Design input request - safety release

[boarditup]

With the frequent number of injuries, including Soven's, that occur because the rope or handle is around a part of the body in a fall, I decided to work on a design for a release for wakeboarding. I started with the KW Show Ski Trick Release - the owner is a friend of mine. We then used my MC X-9 tower as the basis for the design. The release mounts to where the rope goes on the towing bit. A picture is at:

http://www.boarditup.com/shop/item.asp?itemid=350&catid=9

Sorry, I could not upload the image to the board here.

There is another release that the hydrofoilers use that is much more complex and about double the price, but allows for a max set of pull before it releases. Mine depends on a alert observer to be the release operator. You simply pull on a tag line and the rope is instantly released. Hopefully, before you hit the water and get the big tug from the boat. From my former military and law enforcement background, I know it does not take a lot of force to wreck a shoulder, elbow, or wrist at the right angle.

Wakeboarding is only fun if you can still do it tomorrow....

If you can offer some feedback, please post here or e-mail me at rider@boarditup.com. I really appreciate all suggestions.

[LFADAM]

sounds good but how are you supposed to know when to pull it? (without being too late) Nobody wants to ruin a good save by not having the rope attached when you clear out of your spray

[jpminter]

Yeah, it'd be too expensive too I'm sure. Those types of injuries are rare and it's not like riders get dragged behind boats for a while after they've fallen if they get wrapped. Everything usually happens very fast. An automatic release might be good but how are you going to determine the release point? If people edge correctly, they are putting a lot of tension on the rope. This could automatically release it too soon.

[boarditup]

The release operator has to be able to judge the fall. Assume you are trying a new trick with a decent possiblity of getting wrapped, are wrapped, etc. You tell your buddy what you want. This design won't release if you don't pull the trigger.

As for edging - a hard cut can put over 600 lbs on the rope. At 600 lbs, your body part is damaged. You can look at a lot of photos on this site of arms bruised by putting the arm through the handle on a fall.

I would rather have a premature release while falling than an injury. This is not for everyone, only those interested in a solid attempt to prevent this kind of injury.

Please take a hard look at the design and let me know what you think.

[chavez]

boarditup, you need to talk to lcap.

[option21105]

it would sorta be a pain in the ass you would have to place the line back on everytime anyone went down...that would sorta suck

[Damon]

Now I hate criticizing people's products, especially little guys because I know there is a lot of work that goes into something like that, it is awesome to see someone stepping up and giving things a shot.

That being said... I'm not sure if this will sell well, you're making a product that mostly protects against bruises, maybe in an extreme case, a lost arm? I don't know, I've never seen a rope related injury. Now if you wanted to make big bucks, develop a binding that releases on a hard impact, like skis... easier said then done, I know.

[jpminter]

option21105, I was about to bring up that point.

I think I would just rather get wrapped up in the rope once in my life rather than deal with this release mechanism every time I fall, lol. And then there's the cost.

[boarditup]

You would only release the rope when someone does not let go of the handle while falling. Most of the time you do naturally. When you don't, someone can do it for you. In over 20 years of riding, I have only done this twice and have only one scar.

For some riding, you may not need the release. However, spins, wraps, and handle passes are how most people end up in this kind of trouble.

[scott a]

ive seen some rope related injuries, and they arent pretty. that doesnt mean, however, that there is much of anything that can be done to stop it. its a necessary evil to allow the rope to be tight so that you can put tension on the line when cutting into the wake.

having a manual release that the observer can pull to release the line wont solve anything. you simply cannot react in time to stop any injuries. if you COULD react in time, then wouldnt the rider just avoid the injury on their own?

[craig1989]

I think the idea is great, however I can't really see how an observer would be able to release the handle quick enough. I've seen and taken some falls where the handle has got caught up and it just rips out of where ever it was trapped. I dont think the observer would be able to see what is happening and release it prior to the handle forcing it's way out. However I could see it working well for practicing tricks then releasing the rope prior to landing/crashing... but that wouldn't give you the chance to see if you would have actually made it.

[jpminter]

[Wakebrad]

I had a rope related injury 3 years ago. There was nothing that could have been done to prevent it. It happened so quickly. Stuck my arm through the handle on an ollie bs 180.

Edit:
Here it is:

[wake1ghuth]

Boarditup:

I think the idea is solid… as long as you take into consideration that this type of product will never be a top seller or a product that’s very marketable.

