Treatment for an ACL injury?

Cameron · Outlaw Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 180 City: Down Under

Does anyone know from experience or otherwise what the standard treatment for ACL injuries is with regard to differnent grades of injury?

Bowen · Posted: Jun 24, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject:

A doctor would...

But have you had an MRI?...What did you do?

AirProfile · Addict Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 602 City: Brookfield

ok for an acl there are many treatments and are technoligies are increasingly gettting better every day. This year i was an atc internship and i saw many acl injuries i saw 2 tears.

the first kid 18 tore it playing football he was done for that season 4th game, all the way to 5th baseball game he started playing 3 innings or so. he needed surgery to reconnect the acl under the knee about a month or so after the injurie. It is very difficult to put weight in on acl injuries and they are one of the worst injuries.

For our older friends surgery might be an option from past injuries......
there going to need a new acl, now this is awful takes like 6months to be able to recouperate you won't be getting on no board for at least a year,

what they do for this is again surgery they remove the old acl and put in somone elses that is not torn, now the can take them out of dead people yes thats where they get most of them but from complications they started using animals. now you have to sit in a bed and every day slowly ur leg by a machine get's moved about .5 degree. yes it's that bad you cant bend.

please note, acl's are not vital the oklahoma state wrestling coach does not have either of his for the past 20 years he tore both of them completely and in unwillling to not be on the mat with his team for a full season (osu is the best in the country) therefore inconclusion if you give me more information i would be more than happy to send you the right info on your injury.
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Hashish

AirProfile · Addict Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 602 City: Brookfield

different grades , there's complete tears not all the way half tears rip aways and then tehre's the medical terminology.
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Swed

WyLd_ChiLd · Outlaw Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 223 City: Toronto

If you have a acl injury You should be asking a docter...Not us..Cuz if you did you would have already talked to one.

TrueTexan · Criminal Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 57 City: Madison, WI

Now I am not gonna pretend to be a doctor, but I am Physical Therapy/Human Anatomy major at the UW-Madison so hopefully I can shed some light on ACL injuries. At the UW-Sports Med Clinic we see about 350-400 ACL injuries a year! And that number has been growing each year, so if you did tear your ACL it is not like you are a rareity.

If you tear your ACL there are 2 directions you can take.
1.) You can go through 3-4 weeks of rehab and like mentioned by the other guy you can go on about life without having surgery of any kind. As a matter of fact, Hines Ward for the Pittsburgh Steelers has no ACL in his right knee and no MCL in his left knee, and he play football fine. Now keep in mind he has more then likely been shot up with so many metabolic steroids that he can't even feel the pain, and he wears knee braces that cost up to $5000!!!! I personally would not recommend opting out of surgery.
2.) You can go through with the surgery. Now despite what num nuts mentioned earlier about ACL surgery being the worst thing in the world, and having to have your leg moved .5 degrees a day by a machine is total bullstuff. I am not gonna sit here and tell that ACL surgery is fun and you'll like it, but its not the end of the world, and if you work hard and really focus on your rehab program you can be possibly back on the water in as early as 3 months. And also as far as using cadavers ligaments that is true, but they have really strayed away from that and in some states it is illegal now because of HIV and blood type complications. But they have never and doubt they will ever use animal ligaments, they are made up of totally different tissues and would almost render a human knee immovable. They usually take a peice of your own platella tendon, or they take a hamstring graft out of the back of your own leg.

Now I tore my ACL my senior year of high school in October playing football. I made it back in time for the last 5 basketball games after surgery. I completely tore my ACL and had surgery and was out and back to playing in 3.5 months. I didn't have any machine moving my leg .5 degrees everyday, I didn't get any animal ligaments put in my knee, and it really wasn't as bad as num nuts was making it sound earlier. Yes it sucks, trust me I know all to well how much it sucks to tear your ACL I did it!! But if you do your rehab and just keep a positive attitude you can be out and boardin/playing again in no time.

