getting more pop

patrick c · Newbie Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 19 City: abilene

Alright i have a 2005 132 hyperlite byerly. But it feels like i'm just going wake to wake and getting no height and when i do the nose of the board flyes up i'm trying the back roll again and this time i want more pop.
Any suggestions?

toughnuts88 · Newbie Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 47 City: middleton

just keep the line tight man thats all i know but it works i am behind a 88 cheetah and no pylon stock and i can get about 5to 9 ft of air easy

sorry its not much but it is all about the tech

J_DOGG · Posted: May 24, 2006 10:28 am Post subject:

If you have no height you have no progressive edge....period... board, boat, what ever, it don't matter....

I can do backrolls off the back of a ranger bass boat.

patrick c · Newbie Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 19 City: abilene

no pregressive edge thats like your cut right? Well if it is i am cutting really hard and clear the wake its just there is really no height to it.

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

patrick c, just because you are getting into the flats doesn't mean you are progressively edging. All it means is you are hocking it in at the wake and hitting the wake with enough speed that even if you only get 1 foot of air you will clear the wake.

The Pop comes from loading the line, this is where you gradually increase the tension in the line. Cut out wide and then slowly let the boat start to pull you back towards the wake, as it does slowly start to lean back on your heels against the boat (slowly being the key word!), you should be leaning back on your heels more and more as you approach the wake. This will put the board on it's edge, you want to hold this edge as you go up the wake and still have the board on it's edge at the top of the wake, (as I have said in previous posts, imagine you are trying to show the graphics on the bottom of your board to the people in the boat, this will help you stay on edge). In summary, when you reach the top of the wake you should be leaning back with masses of tension in the line and your board on it's edge in the water (this last point is the most important, if you load the line well and then flatten your board at the top of the wake you will undo all the good work, MAKE SURE YOUR BOARD IS ON ITS EDGE!!!)

Imagine that the path your board is making is a smooth quarter pipe shape and not a sharp 90 degree angle which is what I imagine is happening at the moment.

If you do all this you may find at first that you don't get the distance you have been getting but I guarantee you will be getting a lot more height. Then start moving further out and as you load the line better and better you will start to have the speed at the top of the wake to get into the flats with a stack of height as well.

Good luck.

drdubie · Outlaw Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 161 City: Lucedale, MS

Rocket, you need to do an instructional video. You explained that better than anyone I have ever herd. I am going to try to remember it this weakend.

mikeakatex5 · Newbie Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 21 City: NOR*CAL

Rocket, ditto what drdubie, said

onesickwake · Outlaw Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 106

Rocket--Great explanation!

One question though...what do you mean by:

"Imagine that the path your board is making is a smooth quarter pipe shape and not a sharp 90 degree angle which is what I imagine is happening at the moment."

Thanks!

j-robe · Newbie Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 7

onesick wake,

If you have any wake videos to watch, they will show some camera angles from a chase boat, and from certain viewpoints, the riders edge will carve a pathway into the water that makes the shape of the parabola. When the rider hits the wake they are at the maximum point. You may have heard or read that a progressive edge is similar to a pendulum swinging, and this a good visual for that concept.

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

drdubie, mikeakatex5, cheers guys. How did it go this weekend?

onesickwake, I was refering to the path you make with your board from your start point, 20 feet or so outside the wake, to the top of the wake. There is a tendancy when you start boarding to go 20 feet outside of the wake and then just turn straight at the wake really sharply in order to build up speed i.e. the 90 degree angle I mentioned (this is wrong and will not work, it may get you a lot of speed but you will get no pop off the wake). The path should be a very gradual arch as you start to lean more and more against the boat, this is how you will "load the line" and it is this that is a "progressive edge".

Hope this is a bit clearer?

onesickwake · Outlaw Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 106

Should you attack the wake coming in at 90-degrees to the wake or more like 45-degrees. I find that when I hit the wake at the 90-degree angle, I get pulled more by the boat and lose my balance because I am not keeping my momentum in the direction of the boat. I think that a 45-degree angle would keep my momentum int the direction of the boat.

Thanks to all!

drdubie · Outlaw Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 161 City: Lucedale, MS

It worked great! Never got that much air before. Thanks a lot. Very Happy

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

onesickwake, As you hit the top of the wake your board should be at 90 degrees to the way the boat is pointing (Probably about 80 degrees in practice but you get the idea).

You are probably getting pulled over because the handle is away froom your body. As you ride up the wake keep the handle in close to your hips. If the handle is up high by your chest this raises your centre of gravity/pull and will pull you over a lot easier. If the handle is out away from your body there will be no give in your arms and again this will pull you off balance, keep the handle in close to your body and your arms can pull slightly away from your body on landing and act like shock absorbers.

In summary try and keep the handle in tight to your hip and it should improve your balance massively.

