KITEBOARDING??

cezza · Posted: Mar 17, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject: KITEBOARDING??

does anyone kiteboard here? ive seen a video of them and it looks fun but again it looks pretty stupid how they try and do tricks in the air like big grabs and stuff, well the rolls and flips are ok but yeh all you see is these legs in the air like they are swinging from a tree- kinda gay. i rekon it would be easy once you know how to work the kite...some might disagree tho Confused

ozboarder · Newbie Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 19 City: Sydney

Kiteboarding looks like great fun. Equipment is very expensive though. Definately looks like trying one day. Saw a tv show of some surfer guys trying to work it for the first time and they really struggled to get up so dont know about easy

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 18, 2005 7:01 am Post subject:

Kiteboardin is a blast! In any sport, you will have those who ride with styles you dont like, and some that you do. Some wakeboarding tricks look dumb, but it doesnt mean wakeboarding is. Learning to kiteboard is easy. none of the individual skills are hard at all. However, doing multiple easy skills while watch where you are going can be a challenge. The kites are powerful, so any mistakes doing these multiple easy skills can get you hurt or killed. Best to get a lesson on the right eqipment to learn on rahter than buying some very aggresive gear on learning on your own. You wont like the kite teaching you lessons, so let an instructor teach you.

Kites can be expensive if you buy the brand new latest and greatest gear. However, buying things used is quite cheap. A kite might cost $1800USD new, but in 6 months is $500 in perfect condition, and 6 months later is $300USD in like new condition. If you got to have the latest and greatest gear, check out the link in my sig. It is for BEST kiteboarding. They are a direct sales company so they are 50% cheaper than the retail stores.

Even if you pay full price for the latest gear, it isnt even 1/10th the cost of a wakeboard boat. You also dont have to keep feeding it gas and maintenance, or insurance.

cezza · Posted: Mar 20, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject:

dude thats to expensive for me!! ive heard about kiteboarders getting blown out to sea which would suck aye!!

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 21, 2005 8:39 am Post subject:

you only get blown out to sea if you ride in places where the wind is blowing out to sea. You want to ride in places where the wind is blowing parallel to the beach, or even slightly angled toward the beach. that way if you crash your kite and cant relaunch it, you get blown to the beach rather than out to sea. People who chose to ride in offshore wind run that risk, but a rider can simply chose another beach where it isnt blowing offshore.

cezza · Posted: Mar 21, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject:

so you could get blown on land right which could just as bad eh? haha

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 21, 2005 12:38 pm Post subject:

You are blown out to see when your kite stops flying and it slowly drags you there. If your kite stops flying and you are slowly dragged to land, its not bad at all. In fact, once you get back to the beach you just stand up, pack up, and go home. It dont end as nice being dragged out to sea. Just be smart about the wind direction and you have nothing to worry about.

cezza · Posted: Mar 21, 2005 2:18 pm Post subject:

sweet sounds narly. i rekon it would be sweet as to go really big and get the hugest air thats why i would do it

Swass · Guest

So, if your kite collapses or otherwise hits the water, you're pretty much screwed? There's no way to get it flying again from the water? What happens when you fall?

jamesriver-rider · Posted: Mar 21, 2005 2:28 pm Post subject:

ive seen people get their kites relaunched from in the water but it doesnt look to easy i dont know anything about the sport other then its expensive but ive watched it a few times

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 21, 2005 2:47 pm Post subject:

nah, the kite is easy to relaunch. it only will not relaunch if something is broken, or there is not enough wind. Most of the time you can put it back in the air in just a few seconds. When you fall, it doesnt necessarily mean the kite falls. Most of the time the kite stays in the air.

The kite moves in front of you in an arc shape (just like a wakeboarder moves behind a boat. The more directly in front of you you fly it, the more power it has since your back is to the wind. As it reaches the edges of the arc both horizontally and vertically it has little to no power as the canopy angle is catching less wind. When you are moving with the kite, the kite is trying to get to the edge of the "window" naturally by the force of the wind, but since you are keeping pace with it, it can never reach the edge and depower. When you fall, you stop keeping up with the kite and the kite moves ahead to the edge of the window and has no pull. It just flies there waiting for you to do something. You take a deep breath, and shake off the spill, then steer the kite back out in front of you and it generates pull again and off you go. So when you are crusiing and you want to stop, you just edge hard and slow your speed down allowing for the kite to pull ahead of you to the edge of the arc where it has no power and you come to a stop.

