Gun Control

[Liprider]

then things can get really nasty

[Leggester]

liprider, you're killing me! backfires! HA!

I don't argue Dave, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Middle of the night and you hear something. A person that wakes well and is familiar with firearms may be OK in that situation. But, I know how my wife wakes up. No way in hell shoudl she be fumbling around trying to find a pistol. She'd be a danger to all, including herself.

I'm not saying it's wrong for everybody, just that it's safer without.

I have a six year old girl.

Now, she doesn't touch my shop tools ( even though I unplug them all ), she doesn't touch the tools outside. Knows not to handle knives or swords when 'Daddy' is not around. Also know the same about the rifles and pistols.

BUT, I'll be darned if I'll leave the ammo lying around. She's just too precious to take that chance with.

[otiswunguy]

swass - 5 times more likely to be used against you than what? just curious? that might be the case. but those would be the incidents where a child hates his parents(kip kriegel sp) and uses a weapon from their house to injur them. or there is the idiot that pulls a gun for intimidation reasons but not protection. or where a wife has finally had enough of getting beat every night so she uses the weapon. i don't think that the numbers you gave are accurate. police only find out about the gun owners getting shot with their own gun if they lose. when they win by causing an intruder to leave it isn't entered as a saved life. just an attempted burglary. if you know how to use a gun and keep tabs on where it is at regularly, it will protect you. rant... um no just opinion. despite what you think , i am allowed to have one. a rant is like your posts on global warming. one after another trying to force people to think your way.

[Craiggy]

Just a thought; In Canada it's illegal to have anything except a rifle for hunting, and crime rate is a lot lower. I'm not saying one way or the other

[Swass]

Gee, Otis, I didn't know I had the power to force you to do anything. When did I say you can't have an opinion? What do you think a debate is, Otis?

BTW, I had a grand total of ONE post on the global warming thread, and I offered no opinion one way or the other. Care to try again?

If you don't like my opinion, ignore it.

[OttoNP]

I believe the stat your talking about is the one that says you are 43 times more likely to kill yourself or a family member than an intruder...sounds bad, huh? Well, of those 43, 37 are suicides and in most successful defenses, the intruder is only scared away, wounded, or arrested. If the intruder isn't killed, the study didn't count that. So 37 people kill themselves and 5 people are killed by an intrudor for every one intruder that is killed. Other studies say that firearms are used 3-5 times more to stop crimes than to commit them in homes.

Also, it takes less time than you think to load a gun. We were all talking about this once and I decided to find out. I sat on my couch and and timed how long it took me to get up, go to my closet, take my 45 out of its case, eject the clip, load it with 7 bullets, and I'm an idiot it. It only took 1.5 minutes. If you keep the clip out of the gun but loaded it would be less than that and in a real emergency you probably wouldn't have to load all 7 bullets. I don't have any kids and kids are never at my house, so I normally keep the clip filled and in the gun but no bullet chambered.

For me the bottom line is criminals have guns and if you don't have one and a criminal breaks into your house you are at their mercy. They can take your stuff, rape you wife or children, kill you, kidnap your family, torture your family, etc... I'm fine with not letting criminals get guns again or waiting periods, but I don't like gun registration. The Nazi's did this and other forms of gun control.

I've got a couple of guns mainly just because I like target shooting and I hope I will never use them for anything else.

Here's a good site about some gun fables:
http://www.nraila.org/media/misc/fables.htm

This is sweet, it is called "armed citizen," and is all about people saving themselves from criminals with guns.
http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen.asp

Here's a quick story from there...

"The manager of a Farmington Hills, Michigan, motel and his fiancee were in a bedroom early one Sunday morning when a man came inside, threatened the pair and attacked the woman with a hammer. The manager was able to halt the potentially deadly attack with three shots from a .357 Mag., sending the intruder to a hospital in critical condition. "

Also, note that since the intruder didn't die, most gun control studies would not count this as a successful defense
________
TRICHOME

[OttoNP]

Note above how wakeboarder.com's censorship system changed the term used to get a firearm ready to fire into a word that makes the statement pretty funny...

