Concerns for a Friend

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

This girl I was 'talking to' told me today she spent the weekend in the hospital after a guy friend roughed her up. She is all bruised and had a concussion. I'm not the hero type and I don't think that it would be right for me to ask her out anymore. Kind of the hey you just got beat up, will you go out with me, I'm a nice guy thing. She says it was just a misunderstanding and that things wouldn't have been so bad but she's fragile. My question is more along the lines of how do I help her realize what happened was wrong and that she doesn't have to accept this treatment. I don't really know her that well so my approach has to be tactful.

otiswunguy · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 871 City: Sammamish

go slap that mofo around a little and see how he likes it. violence is for people who dont have the words to express how they feel.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I'm over 18 so smaking the fool around has problems with the Law. I figure if she wanted the law involved that's her deal. I want to help her to break the train of thought that battered women tend to get. Help her realize that no misunderstanding justifies a concussion.

criminally_minded · Posted: Apr 28, 2003 11:36 pm Post subject:

Firstly, that is f*cked up.

Secondly, (I can't say this for sure) but I think you will find this girl knows that what happened is wrong, but she is scared of what will happen if she speaks out, either to her or the guy. There is now way that someone can not know in this day and age that abuse is wrong.

I am assuming she is not involved with this guy, because you said you were going to ask her out, but I might be wrong. If she is, you are going to have to tread very carefully. If not then you still have to be tactful, but you have more room to move. First thing I would do is say to her that if you ever see her this way again, you're calling the cops. This will let her know that someone cares about her. Again the way you do this depends on the involvement she has with captain scumbag. He is more likely to try and kick your arse if he thinks she 'belongs' to him.

Where you go from there is beyond me. Just find out how big this guy is!

otiswunguy · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 871 City: Sammamish

a)if the cops show up just explain how he hit her and they will be on your side. he will get domestic violence charges against him. she will hate you but in the long run she will be for the better.
b)take advantage of the situation and swoop. show her how a real man treats a woman and help her to forget about his dumby wumby. who cares if you are being the good guy and she falls for it. there is nothing wrong with being a good guy.
c) tell her she deserved it and that she was being a c**t. then say she better watch how she looks at you or you will slap her. J\K ladies no need to gang up and kick my butt.

Aubs · Motorboat Queen Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9167

criminal has the right idea... she needs help
ive gotta go to school - but i'll voice my opinion later.. lol

Dragonlady8 · Guest

Date rape isn't an easy thing to prosecute nor is domestic violence, especially if there were drugs or alcohol involved. There are something you can suggest, that's only if she is receptive to your comments ( counselling, support groups, .....) Getting involved in situations as such may reek havoc in your own life.
The other issue is how many other females has this guy also "roughed up"? If there has been a pattern then this guy needs to be stopped.
Sounds like she may have some issues with self-esteem as well.

Otis~ Your last comment was uncalled for. You may find humor in this, I don't care if you were "kidding".

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

Try to get her to go to the police.

Phantom,
Is it really that hard after someone has gone to the hospital? I would think that it would be easy for the police to do something if someone went to hospital. How can they claim self-defense when they have no marks? If so, that sucks, cops should be able to nail people that beat women.

I do know it is pretty easy to get a restraining order, try to get her to start with that. You need to make her feel safe if she turns this punk in.

Nick
________
Mercedes-Benz M100 Engine

Leggester · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 5:04 am Post subject:

Yes, it's very hard. I think phantom is basically on track.

Tough as it is to say, Norcal, you should probably stay away from her. If not, you've made the choice to complicate your life if she indeed is attracted to that kind of fella.

Here's the test. If she sees him again, you should run away as fast as you can. It's all well and good to try and help someone, but there's situations you are not qualified to handle.

It's a hard thing having your eyes opened to the real world like this. Hope all goes well for you.

Dees · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 7:27 am Post subject:

otiswunguy, I should kick you a$$ just for saying that. punk bitCh

Rocko · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 7:30 am Post subject:

baggage. run and hide is my advice.