So, the kite always tries to get to the edge of the "wind window" to depower, its looking for the path of least resistence, and you use the boards edge to determine when you allow it to get there. it has no pull to your far right, far left, and directly overhead.

PimpinD · Addict Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 785 City: Orlando, FL

I took several lessons over spring break, and as Jason said doing each individual thing is easy, putting it all together is a lil tough. By the second day i could right to left endlessly and go some what go to the right. Its alot of fun, and a very cool idea, but give me a boat and a wakeboard and ill be happy Smile

.

cezza · Posted: Mar 21, 2005 7:11 pm Post subject:

cant bet wakebordn but gettn huge air would be rad!!

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 5:24 am Post subject:

Yeah, everyone can go their natural direction almost instantly once the learn to fly the kite. However, you have to ride switch half the time. This greatly improves your wakeboarding! Imagine how much more you can do when your switch riding begins to match your regular. Ive always been able to do a couple of switch inverts behind a boat, so I assumed I could ride switch ok. It was until I got behind the kite that I realized my fundalmentals werent as good as a thought, especially switch. Now Im actually more fundamental switch than regular since I didnt have as many bad habits to break riding switch.

It ends up being much like driving a car. Remember when you first learned to drive how you had to focus on everything? You had to remember the rules, and focus on speed and distance. You had to think about driving. Now you can drive without thinking about it, change CDs in the deck, eat a sandwich, and talk on the phone, all at the same time without missing a beat. Kite flying becomes very similar. You get to where you dont even look at the kite much. You can feel on the bar what the kite is doing. You can do all the little things without thing about it and all you think about is riding your board and what you want to do. You think about if you want to go over to that beach, or want to try to get barrelled over there, or wonder how high you can boost off that roller.

The lake or ocean becomes your own street course, and you just make your own lines.

Every wakeboarder should add it to their activity. You dont wakeboard when its blowing anyway. It will greatly improve your edging skills both regular and switch.

cezza · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 12:17 pm Post subject:

yeh true jason!! so are inverts generally easy kiteboarding?

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:

yes, basic inverts are easier to perform, but the challenge come with style and fluidity. Since you can control you height and decent speed, you can pretty much do anything you can imagine. You are hooked in, so your rotation axis is perfect every time. As you add your own style and rotation axis to it, you unhook from the kite and rotate on any axis your style wants to. This is hard like wakeboarding or cable riding. Handle passes are harder because the pull is coming from above you rather than in front of you as you boost. Therefore, timing the handlepass is crucial. It is typically done at the top of the jump in that weightless moment between acent and decent. Riding unhooked is harder because the pull is on your arms like wakeboarding, and if you drop the handle, your kite crashes.

cezza · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject:

so if you wanna get 50ft in the air you can control that? as in how high you go?

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject:

well, you control the factors and can jump that high if you chose to. Basically, jump height has to do with:

Wind speed
Kite size
board speed
load
technique

You use different sized kites for different wind conditions. The idea of jumping 50+ft is basically going out "overpowered" or on a larger kite than one would normally use in that wind. Then you build up alot of speed across the water, and load up. Then you send the kite overhead at the right moment, and up you go to the top floor. The rush of jumping super high like that is fun, but riding overpowered is generally boring from a wakeboarders standpoint. You cant manuver much on the water like doing 180s or carving around, as the kite is so strong its all you can do to hold it down. So, the bigger the kite, and the stronger the wind, and the faster you go, and the harder you load, and better you time it, you can go as high as you got the guts to go.

Now for people who want to do other things besides gianormous jumps and paragliding back down, we go out on a more manageable kite size. We can do big carving turns, or ride blind or do wakeboard tricks, but your height is less. Now when you want to just boost high, you have to settle for 30ft which is still scary high!!

cezza · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject:

yeh if i was to kiteboard im gona get me a massive kite so i can go huge haha, dude it must be tiring on your arms eh? or like do you sorta hang in the air?