I tore my left bicep during an invert off of a double up about three years ago. I got inverted and lost my bearing so I dropped the rope. Big Mistake! As I came down to dive into the water my arm went right through the handle up to my armpit… out came the slack and my arm all but tore off. It dislocated my arm, tore my bicep, and stretched out all my arteries.

Now I’m hesitant to try new inverts… and I’m hesitant to try anything off of a double up.
I’m afraid that your only customers would be people like me, who are looking for an extra safety net to give them a little more courage when getting back on the horse after a bad accident. Products like these are very valiant attempts at solving a real problem but they usually end up being more like charity work. I’m afraid factories wouldn’t go into manufacturing phase on such a limited unit minimum.

Your response to the “How would you know when to pull it” question was good.

I would buy it in a heartbeat and every time I was going to try something off the double up, our spotter would be ready to drop the line at the first sign of trouble… Say if I let go of the rope before hitting the water. Or if I came down directly on top of the handle… I’ve seen Parks loose the handle on a big off axis backside 180 and his head almost went through the handle.

It will only work for certain specific invert related situations. Which further limits its usability. Although if you were dragging from an arm behind the boat… even though the damage is already done… a release would still put an end to the damage faster than trying to stop the boat.

[boarditup]

The operation of the release is proven in trick skiing, show skiing, and kneeboarding where they are required for tournament use. Trick skiing is a lot closer to the water and the falls are just as fast and perhaps faster because they are only inches off the wake for many ticks. They are also attached to the rope by the foot and no hand is on the handle. Show skiing involves wakeboarding, ski jumps, pyramids, skiing with harnesses around the waist and other dangerous activities. The releases have worked very well and have prevented a lot of injuries. This is unique because it is made to be used on towers without any modifications to the tower and the release can be operated by a seated observer well below the tower.

There will be a learning curve by observers. There is no intutive release that will automatically release the rope before your injury. The best we can do is a way to release the rope before you get into trouble or you get dragged.

This is a great disucssion, but I was really looking for design input. The operation will be proven or disproven as the tower safety releases are put into actual use.

As far as actual use goes, the presence of the release will likely result in a few blown tricks when the operator believes you to be in trouble and you may have been able to pull it out. At least you get to try the trick again without a rope injury.

[wake1ghuth]

Wakebrads situation isn't something that this product would attempt to correct. When pitching a product like this you would need to focus on more predictable situations. An ollie BS 180 is to common... to Repetitive... It's not something you would expect to catch an arm on.... You just have to take those accidents as an inherent risk of wakeboarding. Focus on the accidents like mine... the ones that are slightly more preventable... Now do you still think there are enough "Preventable accidents to make a product like this.... Sellable???

[Se7en]

What happened to Soven?

[lcap]

Thanks Chavez for the heads up!

boarditup

I think it's an absoultely necessary addition to the sport. Guys that are just now starting to W2W may not see a value in it but if they ever progress, they will eventually wish the bindings released.

The worst injury is the fracture of the Talus. You break it and you are fu cked! I almost lost my foot initially to compartment syndrome, could have died from that also. Then if the blood supply is damaged during the rotational fracture, time for a complete ankle fusion. Ankle replacements are not far enough along for anyone under 65 to have them.

When the ankle is fused forget ALL sports. It's locked at a 90 degree angle. If the blood supply (three veins) isn't disrupted the joint is completely wasted in this fracture. So then it's only a matter of time before you have it fused. And that depends on how much you can suck up on a daily basis.

I have to walk around the house a few times in the morning to get my ankle moving enough to get in the shower. I was on two different long term chronic pain medications. I've had four surgeries. I've almost become anerexic (sp) because I think every additional lb I put on will take a day away from me walking.

This injury is happening all the time. Google Snowboarders Talus, you'll be surprised at how frequent it is.

I have a prototype already built but I ran out of time and picked up 1,000 other projects. I'd be happy to send the prototype to you so you can work on the design.

Let me know, I'd like to see it built. I did the market research, the bio mechanics studies and consulted with the attornies for liabilities. I know it sounds lame but I really am too busy to dedicate much time to it. The prototype works fantastic.

[boarditup]

I know this is not a money maker. The production is by a retired metalworker who spends about 10 hours a week in his shop. I do think it is a valuable product for some people, but not all. This is not a get-rich for me. This is not my day-job.

