Attention BOAT and ENGINE manufacturers...

Ruune

posted a similar thread on tigeowners.com, but thought this would be a good forum for this type of discussion as well

I've got a technical question (well, a couple of them, actually)- specifically directed towards the manufacturers out there:

I've got a 2004 a Mercruiser. MAG MPI in my 22v- Does anyone out there know if this powerplant is capable of running on E85 ethanol? If not, are the new models from Mercruiser, PCM, Indmar, and/or Marine Power?

The reason I ask is that I burn FAR more fuel in my boat in the summer- more than all of my other vehicles combined. That said, I'd like to know what the manufacturers like Mastercraft, Correct Craft, Malibu, Tigé, and all the others are doing to step up and help clean up the environment!

For those of you that dont know, e85 is a mixture of 85% Ethanol and 15% petrolum. The Ethanol comes from corn and is clean-burning (this also means less "toxic fumes" when you're wakesurfing!). Additionally, it burns more efficiently (105 octane), and is generally cheaper than petroleum-based fuel.

so... thoughts? answers?

I'm gonna go back and hug a tree now. Razz

Styk33 · Posted: Feb 10, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject:

Here in CA we have the "priviledge" of having 15% of our fuel being ethanol. We get it year-round now, it used to be in the summer time. Great for killing your gas milage in your car. Now you do not notice.

You are welcome to convert over. You need to up the injection time and back off the advance about 10%. I have not tuned a full ethanol car. I did an 80/20 vehicle about 5 years ago. It was fast, but drank fuel faster than my boat.

How about propane?

Darin · Guest

When we get our hydrogen powered boats that run on water..........

jonsmith2340 · Soul Rider Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 370

I'm sure there is going to be people who disagree with this statement but that would be great if boats could run on E85!

As far as motors that run on more then the 10% ethanol that is approved by warrenties I can name, specifically, three people who run chevy trucks with 350's in them that are designed to run on 87 octane with 10% ethanol max and they run them on at least 30% ethanol. I also have a cousin, a farmer, who tank mixes all his gasoline to 30% ethanol for all gasoline vehicles that he owns and none of these have seen and problems with the motors. I don't have specifics on the one drawback of ethanol (decreased fuel efficiency) for any of these examples though. Sorry.

I personally have been running 10% in all my motors for the past five to six years, everything from my car, boat, snowmobile to lawn mowers.

savage3221 · Posted: Feb 11, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject:

I don't know too much about this fuel mixture, but would not the decreased effeciency in the long run deplete petroleum forces just as quickly as they are falling now (if sustainability is your goal)?

So I am assuming that this is for the non-pollution factor... but would this also pollute just as much because more cars are burning more fuel... just cleaner fuel, but at a faster rate?

boarditup · Addict Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 731 City: Allendale, MI

E-85 is a different USCG certification. You motor will not run it.

Karl

Ruune · Posted: Feb 13, 2006 9:55 am Post subject:

CHiLi DaWg · Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:28 pm Post subject:

Ruune, What sucks here is that farmers are selling their land like crazy to real estate types. I wish the ethonol push would have started ten years ago. You ever heard this phrase? "There's more than corn in Indiana" Yep, we have lots of new housing editions in those fields now. The goofy phrase is from a tourist attraction.

boarditup · Addict Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 731 City: Allendale, MI

It would take an enormous leap in technology to be able to create enough ethanol from the current yield on corn to make it plausable from an economic perspective. Also, there is simply not enough farm land to hope for a replacement for petroleum. It simply takes so much energy for a BTU of ethanol versus petroleum.

It has its place, but will never be a petroleum replacement in our lifetime.

jonsmith2340 · Soul Rider Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 370

boarditup, the thing to remember with respect to current corn yield is that due to technology current yeilds won't be current next year. Technology is pushing yields higher much faster then most people thought it was going to be possible. While I will agree that as a county we can't replace petroleum with ethanol I would love to see it used at a much higher level then it is. IMO I would rather run some ethanol in my fuel and know that it's renewable then burn all petroleum.

BugHunter · Newbie Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 29 City: Palm Bay

Isn't the biggest problem with Ethanol based fuels in the marine environment that it 'attracts' water ?

boarditup · Addict Joined: 01 Dec 2003 Posts: 731 City: Allendale, MI

Two issues:

1. Alchol and water mix well. Because the FI and computer systems on the marine engines are not as advanced as automobiles, you end up with some runability issues.
2. Ethanol is incompatible with the most common seal and gasket materials, including those with USCG certs. There are other materials (teflon, etc.), but they are much more expensive.

Most boats are fine with the 15% ethanol in fuel - olcer boats, those with carbs, will require a re-build kit and new hoses if there is trouble.

There is not magic bullet on petroleum replacement or independance. We could replace coal and heavy fuel electrical plants with nuclear, but that technolgy has consumer acceptance issues as environmentally friendly as it is. The current internal combustion engine infrastructure needs a similar performing replacement - fuel cells hold the most promise. Electric and hybrid are bridging technologies. Setting up a series of nuclear plants that produce hydrogen as a by-product also has enormous promise, but the same consumer acceptance issue remains.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

My friend's I/O has a fibreglass gas tank which is literally coming apart because of the ethanol.

Also, what happens when food products are used to make fuel? Can you see a potential for some interesting issues there?

eeven73 · Posted: Feb 15, 2006 8:41 am Post subject:

BugHunter · Newbie Joined: 29 Jan 2003 Posts: 29 City: Palm Bay

In the case of corn I'm pretty sure that only the stalk and the leaves are used to produce ethanol.

jonsmith2340 · Soul Rider Joined: 02 Feb 2005 Posts: 370

BugHunter, it's actually the kernel that is used and the kernel only. That's why you see lines of semi trailers loaded with corn waiting to dump at ethanol plants.

boarditup, I was unaware that there were some seal that reacted with ethanol. Which ones and what materials? I guess I've never seen an issue with marine or automotive motors. Also, I have personally run a 1979 Evinrude (carb) on between 10 and 15% ethanol for between seven and ten years without a carb rebuild. The only problem I have is that if someone who doesn't know the motor is starting it they end up grinding the starter because of how quickly it starts and they don't let off quick enough.

cameraboy, I'm not sure there is even a possibility that we could funnel enough corn into ethanol production to even effect corn used for food products. If you're curious just go check a website that lists corn prices or search for corn surplus. You'll be amazed at how low the price is that farmers get for corn (based on cost of production) and the amount of it just sitting in grain bins.

All in all I will agree that EtOH is not a wholesale replacement for petroleum based fuel but it presents an opportunity to reduce our dependence, even if it's 10 to 15% at a time.

bmartin · Addict Joined: 05 Feb 2003 Posts: 794

The amount of energy it takes to plant, grow, fertilize, harvest, transport, and convert corn to EtOH is almost the same as the energy corn yields when converted to EtOH. Some people say it actually takes MORE energy to produce corn EtOH than corn yields depending on how much you put into the growing equation (ie. Do you count the energy to manufacture the tractor that is used to harvest the corn???). At any rate, the net yield in energy is FAR lower than most people realize because it takes so much energy to produce and convert the corn into usable energy.

EtOH is a step towards petro independence, but it is highly unlikely that this this will be a major replacement to our existing sources.

I think wakeboarders should all be for expanding nukes....just think of all the 'heated' lakes there will be for winter time riding. Wink

eeven73 · Posted: Feb 15, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject:

Looks to me that you have bought the petroleum companies line.

Check out Brazils use of corn ethanol and its effect on the cost of fuel in that country.