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

nope, you are hooked in through a waist harness. You can let go with your hands if you want. there is no load on your arms at all.

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

did you see the pic I posted in the bigest air?

savage3221 · Posted: Mar 22, 2005 2:58 pm Post subject:

yeah, my buddy has some of the kite gear, just a training kite and board, but he will use his wakeboard when he gets the hang of it. but what we did with the trainer was get on a hill on this island we were near, and get the kite ito that "power zone" and then jump just straight up (we had a pretty good wind goin here) the kite would take us a good 20 feet out into the water...gooooood times Very Happy

lol, we didn't get crazy high like talked about above as the kite was pretty small, but it was still a fun feeling beeing "flown" for a couple of seconds.

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 23, 2005 5:16 am Post subject:

You should go check out Canyon on a windy day. Lots of guys riding there. Even some of the older wakeboarding crowd from back in the day ride there. I know Paul Pearce rides there and Ramirez just picked it up as well. Might want to hook up with them and check it out.

cezza · Posted: Mar 23, 2005 12:23 pm Post subject:

wheres the pic?

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 23, 2005 12:34 pm Post subject:

its in the "Biggest Air" thread

melvinator · Criminal Joined: 26 Sep 2003 Posts: 80 City: caledonia

Props to you jason, I am thinking about kiteboarding and you have explained it better in one post than all the websites I have been to put together. You must be a writer or an english teacher, you have a way of explaining things!!!! Anyway if I have more questions you will be the first one I look for.

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 24, 2005 12:32 pm Post subject:

Nah, Im a computer nerd. Im just a dummy who took a long time to figure out what the smarties were talking about. Then through much trial and error figured out what they were saying, and then traslated it back into dummy (my native language) for the masses! But, thanks!

You will really dig kiteboarding if you love wakeboarding but miss the freedom and soul of snowboarding and surfing. Its an eerie feeling to be moving across the water doing a bunnyhop 180 and a big carve all in the quiet with no boat motor, only the whisper of the water under the board. Then complete silence as you boost into the air.

d · Criminal Joined: 22 Jun 2003 Posts: 65 City: Portland, OR

Jason,

I agree, good explanation of kiteboarding. I've always thought it would be fun to learn, and this post has definitely helped me understand a little better how it works.

Although it has been an odd experience to hear it all in my head in Booger's voice. (That is Booger in your avatar right?)

By the way Booger, er, I mean, Jason, I noticed in your profile that you are an IT manager. Just curious, what company do you work for? I'm an IT consultant so I'm thinking you should hire me on some project so we can go out wakeboarding or kiteboarding during business hours and call it an "off-site" or "business lunch" or "status meeting" or whatever!! I definitely need to find more clients that wakeboard/kiteboard/snowboard, etc.

melvinator · Criminal Joined: 26 Sep 2003 Posts: 80 City: caledonia

I live close to lake michigan and want to get into kiteboarding, the problem is that I am a teacher and don't have alot of $. Would these kites work on lake michigan.

http://www.bestkiteboarding.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=44&idproduct=204

http://www.bestkiteboarding.com/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=44&idproduct=118

What kind of bar would you recomend?
Thanks

tommyadrian5 · Addict Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 907

Melvinator,

what kind of winds do you get...both BEST and Slingshot recently released a new set of 'ultra light wind' kites, the BFK and the Machine. Each are supposed to be revolutionary in allowing ultra light wind kiting, and from what i hear they work pretty damn well.

I am going to get one soon for here in dubai, although the last few days i've been borrowing small kites, we've had some great 20 knot days, which we get maybe 10-15 of all year.

Jason was the first person I ever talked to about kiting. I knew it was pretty big out here and seeing that my boat is sitting back in annapolis all wrapped up I figured it would be a decent replacement for wakeboarding. We'll i've been at it for about 5 months and i'm completely addicted. Jason said it all, being able to cruise along, boost big air, all in complete silence is quite the experience and more enjoyable than wakeboarding IMHO. The fact that you can also keep your quiver in your car all the time, hop down to the beach during lunch, hit up an hour stealth session, then head back to work makes all the difference.

