moral question; breaking other peoples gear

[jdmcivicman]

first off i'm not sure if this should be in general wakeboarding discussion, but since it is about wakeboard gear i put it here.

ok 2 months ago my friend Vynce came to vegas to visit my girl and i. he brought his wakeboarding stuff and we decided to rent a boat. we got a crappy bowrider with an 175hp outboard. the boat had a wakeboard tower but it was far from a wakeboard boat.
vynce invited a guy (rigo) he met thru another friend that used to live here, rigo and his girl came out with us. vynce, another friend "darbie", my girl, me.
so there was the 6 of us. no one had wakeboarded before cept darbie and vynce. so vynce let us all use his board, bindings, and rope.
vynce's board was a 131, the bindings were med/large, and the rope was an old rope, well all of the gear was 6 years old. so i did not get up that day cause i should be on a 141 not a 131, rigo weighs about 210 and i weigh about 235 so he is about my size but his legs are tree trunks.
he wears a size 12 but his calf goes to his foot, no ankle.
rigo is trying his hardest to get up and ends up getting dragged on his belly till the rope broke. i tied the rope back together (i don't recomend this but the day was almost over and we did not want to head back yet)
rigo got super lucky and stood up, he then fell face first and did not let go of the rope till the board fell off. we pick him up and one strap on the binding broke. vynce was really bummed cause he was going riding again the next weekend and could not afford a new set. rigo told vynce "i feel bad, go check out prices and i'll buy you a new pair" so vynce and i go to sportschalet and we found the torq w/ hinge. for $200, not a basemodel or the best binding there is but his bindings that broke were almost top of the line 6 years ago. so vynce calls rigo and tells him how much and rigo says i'll call you back in an hour or so and work out how i'll get you the money.
never calls back, doesn't answer his phone, or email. vynce calls him everyday for 2 months and leaves a message " hey it's vynce just wondering what's going on, i'll call back tomorrow"
he sends a few e-mails and finaly 2 days ago rigo sends an e-mail back saying that he should not have to pay for the bindings cause they were 6 years old and that michael (me) rode them too and that he (rigo) was just the last straw that broke them.
before the bindings broke they were in pretty good condition, no rips or tears. just some scratches from being used. so my question is what should Vynce do?
should he forget about it cause it's only money.
or should he continue to bug this guy till he gives in or take him to court for the money.
now if i broke the bindings i would not have said i'll buy you new ones cause they are old ass bindings, but i would have helped out money wise on a new pair.
if the bindings were new then i would have replaced them or had them fixed.
since they are so old the company no longer makes parts to fix them.
what would you do if you were vynce?

oh and i'm not gonna say that rigo has money, cause i'm not sure of his finances, but he probably makes about 150k a year. but like i say the more money you make the more your bills are. i just wanted to point out that rigo does not work at jack in the box or something like that.

[HHI Dave]

Ok, I think I managed to absorb all of that.

My personal opinion is that Rigo should foot at least PART of the bill for a new set of bindings. If the bindings were 6 years old, I don't think he should necessarily be liable to pay the entire cost of a new set. Again, just my opinion but I think paying HALF would be reasonable.

On the other hand, Rigo has apparently demonstrated that he has no intention of paying anything. No way would it be worth it for Vynce to take him to small claims court...just not worth the time and effort for a $200 set of bindings.

I'd say that perhaps Vynce has learned a lesson about being generous with his gear. And I think that you've all learned a lesson about Rigo's true colors.

Live and learn.

BTW, I love my Torqs. Good choice.

[koltman]

Well 6 year old bindings will break and if it were my bindings I wouldn't make a big deal out of it. If I broke someone elses I'd either try and fix or pitch in for a new set.
But the worst part is Rigo didn't want to live up to his word. Now if I said I'd pay, I'd pay simple as that. Doesn't show much strength of character lieing like that.
Personally dont think its worth the headache and Vynce should drop it. Still Sh!tty though.

[jdmcivicman]

well both of you said what i am thinking.
vynce should just forget about it.
and yeah i'm not good at writing.
oh and i love the torqs too. that is what i rented the last time i went.
i think vynce is getting too involved and should just buy a new set, but i think rigo should either have chipped in for a new set or not said he was going to pay for the bindings. thanks for the input and i would like to see what others think.

[Commodore]

Okay Vynce should understand that 6 year old equipment is gonna break.

If they were mine, I wouldn't ask for $$ just because the guy was unlucky about the timing of the break, it's not his fault it's old equip.
And Vynce should know, if you let someone ride your stuff, you are taking a risk of damage, and that he should be prepared for this if it happens. ESPECIALLY old gear.

If Rigo said he would pay he should. But I bet when you came to him with some brand new gear he said porkchop that. I would have too. You're talking about replacing something that costs about $50. It doesn't matter what they cost 6 years ago. They aren't worth that now. If he wanted to get reimbursement for the bindings he should have asked for enough money to cover THOSE bindings.

