blast the bayliner

[hobo]

OK, here's the deal. I have never owned a boat, but I am going to buy one next summer. I will use my boat 75% wakeboarding, 25% liesure/partying. I am a cheapskate/poor and want to know a good boat to get. I would like to get a wakeboard boat, but for 10 g's I can get a BRAND NEW Bayliner 175. My friend has basically the same boat in the 1989 version and his boat threw NO wake, but he didn't work the trim at all.

Here is the plan right now. Buy the bayliner, a fat sac or two, and work the trim for a wake. Do you guys think I will be able to get a decent wake from that set up? On a runabout, doesn't enough weight = good wake?

Also feel free to give your brutally honest opinion on the Bayliner 175 with the 3.0 Mercrusier (mercruiser is a good I/O, isn't it?). I have heard bad things about bayliner, but my buddy's is an 89 and running strong.

Any info is greatly appreciated.

[finkle]

hobo, bayliners have a pretty weak reputation. I think the common and perhaps best recommendation would be to buy an older wakeboard boat or a mid 90's natique supersport/MC prostar. Many of today's top of the line wb boats are the exact same molds from past boats.

[midwesty]

also... a 17'6" boat is EXTREMELY small

[ATROPINE]

When I first started wakeboarding, my buddy and I would rent a boat from the Air Force base-- it was a 17' I/O wih a 3.0 Mercruiser. No ballast, no tower or pole. We still had a lot of fun, but as we progressed we QUICKLY outgrew that boat. So we bought a 1994 Bayliner 20' I/O with a 5.7L Mercruiser. We paid $7000 for it 2 years ago and it was in pristine shape. $200 for an extended pole and then a couple of fat sacs and it threw a pretty decent wake. It kept us very happy as we progressed. We would have been happy to keep that boat still, but I wanted to get an even better wake. I found a great deal on a 1991 Malibu sunsetter (open bow, DD, 5.7L Mercruiser engine) in excellent shape with 275 hours. Paid $8900 for it and sold my Bayliner for $8600 (I had since added a BigAir tower to the Bayliner). Added a Titan tower and ballast system to the Malibu and we are VERY happy with it. I would prefer a V-drive for convenience sake (more family-friendly configuration), but for the price this was impossible to beat. A mid-late 80's 2001 Nautique would throw a better wake and could be had for the same price as my Malibu (maybe even less), but would not be open bow. If you can live without the open bow, this is definitely the way to go. I know it is very tempting to get something new with a warranty, but if you find something that has been well-taken care of with reasonable hours, I think you will be much happier. Neither one of my boats has had any major problems, and I put about 100 hours/year on each of them. I had to search for a little while for each of them and was willing to drive a LONG way to get the right boat if necessary. For the Bayliner I drove about 700 miles each way; for the Malibu I only had to travel 300 miles each way.

One of the biggest concerns is power. A 3.0L mercruiser will move an unweighted 17' boat OK, but add any weight and you will be hating life.

[gmarkham1]

I have an 18ft bayliner all set up with tower, perfect pass and autoballast for sale, throws a great wake, I have pics if interested or you could search the classifieds.

You have to decide what you want, a boat that you know will be reliable, or an older boat that you might have to put some work into, or possible dink around with everytime you take it out....

I was in your shoes after buying my first older used boat, and decided I wanted somthing new and have been enjoying trouble free boating eversince!

[Vampyre]

I have a 99 Bayliner 19 ft, with 4.3 L..
When I bought the boat, I had not even thought of wakeboarding.
I have had no trouble with my boat at all, and have added a Monster Tower, and run a bunch of fat sacs.

I too looked at the Bayliner 175 package.
I recommend against it. The 17 ft is very small, and the 3.0 L is underpowered for wakeboarding, especially with ballast.

You really have 2 options... buy a slightly used runabout, with at least a 4.3L, or go older, and buy an older D/D like mentioned above.

It all comes down to how much you wnat to have to worry about dicking with it.

Personally, I would get somthing in my price range that is like 5 years or so old, unless you are mechanically inclined, or know for a fact that it is mechinically sound, and know somehow that knows how to work on marine engines.

Unfortunately, it is very hard to find cheaper Vdrives, because most of the newer wakeboard specific boats are bought on very long term loans, and are sold at high prices. I am in the market for a wakeboard boat next year, and was looking at used.. but to me, it makes more sense to buy a new Moomba, brand new, at the end of the season.

sorry for the ramble, I am bored at work!