Grouch · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 7:30 am Post subject:

Kick his ass, rough him up and give him a concussion. Evil or Very Mad

SupraBoarder · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 7:52 am Post subject:

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Yeah I figure I'm pretty much done with her but I'd like to get her help. There's no need for me to complicate the situation by adding more violence. I think I'll take phantom and leggesters advice and just stay away from the situation.

otiswunguy · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 871 City: Sammamish

yes it was hypocritical and also very sarcastic. my REAL belief is that violence is for people who arent educated enough to express their anger with words, so they resort to caveman mentality domestic violence. how could you ever hit someone you care about? he is trying to make her act like he wants her to act rather than letting her be the person she was when they met. this is most likely something that he was taught while growing up. i would guess parents or lack of could be to blame. either way like it has been stated above, the girl sounds like she actually thinks it is partly her fault. very sad and it wont get better probably worse. were drugs involved. that could be another factor. the best way to get the girl away from that freak is to give her a better situation to move on too. if that isn't something that you want then i suggest you either let her figure her own way out or call the police and alert them to the situation. the police could probably make it look like the hospitol called them. this might be enough of a reality check for them but i doubt it. last thing i would do is involve yourself directly. its a no win situation. kicking his ass wont help. he might just come back with a gun and shoot you or her. also you would reduce yourself to his level. it would be worth checking into whether or not he has any prior violent crimes on his record. if he does it would be very easy to get him locked up and the state will put no contact orders on both of them. that usually solves the problem. at that point drug and alcohol evaluations will be done and lots of probation. if you need to find out his criminal record and the local police wont help you can e-mail me and i will tell you a few other routes you can go or get the info for you myself.
DEES AND PHANTOM WHY DON'T YOU LIGHTEN UP. i just think it is ironic that any girl would put up with that so i made a comment about treating her how she is used to being treated hoping that that would put things in perspective a little. i bet he talks to her like that and she probably takes it. obviously neither of you would put up with it so why does she. the situation is pretty black and white as i see it. she can obviously do better than him but needs motivation. i would be that friend that steps up and watches out for her even if it meant we wouldn't be friends anymore. sorry you guys dont get my dry sense of humor. ill try to refrain from comments that are jokes but could offend you. i understand this situation better than you would imagine so trust that i am on the same side as you guys here. Crying or Very sad

DRAGON88 · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 11:57 am Post subject:

Norcal, first i back up phantom and jedster, stay away. second did she come from a battered home? if so then she is probably attracted to a-hole abusive guys. the best thing for her would be a bunch of therapy.

honestly it helps allot, i was roughed up a bit when i was younger (nothing serious got hit a bunch whith wooden spoons and stuff like that) and therapy has really helped me...

allways found it intersting how the abused eventually abuse them selfs. (my mother came from a very broken home, my grandfather was a rageing alchohalic (sp) and would beat the liveing crap out of her (and my grand mother) for absolutely no reason... a big 4 ton concrete wall toppled onto his forklift and was squished. sorta proves carma exists...

wakeriderof87 · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 12:19 pm Post subject:

It's sad taht ppl do that for whatever reson. I think you should try to get help in any way possible. DRAGON88, i'm really sorry about that, i'm glad you seeked help and found a way out.

BillJ · Posted: Apr 29, 2003 7:22 pm Post subject:

koltman · Addict Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 902 City: Sydney/Orlando

Before you go in there and try and help her (which you should) you should find someone who has dealed with a situation like this before, that way you two can talk together and find the best solution. What I've seen work in some occations is having someone who has been previosly in the same situation and have her and the persons just talk it out. Also look up help lines and stuff, they can give you good professional advice. Professional advice is a good thing, dealing with someone in such a mental state can be very tricky, and you have to be delicate. and you have to get her to accept the fact that she was abused before you or the authorities can start to prosicute the guy. But I wouldn't get to involed in the situation, but deffinetly get her on the right track and try and keep her on it.

jason_ssr · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 5:43 am Post subject:

Dragon made me think of another interesting thought about abuse. Do you guys think the definition of abuse is changing? Dragon, not to make light of your situation, but when I read your post I thought, is that abuse? In my generation, spanking with a belt was very common-place punishment, and it was pretty standard in many households. In my fathers generation, the wooden spoon was very common. As a child I used to watch old shows where kids were threatened with wood spoons, and it seemed like it was the norm for discipline. I also used to get "pops" at school! I actually had a paddle broken across my butt!! I didnt feel abused at all. I did the crime, and took the punishment. However, today that man would have been charged with abuse, sued, and ripped in the media. I talk to many people today who say they dont even spank their children! I ask why, and they say, "all it takes are some rosy buttcheeks to alert someone to abuse and they can be taken away. Has our definition of abuse become too broad? Man, how times have changed...

otiswunguy · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 871 City: Sammamish

no doubt. i got my butt paddled in junior high. man that crap hurt but i turned out all right. kids have it pretty easy these days but that could be why some people think it is okay to hit.