It's like me wrecking my friends 15 year old BMW and then asking to foot the bill for a brand new one. Good luck with that.

I would have helped out with some cash. But by asking to pay for new gear, and Torq hinges are badass, not cheapo's, Rigo realized yall were trying to get more out of him than you should.

So take it as a learning lesson:
1) If you share, be prepared to eat some costs.
2) If you do plan on splitting costs, be fair, it's not a time to upgrade or rip-off.
3) Move on.

[dmb]

A mate once said to me that if someone were to break his gear durign riding, he wouldn't ask for reimbursement. He told me that it would just have broken the next time he rode it regardless. I think this is a really good attitude.

If it was broken due to misuse or carelessness, then I would be seeking SOME sort of reparations...

[Roger]

So between the six of you, the only board you had was Vynce's six year old setup.
You all used his equiptment. From your weight discriptions, atleast a few of you were way too big for that board and bindings. Especially a size 12 in M/L bindings. I think that was asking to break the old bindings.
You all took advantage of his equiptment and generousity. I don't think the sole responibility lies on Rigo. I think you all could be nice enough to give $20-30 to Vynce and it shouldn't hurt any one of you finacialy, but combined it would go a long way towards getting him a new pair of bindings.

[BIGMAC]

Rigo is a prick. He should pay up because he said he would. No call backs or anything? Some friend. I don't let anyone ride my gear. Period! I would keep a cheap crappy set up for friends that way your not out to much money if it breaks and if it did my friends are the type that would at least offer to pay you back or atleast pay what they could.

[kmagnuss]

-Legally, Rigo isn't obligated to pay a dime. Vynce was letting him use his property under his own supervision, during which time it was not abused or used for purposes other than wakeboarding.
-Rigo was nice enough to offer to pay for some bindings, and then you and Vynce took advantage of his generousity (sp) and went out and picked out some top of the line gear. Yes, Torq's are on the top tier of nice gear. Go try to find his 6 year old bindings for sale on eBay, and I bet you won't see a set sell for more than $40.
-When you wreck your car, the insurance company doesn't go out and replace your 1972 Vista Cruiser with a brand new 2006 model, do they? So don't expect Rigo to do it either.
-If his rope broke from somebody dragging, consider yourselves lucky, because you could have easily been mid-air and gotten seriously hurt...upon which time Rigo could sue Vynce for everything if he wanted, just for supplying him with unsafe equipment.
-Yeah, it sucks that Rigo said he was going to pay and then welched, but I bet you're not telling the whole story, and I bet he's pretty upset about replacing some bunk 6 year old gear with brand new stuff.

BTW...what bindings were they? I have a funny feeling about this one.

And the only ones of you 6 that should be riding a 131 are the girls (unless they're built like tree trunks too). Not getting up on the other hand because it's not a 141 is a sorry excuse for you sucking at wakeboarding.
-Keith

[nick@night]

ok I think that Rigo should pay what The bindings were worth at the time of the breaking, which would be about 10$ to 20$ being that they are 6 years old.

and a lesson that I thinked was learned: Upgrade your setup

[gene3x]

Just shows his character if he committed to help out with the cost. i wouldn't hound him. Just wouldn't invite him anywhere again.

[jdmcivicman]

ok first off keith when i went the next time i stood up right away cause i was on a board that fit me (143cm)
also i don't want anyone here to think i am trying to rip off rigo. i even said that if i broke them i would have chipped in some money but i'm not gonna buy him a new pair.
also keith it is the whole story unless you want the stuff that don't matter like rigo saying he's gonna kick peoples asses if we show up at his house and stuff like that.
yeah the equipment was old, but the reason it broke is cause rigo would not let go of the rope. we kept telling him to let go but he would hold on till we were dragging him 20-30ft on his belly.

i already said i think vynce should just drop it and call it a loss. rigo is not gonna pay anything, so forget it.
and i am not gonna gain anything from it so it doesn't matter to me.
i was rasied to replace or fix something if i break it. in which case i would try to find the same binding or give him what it was worth. in my opinion probably about $50. the thing is rigo agreed to buy new ones. no one said he should and vynce did not even ask him to.
i was just wondering what you guys would do if you were vynce or if you were in rigo's shoes
so far i agree with the answers.

[jdmcivicman]

oh and roger why would i give vynce 20-30 to replace something i did not break when i could have rented a board for $18 and had a good time.
instead of getting my ass kicked on a board made for 130lbs wimps/chicks
also the m/l fit my size 12 just fine. it was the fact that rigo had no ankle that made them not fit him good.

also i think the torq bindings kick ass but when they cost $200 and there are other bindings selling for almost $400 then i don't consider the torqs top of the line. but like i said they are not the base model either.

[Roger]

[wakedjs679]

Normally, Rigo should only have to pay a fraction of it. But he said he was going to pay for it so he should live up to his word and pay.

