing the hostility and elitism from skateboarders and surfers that other sports hate. How stoked do you think a new wakeboarder is going to be when they hear some wakeskater is ragging on them for the sport they're getting into. |
I don't know about you, but the majority of surfers and skaters that I have come across have been the most chill, life-loving souls I could've hoped for. There are exceptions. Those are called kooks, and this is where your arguement goes astray. You are grouping all wakeskaters together with a general assumption that they hate wakeboarders and are willing to voice that feeling. Wakeboarding has it's elitists, ever get bitched at for not grabbing right? That makes the newcomers really stoked 
You think that Integrity puts forth the idea that wakeskaters should be "hostile against strappers"?!?!?!? I know that Erich had the Militia graphics, you know when he had a WAKEBOARD company for like 8 years (Mutiny), but I doubt he's gonna storm the beaches to wipe out the strappers. You are delusional to think that Integrity wants people to be hostile to others who enjoy riding the wake.
| Quote: | | You don't seem to understand what marketing is. Marketing is "spreading the word of wakeskating." |
Spreading the word of one's company and spreading the word of one's sport are NOT one and the same.
| Quote: | | You are paid because a guy that can land sick tricks has more clout than some idiot who doesn't know what they're doing. You are paid to market the company. Does that mean that you don't believe it? Absolutely not. Most people believe in the products they market but that doesn't mean it's the best thing for the industry. It is however the market that integrity is going for. |
Remind me, what am I doing that isn't good for the industry?
| Quote: | | In truth I am not limiting myself or anyone else. I am trying to promote the growth of both sports and not 1 certain segment like integrity. And I am not being paid to do it. The elitist attitude are those of the condescending wakeskaters who bring a lot of negativity into the boat calling others derogatory names and fostering dissension. |
I will repeat: Negativity, kooks, and elitists are the enemies of mine, check out the integrity website if you're not afraid of being brainwashed. And please stop dragging integrity's name through the mud during your arguements, it's not helping anyone. I have never witnesses condescending wakeskaters bringing negativity into the boat calling others derogatory names and fostering dissension. Assuming you have, perhaps you should look at the person, and not what kind of board they are riding. Based on your post, I can only assume that you have had bad experiences with kooks who ride wakeskates. I'm sorry to hear that, considering they bring everyone down, always. I'd recommend not bringing them on the boat anymore, but you can't assume all wakeskaters are like that.
| Quote: | | And I am not being paid to do it |
You are trying to undermine my opinion by claiming it is insincere. I would appreciate it if you would not do that.
| Quote: | | Nick, you have been "sold" by integrity. |
Again, you make it sound like I was duped and blindsided.
| Quote: | | Most of what they're selling (figuratively) is positive but segregation is not. Holding high morals and how they conduct business is great and one of the reasons I bought an integrity. Yes, I would prefer to help the working class guy who has a passion for the sport but I did not buy an integrity so I would build a wall between myself and other people who are passionate about riding sideways. |
While I am glad you are helping support wakeskating and Integrity, the fact that you bought an Integrity and the conversation we are having gives credance (sp?) to my statement that board sales do not drive my passion or opinions.
Who's building a wall? You are selling (figuratively) a conspiracy by the wakeskaters to start a war against wakeboarding. I wish you could see the vibes I get to be around when I am riding with people from both persuasions. The stoke that gets flowing when we ride doubles, one on skate, one on straps, and homie does a scarecrow over the guy on the skate or they start pretending they are filming each other from sick angles and the perma-smile on each of their faces. That's riding the wake for me and it doesn't involve hate or negativity.
While wakeboarding doesn't turn me on like it used to, I still respect that some people still base their lives off of it. Just because it's not important to me anymore doesn't mean it's not life for others, you know?
| Quote: | | Quote: |
If you think anyone is in wakeskating for the money, you are blinded |
I never said anyone was out there to get rich but you have to make money to stay in business so making money is going to be a priority of any company. You are blinded if you don't think money is the major drive force for the way a company markets itself. Fortunately it is easy to sell teenagers on anti-establishment and they are doing a good job at it. |
They hate that. I hate it. The fact that money is really what gets shít rollin is one of the hardest parts of starting a company. You start the company with a good idea, a dream and you want everyone to know. You want everyone to be as excited as you are about what you are doing and even with all this inspiration and satisfaction it still boils down the dollar signs. It sucks.