(This is all assuming you are staying on edge through the jump as you will also lose your balance if you flatten off at the top of the wake)

Like I said in another post just now, it's still early here in the UK and I'm tired so I hope this makes sense!

drdubie, I'm pleased to hear that, it makes posting worth while!

mikeakatex5 · Newbie Joined: 10 May 2006 Posts: 21 City: NOR*CAL

I was at the delta last weekend and was goin W2W consistantly w/ some good pop, Rocket, you need to write some books or publish some of this stuff thanx man

mcmarbles · Newbie Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 44

Is it more important to focus on your boards edge rather than the ropes tension in your hands?? I think I try to create more edge by pulling on the rope rather than edging hard and through the wake and because of that, I'm not getting the pop or the height that I want. Any ideas??

tangles · Newbie Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 21 City: Bush

mcmarbles
I think it is more important to focus on a continuous smooth edge to the very top of the wake rather then pulling on the rope.
My mate is a nut job and we got him last month for the first time on a wakeboard. On his first ride he would cut right out and then abruptly turn and charge at the wake like a slalom skier going for a bouy. He took his jumps into the flats but only cleared the water by half a meter.
This is the advivce i was told a what i gave him.
think of your mellowest softest turn as 1 and as the edge increases so does the number so that 10 is your strongest most agressive edge where like as Rocket says "imagine you are trying to show the graphics on the bottom of your board to the people in the boat"
what you do is carve out of the wake and just hang there intill tension is regained in the rope. Now you SLOWLY count your edges from 1 to 10. the key is to slowly count to 10 you don't want to rush to 10 you want to wait until the rope regains tension keep it low against your hips and then SLOWLY count to 10. you want to reach 10 as you hit start of the wakes ramp and hold it until you reach the very top of the lip.
i will try to get some pictures for you.

tangles · Newbie Joined: 31 Jan 2006 Posts: 21 City: Bush

Here are the pictures whatch how he edges in

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

mcmarbles, If you focus on the edging as detailed above the tension in the line will happen automatically. As long as you are keeping the handle in at your hips and progressively edging in to the wake you can almost forget about the rope, it will take care of itself.

Concentrate on the edging and most importantly on holding that edge through the top of the wake and you will find the pop comes.

mikeakatex5, cheers dude. Glad to help.

hyyperlitesonofabitch · Outlaw Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 132 City: Seneca

just stand tall at the wake for maximum pop. try standing at different places through the wake, and this will let you feel how the wake will react to your board/ speed/ weight/ etc.

onesickwake · Outlaw Joined: 22 Aug 2003 Posts: 106

When you are building your progressive edge, do you lean back against the rope or squat down like you are sitting in a chair? Most of the professional wakeboarders look like they are squatting down with their knees bent. I have seen others look like they were standing tall and just leaning against the rope. I guess that either way will work as long as you edge through the wake.

Thanks.

hyyperlitesonofabitch · Outlaw Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 132 City: Seneca

jed8706 · Newbie Joined: 12 Jun 2006 Posts: 1

Ok...when working on your progressive edge, when u cut back towards the wake (heel side) start slowly at first, then cut HARD back towards the wake, act like your trying to sit on the water, just keep digging that bottom edge into the water...then, when you get to the wake, (this is the most important part of the jump, timing is essential) right before you hit the wake, stand up and straightn your legs, you will get massive air, and also, when your in the air KEEP THE ROPE NEXT TO YOUR BODY...if you dont, you will lose your balance and chances are you wont land the jump....do that and i gaurantee you you'll get massive air....peace

hyyperlitesonofabitch · Outlaw Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 132 City: Seneca

panhead · Outlaw Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 109 City: Youngstown

Alright, I have been following this post for a little while and must admit it has helped alot. I have one question though, I was watching the book DVD and it almost seems like they are saying to ollie when yo get to the crest of the wake.
I have a decent progressive edge and know that when I do not clear the wake it is because I have a tendancy to chicken out and not stand as tall as I should and let my knees absorb some of the pop, when I stand tall I definitely feel the pop and am getting better. Question is should I be trying to ollie at the top or just standing tall? I get a good 2+ feet of air with an ollie and feel that I am getting good pop when I don't chicken out.
Another question I have is when I edge into the wake I hit it at about 45 degrees and pop well and ride nicely down the other side, if I want to go out into the flats should I just increase my angle at the wake? (in other words get more agressive with my edge as I get closer to the wake).
I had a problem with pop all last season but after reading this post I feel I have made more progress my first 5 times out this year. Edging has improved dramatically. Just wanted to say thank you very much for all of the fantastic advise. It is great to see so many people willing to help.