I disagree that nothing could be done in the ollie 180. It is history, no way to know. Maybe, maybe not. I do know that safety releases work with other towed watersports, so why not wakeboarding? Will it work in every circumstance? No. Will it prevent all injuries? No. I have gone 20 years plus without a serious injury. However, the next time I ride may be my last.

Soven nearly broke his wrist when a handle pass generated a loop in the rope and he stuck his hand through it. He will recover, but will have some down time. A loop in a working line is called a bight (pronounced bite, go figure).

[Darin]

here

[matt1808]

like you said you would have to release it at the first sign of a fall. That would get real annoying hooking it back up, and you wouldn't be able to slide out of near falls. It would be effective at preventing injuries though.

[QNev]

If you have a really careful spotter it may be useful, otherwise just that little delay could do its job to your arm.

[Darin]

You would have to do it for every fall. You wouldn't know if you need to or not.

[jpminter]

I think you're wasting your time with this idea...

[boarditup]

Tried the revised prototype and it fits like a glove. Saturday I try it out and see how well it works on the tower in actual use.

Just as in trick skiing, you don't have to release it for every fall. Most experienced riders can tell whether you will clear the rope or not. If questionable or a definate no, pull the trigger.

This is not for everyone. Probably only 1-2% of the total market at best. I think it will get a following for training runs teaching spins, though.

[Catch This Wake]

I see the picture but I dont understand how it works. lol

But anyways I think its a good idea though.

[boarditup]

The polished curved piece is the pin. You put the rope loop over this pin. The brushed lever then engages the pin. The lever has a roller so there is no friction at max rope tension and is held in place with a spring. The black rope is attached to the lever and is kept short with a loop on the end. A tag line rope is then attached to this loop that the release operator/observer holds on to. When you need to release the tow rope, pull on the tag line and the lever will disengage the pin. The tow rope is released instantly.

The tower safety release bolts onto the delron rope swivel and swivels just like the tow rope. The way the black rope is routed through the swivel makes it possible to release the rope way out in the flats. The safety release can be removed or mounted in about 30 seconds. Mine uses allens (1/4"), but you can use thumbscrews just as well.

The brushed finish matches the Mastercraft tower. It is constructed of aluminum and SS with a rubber stopper so the pin does not bang on the aluminum frame when released.

[Catch This Wake]

looks cool. at least I understand it now.

I'm assuming the one in the picture is for a pylon. It the tower model gonna look much different??

[boarditup]

That is the prototype. It has been machined to fit the tower mount. The production models will be 1/4" longer to allow for more room between the black rope and the base of the towing bit. The finish and appearance will be the same. I tried to make it look like a factory part of the boat.

[King of the Tigers]

I think it's a great idea. I wish I could offer some more constructive advice but I'm not an engineer guy. But I would really want one for my boat. I've stuck my arm through the handle once. It wasn't bad but I did get some bruising and pain for a little while. The hardest thing would be to get someone who would pay enough attention to the rider. I usually drive and everyone else on my boat is usually clueless.

But again I would want one. I can't say I'd spend the money, becasue I'm a starving student, but I think it would give me a little more edge as far as knowing I have something else to save me.

[Wakebrad]

So every time you pull it you have to go pick up the rope in the water and put it back on the tower? That's a hassle. Also it's tough to see a rope dangling in the water I bet you run the risk of running over it on accident.

[CHiLi DaWg]

My comment is this.

Most of the people who really need something like that are just learning
the before mentioned tricks. The average spotter will more than likely
release too early, or not at all. The show skiers could use it, because
they ride together all the time, and know what someone is capable of,
and generally knows what tricks will be in their run. Free riders just go
out and do their thing. How many times have you been spotting and your
rider just tried to pull a new trick out of his a$$?

lcap, a releasable binding would be awesome! Might help cut back
on some headaches Hope to hear more about it someday.

[Catch This Wake]

As far a releasable bindings. I don't know about your boots but if I take really hard falls my feet do come out. Of course there are the occsional falls where you head rings but that just comes with the sport.

[brinks]

Straight line already makes a handle designed to break apart when enough pressure is applied. I have seen it work multiple times when someone has put there arm through the handle.

[pilot_ryder]

seems like a good idea