Hopefully I helped a little bit with this situation, if you have anymore questions and would like an educated answer unlike AIR PROFILE'S answers email me

itsatexasthang2000@yahoo.com

Peace,
Tex

P.S. AirProfile you should probably get your facts straight before you start running your mouth about stuff like this. I don't mean to be an A-hole, but when I tore mine and everyone was telling me how bad it was it really got to me.

Firefightersmurf · Guest

AirProfile.You should not be posting on this subject, it is clear that you are very lacking on your knowledge of anatomy. The ACL is extremely important to the stability of your knee. If the OSU wrestling coach does indeed have two detached ACL, he would not be able to wrestle let alone walk.

There are five legitimates that hold your knee together the Anterior Cruciate Legitimate, the Posterior Cruciate Ligament, the Medial Collateral Ligament, the Lateral Collateral Ligament, and the Patellar Ligament.

The ACL and PCL are the ligaments responsible for flexion and extension, without them you would have a very unstable knee that would tend to "dislocate" whenever you put too much weight on it.

As far as the surgery to repair an ACL tear you are partially correct. For a complete tear the preferred method, is not a donor ACL from a cadaver, but from a self-donation. The Orthopedic Surgeon takes the middle third of your patellar ligament with a small section of the Patella, and a small section of the tibial tuberosity. This bone-ligament-bone section then gets screwed in place to become your new ACL. If this surgery has already been done, and you re-tear your ACL, then yes the only option would be to get a donor ACL. The typical recovery is not as along as you suggest either.

I speak on this subject from a couple of points of view. First, I am about 3yrs status post-op from a complete ACL detachment (which I did assisting with coaching wrestling). After my surgery I was able to walk with crutches the following day, and walk crutchless with a brace within 2 weeks. I was running inside of a month (with great amount of pain). If I had been wakeboarding at the time I would have been doing it within about 3 months. Secondly I also work in the Emergency Medical field, so I see all types of injuries all the time.

Dragonlady8 · Black Widow Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 9198

Holy Cow, where are some of you getting your information?? Shocked

First of all Cameron, do a search about the ACL and you will find A LOT has already been posted on this subject.

TrueTexan I have no idea where you're getting your information, but I'd like to see what states "Ban" the use of Cadaver grafts. I'd love to see where you're getting this information.

The gold standard for ACL reconstuction is the Patella Tendon ( Bone-on-Bone) Graft.....whether it be Autograft or Allograft.

But the bottom line is, the type of reconstruction is dependant upon the surgeon's preference.

I myself have had an ACL reconstructed with a Patella tendon allograft and it's now @ 9wks post-op. I was only down for 5 days max. and went back to work @ 10days. Full extention and 125 degress flexion post op day 2.
Still am not "allowed" to do any outdoor activities/uncontrolled environment activities because it take about 3-4 months for the blood supply to establish in the bone plugs as per my Surgeon.
See your Orthopod and talk to him about the surgery. He will give you the best information that he has about the type of reconstuction he is comfortable with.

clubmyke · Criminal Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 56 City: so cal

you can let it go, however scar tissue will form and you will pay for it later..most people that i talk to had better results getting the surgery sooner than later...

acl surgery isnt that bad ( i just had mine last wednesday)... you can choose from patella, cadaver, or hamstring. plan on being out at leatst 6 months from any serious activity...
the patella is the strongest replacement but the recovery is the longest.... a lot will depend on your situation... my md didnt reccomend the patella due to my age (younger heals faster and older heals real slow and less pain tolerence). i also had ham damage which ruled out hamstring... but still decieded on patella due to i was in excellent health despite my age...

btw, i got really lucky and didnt need acl replacement - had 70 % intact and complete pcl recovery in 2 months) but i needed a mcl repair and minuscus cleanup...

plan on brace of some sort ($800 - $1500) from don joy or cti... most people have a very good recovery and lose the brace after 1-2 years...