Does get expensive, you can never have too many kites/boards, especially in a place with hugely varied winds and wave conditions. (And Asylah in OMAN, 30-40 knots and flat water all summer long).

Oh and for the haters, i guarantee no matter how good you are at wakeboarding, you get on a kite without a good day or 2 of lessons and you will get owned worse than ever before in your life. Kiteboarding is like wakeboarding, with 10 added degrees of difficulty.

Here are some pictures of kiteboarding here in Dubai.

cezza · Posted: Mar 28, 2005 2:43 am Post subject:

i can only see one pic?

melvinator · Criminal Joined: 26 Sep 2003 Posts: 80 City: caledonia

I can only see one pic also.
Lake michigan probably get 10-15 mph winds on average. I am not looking for a high performance set-up, just something affordable that I can learn on and have fun. If I like it then I will get a better set up in the future if I need to.
Thanks.
p.s. Sorry this is in the wakeboarding discussion, but I can't find a good kiteboarding site:(

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 28, 2005 6:39 am Post subject:

Melvinator, those kites would work great! However, kite selection is alot about personal stats and how you like to ride. Take a couple of lessons and try a bunch of gear. Find out what fits your style the best.

First off is size. Size has to do with power. How much power does it create in a given wind range. Well, your weight determines how much power you need in that range. It also depends on how fast you like to ride and at what speed you like you most power and stability to be. I weigh 200lbs, so A 16m kite for me is good from about 15-20mph wind. My wife is only 120lbs, so a 16m kite is good from 11-15mph wind. So you buy a set of kites to cover the wind ranges you will incounter the most. Later you can buy a smaller or larger kite for the really strong or really weak days as you get the money to do so.

Next characteristic is aspect ratio. Aspect ratio is like gears in a stick shift. Low aspect is like 1st gear. Lot of power right out of the hole, but reaches its max power early. People who like to ride slower with alot of turning speed, like a low aspect kite. Mid aspect is like 2nd gear. Decent power out of the hole, but as you speed up to a medium speed it comes alive and has alot of power. Its like trying to go from a dead stop in your car in 2nd gear. I starts slow but gains power as you gain speed. The turning speed is medium as well. High aspect is like 3rd-6th gear. It has little power out of the hole riding slow, but as you gradually increase speed, it gets stronger. Then when your really cookin' it comes alive and has great power.

Guys who like to surf wave like low aspect because they are turning alot as they bottom turn, slash, and bottom turn. Wakestyle riders typically like mid aspect becuase they like the consistent power control like a boat with good power around wakeboarding speed. Big air guys like high aspect because more speed equals more air. Most advanced riders ride high aspect and can do all disciplines on them. As your kite skills mature, you can do anything with any of them.

And, yes, that is Booger. Many people on here thought it was me so I has to add that to my sig.

Here are some pics of me riding yesterday. 30mph winds and Im on a mid aspect 9m Slingshot Fuel and 138cm Best Pro board.

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 28, 2005 6:47 am Post subject:

As far as bars go, you will want a chicken loop style bar. Dont get a pulley bar til your ready. You will know when. Get a carbon bar, and depending on how much you want to spend, get the bells and whistles. I have BEST's new swivel bar and its awesome!

tommyadrian5, Whats up man?? you guys getting any wind? You have any riding pics? I want to see the conditions! Ill check you guys site as well.

jason_ssr · Posted: Mar 28, 2005 6:54 am Post subject:

Melvinator, buy used stuff cheap til your ready to buy new stuff. Check out www.iwindsurf.com classifieds for cheap gear. Stick with Naish, North, Slingshot, and BEST as far as brands go. let me know what you are looking at and I can give you some info on it. You should be able to fin kites for between $150-$300 in good condition. Pick up a 16m and a 12m to start as you will use them the most. Then pick up an 8m or so down the road for when it really cranks.

Also check out www.kiteforum.com and read up. Its an international site so you gotta weed through the bickering (and you guys thought wb.com was bad, try a bunch of 30 somethings bickering like 14 year old girls). Kiting is still very small, so most the brands are on their pimping their gear, but lots of good honest info as well.

Check out the video section at BEST Kiteboarding as well. That will get you STOKED!!