If you really think that Erich's motivations for Mutiny and Integrity's inherent anti-waterski company idiom are a marketing ploy, bless your soul. I would've quit the first time after everything that guy has been through, but luckily it's not me behind the wheel right now.
I hope the words "Pot/kettle" never show up in this thread.
| Quote: | | I am interested in why so many wakeskaters think it's a good idea, other than for their own personal satisfaction. |
You do realize that it was a wakeboarder that started this thread, wanting us out of yalls magazines and getting our own.
What personal satisfaction are skaters supposed to get from leaving others out? Sounds like middle school complex. Don't look at the skate, it's just something they can use to try to be something different. They just need attention..etc. Kooks.
In the end it really comes down to one thing, love for your sport.
And I love myself.
`tnt
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Nick Taylor
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1273
City: Anna Maria Island
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| Posted: Oct 01, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Jesus tap dancing Christ that is a long post
Brad, If I get assigned a 6 page essay on political partisanship anytime soon is it cool if I use these posts?
I hope you don't think I have anything against you, I actually really enjoy being able to put in words what I feel, it helps me understand myself too. If you are ever in South Florida, we should go wakeboarding 
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8824
Ladies Man
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 15136
City: Wilmington, Delaware
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| Posted: Oct 02, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Can someone (like Blake) please give me the brief overview?
There are some marathon posts in this thread.
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Nick Taylor
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1273
City: Anna Maria Island
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| Posted: Oct 02, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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muckmeister,
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ontrider
Ladies Man
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia
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| Posted: Oct 02, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Nick Taylor, can you fax me the coles notes please!?
It seems like you guys both have the right attitudes and just have a little different perspective on the marketing side of things, which is somewhat open for interpretation anyway. I definitely agree that by sticking together, riders from both sports have something to gain (and why shouldn't they stick together.) IMO if wakeskating tries to branch of and segregate it has a lot more to lose. It can definitely do this, but keep the exposure within wb mag etc. at the same time. |
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Mike.H
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 2205
City: oceanside, ca
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| Posted: Oct 04, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| My head hurts |
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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 12257
City: Dallas
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| Posted: Oct 04, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to go through point by point again but I'll just say that there is a certain level of perspective that you are missing about business. It is understandable considering your main experience is with only one company and you have been heavily associated with that company since you were pretty young.
I am thankful for the big bad waterski companies who came in and rescued companies like Liquid Force and Obrien. "Riders" aren't known for being the best business people and it has shown. Hopefully Erich has gotten better at it because his track record of success isn't exactly spectacular.
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JoshGillie
Newbie
Joined: 04 Oct 2006
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Oct 04, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree - they should have a wakeskate magazine separate from the wakeboard magazine. Whatever you like, get that magazine. |
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Nick Taylor
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1273
City: Anna Maria Island
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| Posted: Oct 05, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Wakebrad, I prefer not to be in the business mindset, most of the time, but you are making a lot of assumptions saying I've only ever dealt with one company and saying that I've been heavily involved since I was young. It was only a year and a half ago that I joined the Integrity family.
I'm just gonna end with what I think needs to be said the most.
I love wakeskating.
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8824
Ladies Man
Joined: 29 Jul 2004
Posts: 15136
City: Wilmington, Delaware
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| Posted: Oct 05, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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JoshGillie,
I think you are mistaken with all due respect, with the exception of a few people, almost everyone I know that skates also wakeboards.
I see no harm in having both in the same mag. If it was not for my strapping friends, I am not sure I would have started skating. They pushed me to try the skate and I was hooked after that. When was the last time Byerly strapped?
Granted skating is far superior, I still don't see the harm.
Everyone keeps looking for reason to separate these two. They should be together.
Integrate not segregate. 
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cadence_131
Outlaw
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 136
City: Miami
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| Posted: Oct 12, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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DAM controversy over here! okay heres how it is... some people like wakeboarding and some people like wakeskating... some like both. the ones that only like one .. FLIP THE PAGE O WISE ONE. its really not that complicated that it takes two pages of fighting. BTW... this is the wakeskating forum... where people probably like wakeskating.. not trying to be a B**** but come on... dont hate
Ps- wakeskating is fun... maybe if u gave it a try u wouldnt feel so angry when u looked at a picture of it  |
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cadence_131
Outlaw
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 136
City: Miami
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| Posted: Oct 12, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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wow- idiot on myself.. sorry didnt think i only read the first page... guess the controversy is over  my bad |
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