AirProfile · Addict Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 602 City: Brookfield

ok moving the leg was for a new acl put in

i did not mean to make it out that bad but there is alot of work to be done expecially pysical therapy.

the braces yes they are that expensive (could prob find one for 500$$) but insurance will cover that.

clubmyke · Criminal Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 56 City: so cal

true... the mri doesnt show all... the severity isnt really know till you are opened up (mine turned to be much, much less).

from what i have been told.. pt has a ALOT to do with the recovery

in regards to the brace...the price depends on insurance 70%-100% and custom or off the shelf... most custom braces are at least $1k (cti2 @ $1200)

Dragonlady8 · Black Widow Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 9198

AirProfile it's nice to now that you spent time a year as an athletic trainer intern ( not a an Athletic trainer- Certified intern since you're 16 yr old as stated in your profile).

I've spent well over 5000 hr interning the Athletic training field before I became an ATC, and what you saw in 1 yr is miniscule.
I've also gone up the ladder from physical therapy aide->ATC->physical therapy assistant/ATC-> Ortho tech->Physican Assistant.

The question was asked about ACL experience and Knowledge. From what I can gather in your statements is that you're blurting out 2nd-3rd hand knowledge. Not to be condescending, but your expertise in this area is limited

An MRI are only 70% accurate, especially when is comes to diagnosising meniscal tears. The only accurate exam is a Knee Arthroscopy.

Now having worked in this field for close to 20 yrs and also having an ACL reconstruction myself ( and clubmyke too), I can say that we pretty much know what we're talking about.

emeseis · Newbie Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 6

I allready had meniscus clean up last january and now need acl surgery. I have to make up my mind for self or cadaver ligament. since i cant ride , like three weeks ago i looked on the back of the garage and pulled out that old, 70´s looking, heavy, yellow kneeboard that use to ride like 10 years ago...its nothing like wakeboarding but i least i´ve been out in the water. Im even considering buying one of those new models to be able to ride after the 6th month of my acl surgery.....

never tried wakeskating...does anyone now if theres the same ammount of pressure on the knees since u dont use bindings? has anyone tried wakeskating with a busted knee?

DaBigKahuna · Criminal Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 60 City: Honolulu

Wakeskating is fine if you just cruise and don't do anything like wake jumps, butterslides, etc. The minute you put yourself in a situation that one foot can come off and the other one stays on the board, say goodbye to your knees!

AirProfile · Addict Joined: 17 Aug 2004 Posts: 602 City: Brookfield

this kid hasn't responded once to his post.....
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California Dispensary

Cameron · Outlaw Joined: 28 Aug 2003 Posts: 180 City: Down Under

Hey thanks for all the replies.. I have just had a MCL strain and a possible ACL strain.. The injuries are still currently healing and as you said not much else can be determined without a MRI or opening you up, however this is not neccessary with me luckily. I'm in the process of regaining strength in my legs to be able to support the injured knee and still have a few weeks until I will be back on the water.

I'm just concerned about my knee due to the seriousness and frequency of ACL injuries with wakeboarding.. I really dont need to be out for another couple of months because my 'temperamental' ACL decided to go. I simply wanted to know what the treatment for an ACL injury is as its very different to the MCL which I have injured where the damage is quite obvious. Although it seems as I havent severed or dislocated my ACL there is nothing much I can do but wait it out.. thanks again guys..

Dragonlady8 · Black Widow Joined: 27 Aug 2004 Posts: 9198

You can't "dislocate" an ACL.
The treatment & rehab is different for the MCL and that does depend upon the severity of the strain/tear.

There are several excellent articles ( if you want to do the reseach) in Journal of Arthroscopy and American Journal of Sports Medicine.
As a matter of fact there have been some pretty articles written by several Aussies MDs.
Good luck with your recovery.

justsomeguy · Guest

Side note:

If you think you've torn a ligament in your knee, getting it examined pronto can alleviate the need (or kneed...but I digress) for using a donor ligament (yours, or some dead guy's) for the repair.

When I blew my knee up years ago, I was in surgery 24 hours later and instead of using donor ligaments they were able to reattach my severed ligaments. All four of them...