Troy · Criminal Joined: 16 Apr 2003 Posts: 79 City: Nor Cal

Hey Nor*Cal,
Abuse of any kind is disturbing and obviously brings out lots of emotion. My first reaction was the same as some of the others; go and kick some a$$. But that doesen't work on so many levels. If you're in Sacramento there is an organization with a great rep that deals with this issue. Its called WEAVE (Women Escaping a Violent Environment). Here is a link to their web site http://www.weaveinc.org/ Check them out yourself, or point your friend in that direction. Good luck!

ohsix · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 6:30 am Post subject:

i got my ass paddled at school in 9th grade that was only 4 years ago. and when mom punished me it was the first thing she could find. sometimes a belt sometimes a hanger. i never thought of it as abuse though.

Swass · Guest

IMO, any form of physical punishment is abuse. I have not, nor will I EVER strike my child.

Physical punishment teaches children that violence is an acceptable means of conflict resolution. I will not rule by intimidation.

"when mom punished me it was the first thing she could find. sometimes a belt sometimes a hanger. i never thought of it as abuse though." That's my point exactly. Here's a future dad who thinks it's OK to hit a kid with a HANGER!

ohsix · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 7:09 am Post subject:

how do you punish your kid swass? give him a timeout?
you can usually tell which kids get spankings and which kids get timeouts by the way they behave.

also i will more than likely never hit my kid with a hanger. i think my mom only did that because she couldnt hurt me with her hand alone.

i guess it's all a matter of opinion though.

Swass · Guest

Sometimes he gets a timeout. More often, he's punished by taking away something: toys, cartoon privileges, etc.

If I really want to get to him, I tell him I won't play with him (he has to play by himself). That really bothers him, because I make it a point to play whatever he wants to do for at least an hour each day. Or I won't let him wear this favorite Power Rangers PJs. That's another doosey.

Physical punishment is the easy way out. The others, while much more effective, actually take time, effort and a bit of forethought. "i think my mom only did that because she couldnt hurt me with her hand alone." I DON'T WANT TO HURT MY CHILD! Why would I want to inflict pain on my boy?

Yeah, you can usually tell. I've actually seen kids cower in fear when the parent raised their hand. I've seen dogs treated better.

jason_ssr · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 8:04 am Post subject:

I agree Wes. I believe spanking to be a very acceptable punishment, but yes it has common sense guidelines. Behavior is in large partion a product of fear. No Im not saying children should "live in fear", but they should fear the consequences of a known misdeed. Kids do not fear positive reinforcement or timeout. The punishment should deter the unwanted behavior, not start the evaluation process of "is kicking my my kid bro right now worth a 5 min timeout?" Maybe it is, but it is rarely worth a spanking. Im also talking about children not babies.

I was spanked as a kid.

Swass, it is none of my business so feel free not to answer, but were you spanked? Just wondering because my cousin wasnt spanked and she doesnt spank her kids. However, recently as their oldest son has gotten older they have realized that a certain amount of corpral punishment is necessary with him. I know you have a son, and will be curious to see if your views do/dont change as he aproaches the 7-10yr range. I dont have any kids, so I cant comprehend what it is like to have to discipline a child in any fashion. I like to think I will be able to spank appropriately, but Im such a softy that I may be "Mr. Timeout" myself.

Leggester · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 8:45 am Post subject:

Well, since we're off subject here, I have to put in my two cents.

It's extremely hard to spank appropriately! Period. A spanking is ONLY administered by hand and never when you are angry. A spanking is administered immediately, never the "wait until your father get's home". A spanking should never be hard enough to injure, only enough to smart. After the spanking, the transgression can be explained, but the issue is dropped. No holding the issue over the child's head. It is a swift, and supposedly just punishment and once administered, it's all over. If you hold a grudge, you cannot spank.

Can you follow those rules? If not, do not spank. My wife cannot spank, she gets mad and therefore is disqualified.

I've had this discussion before with some folks. It devolves to the child raising experience. Some choose one method, some another method. I cannot say what is right or wrong, they are both different.