[riverside]

hobo,

if you are using your boat 75% for wakeboarding an older ski nautique 2001 would be your best wake for the money.On the other hand a brandnew bayliner should give you a few years of problem free boating.Compare a 15year old skiboat to the new bayliner it is obvious that the 15 year old boat 'could' need alot more maintenence.
If you can do oilchanges and some minor mechanics work yourself i would say go for the skiboat because it will give you so much more pleasure in wakeboarding than the small bayliner.If you need a mechanic for everything then go for the bayliner....nothing more frustrating than a boat that doesn,t run on a sunny wakeboarding day.

if you really want to make progress in your wakeboarding skills,.....stay away from the bayliner because it just doesn,t throw a big enough wake.

good luck.

[ballywho]

To everyone that says that a old SN2001 wont run as well as a Byliner, it allllllllllllll depends on how it was treated in it's life. If it was treated well and had regualar maintnence ect it will (I guarantee) preform better and longer than a brand new Mercruiser. I think for that price an old SN2001 or MC PS205 would be best. They both throw AMAZING wakes (the 205 is the old X-Star hull and I believe the 2001 is the old SAN210 hull) and will have alot more power for wakeboarding.

[gmarkham1]

once again the opinion of a fifteen year old... thanks ballywho!

someday you will stop feeling the need to reply to every post made!

[ballywho]

And someday you will learn to respect people's opinion even if they are younger than you.

Are you going to make an honest attempt at an argument or are you just going to state that I am, in fact, fifteen years old and that really is my opinion.

[gmarkham1]

I am not going to hijack this thread to make any argument or point with you... you do that well enough on your own!

[LFADAM]

ballywho, I think he may have been criticizing the fact that to my knowledge, the SN2001 is NOT the same hull as the SAN. Arent SANs over 20 feet? The SN2001 was 17 or 18 closed bow. SAN is definetely open.

[smokedog2]

ballywho is probably mostly right (and did a right smart job of slapping down ham1)

I might add that the new boat warrantee is often only as useful as the dealer you got it from. E.g. they make less on cheap boats and less on warrantee work so it is easy to find yourself waiting a long time to get any warrantee TLC.

If you put 10k into a MC and decide this is not for you, you probably will not get hurt too badly. A used Bayliner, well go price a year old Bayliner.

You get what you pay for, weight that appropriately when you value the advice you are getting here

sd2

[DRAGON88]

No. there is no "New" or "Old" Super Sport Hull, the hull has been unchanged thus far from 95-06. The deck has changed once, but not the hull. The hull is not even close to being a 2001 hull. a 2001 hull has a much much narrower beam and completely different hull characteristics.

If you are really looking into stepping up your riding, a 17 ft Bayliner might not be the best choice, I think that you'll find the 3 liter motor anemic when you start putting any ballast in it. The older inboards are essentially done depreciating, so when you sell it in a few years you're likely to get about what you payed for it, where as the Bayliner is going to take a HUGE hit.

The nice thing about the older inboards is that they are all pretty much the most basic motor you can get usually 351 or 350 carburated push rod V8's. So if you have any knowledge of engines you could probably do 90% of the work your self. A well maintained marine engine will easily run 1500-2000 hours before needing any major work.

Just my two cents: Go with the older inboard if you feel comfortable with it, trust me it'll be worth it.

[joe navy]

smokedog2 brings up a great point... That warranty is only as good as the dealer servicing it. I also agree to not go with anything less than a 4.3l as far as engine displacement because it will probably just not perform the way you want it to. I am a big guy 6' 240 and my 4.3l pulls me up great.
There is a ton of advice and info you will get on here but remember that you are the one writing that check so do what or get what you like best for your money.
Good luck,
Joe

[Erik]

[chavez]

I agree with joe navy, and I would add that the 185 would be a much better choice if you need inexpensive and you are set on Bayliner.

My brother has this boat - it does surprisingly well believe it or not.

As for depreciation: a new Bayliner is going to take a significant hit in the first several years. At some point down the line, it will level out for many years. Unfortunately, this number is probably in the neighborhood of 4-5k.

As for choice:

For used: I would search for a Mastercraft 205, Nautique 2001, Supra (late 80's early 90's), or a Nautique Super Sport or Sport. All excellent boats.

For new: the Bayliner will serve your needs for many many years. You will not have a problem getting warranty work done, just don't expect miracles for rapid service. Mercruiser 4.3 and the Alpha I are about as tried and tested a powertrain as you can get. They work, and work well.

[gmarkham1]

I am not arguing any point about i/o vs direct drive/vdrive....

The original poster was asking will this specific boat work for what I want it to do.

Although it is not the best boat for the application, it will work and you can progress. however, your technique will most likely be better, considering you will have to rely more on technique then a huge wake.

I wouldnt consider warranty either, you just have to consider how mechanically inclined you are and how well the previous owner took care of it, and how much you are willing to sink into it to keep it reliable.