[wakedjs679]

[Foote]

I don't think Rigo owes him anything man 6 year old setup most setup's now only last 2-3 years of regular riding I definitely would not make my friends pay for new equipment it sucks but stuff happens it wasn't his fault the bindings were old.

[leviwynnyk]

You should have posted this right after it happenned. I have a couple pairs of 6 year old bindings you could have had for free as do others on this board I bet. They are really not worth more then $5, so he should just cut his losses. Rigo should shut his mouth next time too and not try to act like a buig shot saying "I'll buy you new ones" without knowing how much they cost or if he didn't plan to pay for them. I would think your friend would have been happy because now he has an excuse to get new bindings. I wouldn't be bummed at all if someone "broke" my 04 Motive 134 so I could get something new.

[jdmcivicman]

[spyd4r]

i wouldn't expect him to pay the cost of the new replacement bindings, but he aleast could flip a few bucks over..

[gene3x]

[nick@night]

hey you two smoke a peace pipe now, stop fighting

[E.J.]

I don’t care if the stuff was new, I would not expect a friend to purchase me new stuff. Things happen….whatever. If they want to replace it, great….. If not, I am not calling a bunch of times in an effort to have them do something they obviously don’t want to do.

Jesus…are we really discussing of someone’s responsibility to pay for 6 year old gear that broke in what looked to be routine use? It’s 6 years old? Probably worth $20 at most…. So if we want to be technical, the kid wearing the stuff when it broke could slide Vinny a $10 spot and we are as even as it gets….

I am still amazed that he is calling “everyday for 2 months” about something worth $20… I am about ready to send him some 6 year old bindings just to keep him from getting a telephone harassment charge.

[nick@night]

[jt09]

Rigo's a prick.

Vynce shouldn't expect Rigo to pay for anything that old that HE let him use. As in, he should have been smart enough to let him use it.

Vynce should take the stick out of his ass and stop waiting for Rigo to pay up.

He should also delete Rigo's name from his phone and never hang with him again.

[Epic]

If somebody breaks something in the normal course of use I wouldn't blame them one bit or expect anything from them. No matter who would have been wearing the bindings they would have broke so it's not fair to blame the guy that put them on, especially after they had been used probably 100 or so times already.

[bmartin]

Rigo sounds like a tool...who can't figure out how to let go of the rope??? Anyway Vynce needs to get a life and not harass someone over what might amount to $10 or $20. Yeah it would have been nice for Rigo to throw in a $20 to help Vynce pay for the use and breaking of his gear, but harassing someone over 6 yo bindings is ridiculous.

Basically if someone breaks my old stuff I wouldn't think of asking them for money. Now if they abused it or broke some new stuff in a way that wouldn't be nourmal under usual uses, I might expect some sort of reparations, but if they didn't come through, I would just evaluate whether I want to ride with them again.

[Loppy]

[J_DOGG]

That is why the first question is always "do you have gear"?

I don't share my vest or board....
I will let anyone use my handle, even though I have regretted that a few times as well.

I have a spare fat man vest, that will make you look like a Wally (that is the point) and I have an old slider board with M/L Belmont binders and no fins... you don't like it sit back in the boat and enjoy the view....

If I was the breaker, I'd give you $100 bucks and tell you to be happy....
If I was the breakee, I would not expect money in return....it's up to the breaker to show some class and give the breakee some coin for being nice...


I was playn hockey one night and forgot my helmet - nothing special Bauer with a metal cage... some dude the hour before us I know offered for me to use his, brand new CCM with half shield... I mean this things was brand new and even smelt new... If you know anything about hockey equipment you know it never smells like the day you bought it for very long....Long story short that night I was packing up my chit and noticed I didn't have the dudes helmet???? I was flipping, checked every bag in and out of that place and sure enough it was gone.....the next day I was at the pro shop purchasing a brand new CCM with shield exactly like the guy had so I could hand it to him the next week. he was like this is in better shape than when I gave it to you and I explained what happened. He almost didn't take the helmet, he felt so bad for me, I told him to take it before I cry....

We are still buds to this day and he would lend me a helmet again no questions asked....

[jdmcivicman]

[E.J.]

Maybe Rigo's debts with Jimmy Two Fingers caught up with him and he is "swimming with the fishes."

You and Vinny assume he is not answering his phone....when in fact he didn't pay Jimmy Two Fingers and had the full $20 in his wallet. He was scouring e-bay to find some 2000 Ultra Sucs when jimmy walked in and gave him the business.

Moment of silence for Rigo........

[Wakebrad]

Any 6 year old bindings couldn't be worth more than $30. Tell him to chip in $30 and call it even.

If Rigo pays $200 for a new pair of bindings he is getting the shaft. Vynce should foot the bill if not only because he spells his name with with a y.

[jdmcivicman]

[smokedog2]

Reminds me of going to the range with my now father in law. He said he'd pay for the ammo and broke out a $20.

No, I did not say gotcha and squeeze for the $250 we through down range that day.

SD2

[Wakebrad]