Both Swass and his child are mild mannered and gentle folks to be around.

As Swass rightly points out, I've seen animals treated better.

I have spanked my child. I have not had to spank my child for over 1.5 years. She's 6 now and I expect never to spank her again. She is past the age where it is an effective deterant. It takes a great deal to make the punishment a cold, calculated punishment rather than a knee jerk "hitting".

I've also disciplined my dog as I was raising it. Do you know the only accepted proper way? A flat hand, sharply striking up under the chin. Never across the nose, never in the ribs or rear end, never anything but a flat, opened hand under the chin.

I truly believe most abuse corporal punishment. They do not bother to take the time to research the proper application of corporal punishment, nor explore options such as time outs, restrictions and groundings.

The cycles can be broken. My paternal grandfather would just as soon hit you as speak to you ( and I mean hit, backhand ). My father had a temper also, though he never spanked us. Only my mother ever spanked us for the reasons listed above.

Sorry, I'm off my soap box now.

k2_mn · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 9:03 am Post subject:

I will tell you what I did to a guy who raped a friend of mine.

We put on black masks and gloves, grabbed him as he came home one night, took those brushes that you clean your grill with and scrubbed his balls for him, to top it off we poured rubbing alcohol on the bleeding mess. (Dont want him to die from an infection.) Twisted Evil

Swass · Guest

Yes, I was.

For those of you who say, "I was spanked, and I turned out OK," I'd say you turned out fine IN SPITE of your parent's chosen form of discipline. There are countless studies that conclude that corporal punishment does more harm than good. Raise your children as you see fit. I'll do the same.

I'm not down with vigilante justice, either. What did that accomplish? If you are to be believed, at the end of the day, she was still raped, and he'll still do it again. Why is he on the streets? Put your effort into convincing her to press charges, rather than taking the law into your own hands.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

So what can I do to help? She claims it wasn't sexual or drug related. I'm not sure if he's an ex-b/f or what. Everytime I try to talk to her about she finds a way to leave the convo. Do I just give up? I feel really bad about all this. She's one of the most unselfish people I have ever know and I don't think anyone deserves to get beat up.

riverfreak · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 9:54 am Post subject:

Swass,Swass,Swass ........ My parents discipline kept me alive, and fear of the discipline, influenced my choices - until I could rely on my own experiences, think about it Rolling Eyes

talk with your friend, I'm sure she's heard it all before, but it wont hurt for her to hear it once again and from you.....

Swass · Guest

I had a feeling you would chime in from the other side of the fence.

Am I the last bleeding-heart liberal left on this planet? It's so lonely over here.

jason_ssr · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 10:11 am Post subject:

NorCal, you are in a tough spot. I would just let her know you are there when she IS ready to talk about it. When she is ready, she will bring it up. In the meantime, keep you eyes open, looking for any sign that it is continuing. If so, I would report it.

Swass, fortunately for me, my folks were the epitome of Mr. Legge's description of proper spanking. I never thought for a second my folks were angry when I was spanked nor was I worried about my safety. I knew when I misbehaved, and I knew the punishment. My dad would come to me and say, "Ive told you in the past not to_____ or you would get a spanking. You chose to do it anyway, so lets go to your room. Both my parents were present. A single swat never hurt in itself. I always got 3 and the 3rd one would sting pretty good. Never enough to cause me to cry. Then it was done. I was more curious about those who were spanked chosing not to spank vs. those who were not spanked. Again, if I may pry more, what do you guys find to be effective forms of punishment? Timeout seems like a joke, but then again maybe I havent seen a good timeout implemented. What makes a good timeout? A kid with all the toys/video games in the world in his room may not see the banishment as such a bad thing. Just curious...

B-rad · Posted: Apr 30, 2003 10:13 am Post subject:

Nor Cal, In my experience it has been that you should never get involved with the ex- guy/ girl thing. If the guy is treating her bad or in this case hitting her, she will not understand or agree with your logic. She needs to get help on her own terms. You can provide some moral support and she will need that. I think that unless she is willing to face the facts and press charges this could continue. It's a lot different when you do not have to see it though the emotional side and you are looking at it as black and white. I personally feel that it is black and white, he hit and hurt her. He should be punished to the full extent of the law. to the 2 people involved it is not black and white though, their decisions are clouded by emotions that the outside could not understand.
Oh yeah, I'm going to spank my kids and keep up witht he tradition.