With a new motor, you know how well you are taking care of it, so most problems are either warranty or your own damn fault, not someone elses that now you have to pay for!

Also as a first time boat owner(if that is the case) it is not always bad to have something that you can learn how to be a boat owner(cause it is more then just putting the gas in it and driving it), and also what it will take to maintain and to keep up the value.

Oh and to ballywho, it is not that I don't respect your opinion becuase of your age, I don't respect your opinion, because it has not been earned. When was the last time you signed a ten thousand dollar check to purchase anything? And also if he had asked should I buy this or that, then I wouldnt even had said a word, but he asked what about this boat. So that being said This partial hijacking is over!

[hobo]

Thanks for all the info. Even though the price is right, it sounds like the bayliner is not the way to go.

Next question. I would still like to spend less than 10 g's on a used wakeboard/ski boat. And I would like an open bow for function. What is your recommendation on the boat I should get. You've stated good things about the nautique 2001. Why? What makes it a good boat?

Are there any boats I should stay away from? One of my friends bought an old Supra comp and we later found out the the stringers were completely rotten. Any other boats with problem areas like that?

Also, where are the best places to look for used boats? Websites? Ebay?

Also, when I inspect a used boat, what should I check?
(Example: If you are looking at a Supra, make sure you to check the stringers. They have a tendency to rot if not taken care of properly.)

Will dealers let me test drive a boat? Should a private seller let me test drive a boat? It sure would be nice to take the boat out before I drop a wad of cash.

Sorry about all the questions. I have a lot to learn and I don't want to get burned with my first boat.

Thanks for your input!

[gmarkham1]

Never, I repeat never buy a used boat(or any boat for that matter) unless A) you can test drive it or B)a test drive is part of the final inspection before/during purchase(which would be the case with an ebay type of deal. ANd when you test drive it, put it through the ringer, dont be afraid to open it up for few minutes, check how it handles tight turns, and reverse, open the engine cover while it is running, turn the engine off and restart it a few times.

Also it is going to be tough to find an open bow dirct drive in good shape for under ten thousand(2001's are closed bows).

This is why I went with my bayliner to start with, My wife wanted an open bow, and I wanted something reliable, but didnt want to break the bank because buying a house, and having a car to drive, and planning retirement were a little more important. Also in your budget you have to decide how well equipped you want your boat. Things to consider are going to be tower, ballast, perfect pass, board racks, extra prop(s) etc.

I am not going to steer you from one boat or another, I can tell you though, you will not get a great wake out of a boat just because it is an inboard, some have great hulls others do not, and any boat that age you will want to carefully inspect for dryrot.

A few good places to look for used boats are boattrader.com, flipsell.com, iboats.com, you will see alot of the same adds on most of the sights.

Good luck!

[Erik]

I respectfully disagree with almost everything that gmarkham1 says above this post, except for the notion that you need to do some heavy searching. He owns a Bayliner. I own an inboard V-drive. He says an I/O will do fine. I say it won't. There is no right answer perhaps. You just need to search, on this site and others. There is just WAY too much room for opinion here. And they tend to be black & white when it comes to I/O's.

Because this is a very contentious subject and has been battled on for years here and most people are tiring of debating what ultimately comes down to a personal decision about money.

I don't mean to be curt, but with 2 posts on here, you need to search and even ressurect some old topics. Look for terms like "boat under 12,000" "boat under 10,000" "budget boat" "boat on a budget" and so forth.

You need to get familiar with this site, its search feature, and figure out what you can spend.

[gmarkham1]

Wow, that is a pretty strong statement, but I do agree that it is your money, personal preference, and you should definately research, and remember that when you ask for someones opinion, you get just that, their personal opinion, not necassarily fact!

I thought my last post was quite unbiased and very good advice... oh well! Guess the only real option is to run out and purchase a 2001!

[gmarkham1]

oops, I will take back part of that last post, since ERIK quickly edited, anyways... personal preference.

But I have been riding behind my boat for a few years and I think I am getting plenty of bang for my buck and skill level, and I do plan on upgrading when the time/deal is right!

[Erik]

[gmarkham1]

[Erik]

Steady brother. It is taking all I've got to not write a diatribe on this topic, and I am not going to take a stab at you or your boat purchase more than I already have, or have implied. Let's put this one to rest.

[joedirt00]

Now with the drivetrain debate done, I think, There is alot to be said for having something new(er) over something pushing 20 years old. With that being said, There are other brands besides Bayliner that have entry level boats. Might just want to check all your options. Personally I would look to Monterey or Crownline before a Bayliner if you go the I/O route.