Rocket · Outlaw Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 127

panhead, do not ollie at the top of the wake. All this will do is absorb all of the pop. Think about when you go off a jump on a bmx when you were a kid, you didn't do a bunny hop at the top of the ramp you just pushed up a bit and let the ramp shoot you off high. It is similiar on a wake, it is just a ramp. As you reach the bottom of teh wake start to straighten your legs and smoothly straighten your legs all the way up the wake until at the top of the wake your legs should be straight. As I said on another thread, make sure your board is still on it's edge, just because everyone says "stand tall" this does not mean stand up straight as if you were on land, this will result in the board being flat on the water and will lose all your pop. When you straighten your legs you should still be leaning back against the boat so that your board is on it's edge all the way through teh wake.

Don't bottle it, falls hurt a lot more when you don't commit to a trick and that includes wake jumps. Keep the handle in tight and to your hip and the landing should be ok.

As I said further up this post, if you edge well and progressively towards the wake you should be hitting the wake at as jnear to 90 degrees as possible. This is how you will get the required speed and will also get the pop. It is all part of the technique so I would not recommend starting slowly with hitting the wake at 45 degrees, this would imply that your approach is incorrect. Start with the right approach and the good pop and distance will come.

I hope this is of help but as always let me know if it isn't.

panhead · Outlaw Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 109 City: Youngstown

Rocket, Thanks for the advise. I do not ollie at the wake I was just curious as it seemed like that was what they were saying in the book. I didn't figure 45deg was a bad idea to start with as I have seen alot of video where the pros seem to hit it about that angle when the are only trying to come down the other side they seem to increase the angle when they want to go further out into the flats.
I understand the stand tall and keep the board on edge theory. This got me to thinking if the board is on edge and you stand tall while keeping the board on edge are you not actually increasing line load because being on edge has you leaning away from the boat in a semi squatted position then when you extend your body to stand tall while still on edge you are actually pulling even harder in your tug-o-war with the boat?
Went out last night and got some video, after watching myself I have come to 2 conclusions:
1. I might come off edge a bit at the wake but but not to the point of flattening out just enough to rob me of some pop.
2. I do not stand completely tall (I think this is the bigger of my issues).
I will post some video tonight, let me know what you see.
I am riding 60' at approx. 22mph behind an unweighted late 70's ski boat.
I know the wake is small but do not view that as an excuse as I have seen people get great pop out of the same boat. For the record I am relatively large (weight wise) 5'11" 200lbs and do not se that as any type of excuse just a reason my form has to be better than most.

Good new is after following some tips I went W2W consistently now I I need to pop it up.

Thanks for all the help, that is one of the things I love about the wakeboarding community, although the egos can be large, everyone seems to be more than willing to help progress everyones rider ability. I get almost as big a rush watching complete newbies get up for the first as I do riding (especially the kids).

Again thanks.

panhead · Outlaw Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 109 City: Youngstown

Alright, after reviewing some video last night, I have come to a couple of cnclusions:
1. I am definitely not standing tall enough at the wake.
2. I am holding the handle too high.
3. I am letting my shoulders get in front of my hips.

Here is the video any input would be appreciated.
http://www.wakepics.com/out.php/wakeboarding-photos-video.mov?i=19369&h=185a5d846afe0a5f9d739b303310bb8f

GuitsBoy · Posted: Jun 29, 2006 9:09 am Post subject:

Dont forget body position for strong edging... belly up. This was my problem in the beginning. I had teh progressive edge, I stood tall at teh wake, but because i was bent in the sitting position as i was edging, all the pop was absorbed by the bend in my waist. I couldnt get more than 3 or maybe 4 feet on a fairly stout wake. Once I started to make a conscious decision to keep my belly up (almost feels like arching your back) the pop is much stronger. The strong body position will promote better edging, which will help you load the line better which will produce killer pop. When you hit the wake, you might feel like youre leaning back further than normal and may take a few tries before you get used to the feeling, but trust me, belly up is where its at.

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

GuitsBoy · Posted: Jun 30, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject:

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

I use that term because it's what is used in the wakeboarding DVD "The Book". Using standard terminology helps people understand and explain how to do tricks. Most people will (and should) learn how to edge in the TALL position. After beginners can land W2W, and have a good progressive edge they can start to approach in the SEATED position to get a more straight up pop. Wakeboarders need to learn all three approach positions becuase different approaches are used for different tricks.

GuitsBoy · Posted: Jun 30, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject:

HHI Dave · Posted: Jul 01, 2006 1:48 pm Post subject:

This is probably the most informative thread I've read in this forum. Thanks for all of the great tips (especially Rocket).

Can't wait to get out tomorrow and try to put some these tips to the test. Cool

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

criswb · Soul Rider Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 310 City: Guayaquil

Im not sure, but I thought a more knee bent approach meant less line tension which is why it is the best approach for handle pass moves.. am i wrong?

great thread... I think I need to work on the belly up thing and I def need to straighten my legs more at the wake...