Here's another story, this time with a "successful defense."

"The burglar ransacked 81-year-old Alberta Nicles' Muskegon, Michigan, home before waking her up and ordering her around the house to search for money. Ending up back in her bedroom, the intruder--a suspected crack addict with a long history of criminal activity--removed the widow's pajama bottoms and was preparing to rape her when she informed him that she knew where there was some money. Her assailant let her up and followed her to a closet where the woman instead retrieved her late husband's .38. She turned and shot her tormentor to death. Nicles then went to a neighbor's home to call police because her own lines had been severed by the intruder prior to his breaking in. "This was not just a random breaking and entering. ...He was planning on taking advantage of the vulnerability of an elderly person. ...She was clearly acting in self-defense," Muskegon County Prosecutor Tony Tague said. "

"A woman shot and injured a gunman in her yard early one Sunday, cutting short his assault on her and her children. Jaquie Creazzo and her three daughters were forced to flee their home after smoke from a car fire billowed into the house. Once they were outside, Justin Michael Getz came screaming toward the wheelchair-bound woman and her family, firing two handguns at them. "He was loaded for bears," Creazzo said. Her daughters and two nearby firefighters ducked for cover from the erratic gunfire, but Creazzo drew her own gun and fired several shots, hitting her attacker in the leg. Getz was the ex-boyfriend of Creazzo's eldest child, and, according to Creazzo, had threatened to kill the family two days earlier when the girl refused to see him again. "I'm certain if I hadn't responded, none of us would be here today," Creazzo said of the incident. "He had made threats to kill each and every one of us."

"After a 72-year-old grandmother heard noises in the back yard of her Colorado Springs, Colo., home late one night, she called out to ask who was there, then grabbed her gun. Seconds later, an intruder slammed into the bolted back door, but the feisty woman was ready with her.38-cal. revolver. Four shots sent the man fleeing to a car, but police quickly caught up with him after he allegedly caused two hit-and-run accidents. He was later investigated in connection with two rapes that occurred in the same area. The elderly victim later reflected, "What would I have done if I hadn't had my gun? I would have been just another statistic."
________
Mac Games

[Leggester]

Otto, not to get you riled, but please take the NRA stories with a grain of salt. I get the magazine also, been a member for 20+ years, but they are definitely slanted. There is one fact the NRA completely ignores - most gun owners have never even taken a gun safety course. They may have been shown at the shop where they bough it how to load, but that's not very likely.

In Denver alone, there have been five accidental shootings the past two weeks. This is from improperly stored firearms and ammunition. When parents were not home. Hell, one was a fella trying to make sure the gun was unloaded - and shot a teen that was sitting with him. Now, you and I both know there ain't no such thing as an unloaded gun and you ever, even in play, have the barrel pointing at yourself or someone else. Why was this basic fact ignored?

You are talking about extreme situations that almost never happen. Most burglaries take place during the day and/or when folks aren't home.

I was convinced in the eighties, not to have loaded weapons in my house. A friend was staying with me while he was getting back on his feet. At 1:30 in the morning, he storms into my bedroom waving a pistol. "Matt, get up! Get your gun, there's someone outside!". Well, I lived in a townhome at that time - there's ALWAYS someone outside - or a critter. Needless to say, I confiscated the gun the next day and put it in a lock box. This bozo was waving a 45 around with one up the pipe and the hammer cocked - IN MY HOUSE! AND NO ONE WAS OUT SIDE!

Now, folks who are comfortable around weapons and responsible are few and far between. You probably fall into the comfort/responsible category. But I must say, 90% of pistol owners that I know personally do not.

BTW, I believe Swass probably knows the timing to load a weapon. In fact, I'd bet 20 that he was timed on it a few times. Also, probably timed stripping and reassembling weapons.

[otiswunguy]

sorry swass, but those comments weren't directed towards you. you weren't the one who said i was ranting. anyway, enough said.

[Swass]

Uhhh...OK. Since I was the only one mentioned, I assumed the whole thing was directed towards me.

You are correct, Matt.

[Leggester]

That would be me. I don't post enough on topic to suit Otis.