[McGoose]

[gmarkham1]

Go ahead, you wont hurt my feelings I know what I have in my purchase. I paid almost less then ten grand of msrp, and got it brand new. Afer I made the purchase I got into wakeboarding. I have added the same things to it that you would have to add to any nonwakeboarding boat, and it throws a good wake. Granted it does not throw an X-2 wake, or the wake of a super air nautique, but neither does alot of other older inboard boats, to make a generalization such as you have made is a mistake. I have had several high level riders, that werent only surprised by the wake, but also wont turn down a chance to ride behind it. Is it the best wakeboard boat money can buy? no it is not. Does it do the job? Yes it does! Have I been Happy with it? Yes I have. Can you progress and develop a passion for the sport? Yes you can! Can you get more then 4 people into it comfortably? Yes. Am I less dedicated to the sport, or not worthy of calling myself a wakeboarder because I ride behind an I/O?

So go ahead with your diatribe and tell me how unworthy my boat is and that you wouldnt ride behind it unless it was the last running boat in the world.

Oh and if anyone doesnt know what diatribe means like I didn't, here you go..

diatribe
One entry found for diatribe.
Main Entry: di·a·tribe
Pronunciation: 'dI-&-"trIb
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin diatriba, from Greek diatribE pastime, discourse, from diatribein to spend (time), wear away, from dia- + tribein to rub -- more at THROW
1 archaic : a prolonged discourse
2 : a bitter and abusive speech or writing
3 : ironical or satirical criticism

ALso here is a picture of the wake behind my boat, just so you have more ammuntion while writing your diatribe.

[gmarkham1]

[Wakebrad]

Another thing to take into consideration is not the total cost but the cost of ownership. A new ~$10-15,000 i/o will depreciate far more than a used 2001/Sport Nautique/205 in the same price range. In fact if you notice the 2001s seem to be appreciating. You will have more maintenance on these boats but that's all part of the fun. Taking a boat and making it yours. Putting in a ballast system, tower, etc.

If you really want to get into wakeboarding I would also recommend one of these inboards. You will grow out of an i/o much faster if you want to progress. And you'd be amazed at how many people just thought they'd putt around on a wakeboard and then get serious.

[Sbt3]

here is my input on the subject-
Bayliner- I started with at 1850 bayliner. It did a good job for what I needed. This was probably 8-9 years ago. I was just starting but I had some friends at that point who were pretty good. They could throw down any trick behind my boat that they could behind other inboards(raley, roll, Roll2 revert, crow, spins). It was tougher to hold speed than a direct drive, you have to ride a shorter line typically behind a a I/O, but it definitely did the job.
I have been through a few boats since then and settled this year on a 97 supersport sac'd out. I did it all my self tower, ballast, stereo, everything. It is sweet. Luckily I am pretty mechanically inclined. My last boat a 88 mastercraft ran great but as you would expect with something almost 20years old it had some minor problems, starter, points(which got replaced with electronic), coil, basic stuff but if you don't know how to fix it, it could lead to lots of time off the water. I never touched my bayliner. It ran fine all of the time.
Would I go back to a bayliner, no way. My riding has progressed past the point where I would want to ride at the speeds and rope length that you typically ride behind an I/O at. Could I sure, but I don't have to.
My guess is that if you are really into riding this won't be your last boat anyway. You are going to progress and change boats untill you eventually end up in a V-drive. So I would buy what you are comfortable with.

As far as older ski boats to buy that is all opinion as well. Personally I don't like the wake on the 2001 nautiques at all. Not my cup of tea. Too narrow and no transition.
In your price range you may find some mid 90's malibu echelons. These have a great wake. Also look to the prostar 205 or sport nautiques. Any of these older ski boats are going to be cramped with sacs if you expect to have a nice size wake, plan to add at least 1500lbs if not more to get a good wake.

good luck with your purchase and remember that everyones opinion will be different, the best thing is to test the boat and make sure it fits your style.

[Loppy]

I've been into long line shred for a long time but i'm 37 now and too fat and old to hang on anymore. Recently, wake play was discovered and I'm back in the water grinning ear to ear and in your same boat (pun intended) looking for one.

I got to wake surf for the first time this summer, and that was IT. I'm hooked. Also love to do super short line and play on the peak. I/O no workie for surf'n, hence it was simply not an option.

Dood, do yourself a favor. I've been searching the world and have found TONS of killer boats for less than 15K. (I have the open bow requirement too). Without the open bow, TONS for under 10K. Get yourself a well maint. direct drive and be done, have fun.

[gmarkham1]

Well put Stan, that pretty much sums up my feelings perhaps a little less 'biased' and 'defensive' as the current owner of an I/O.

With that I bid this thread farewell!