Toyota Epic - A nice boat?

KurtInCincy · Addict Joined: 06 Mar 2003 Posts: 645 City: Cincinnati OH

Has anyone ridden behind (or in) one of them? How does the quality compare to the quality of the big 3 builders?
They have a 300hp 4.0L Lexus engine which sounds awesome.
And does anybody know why they stopped making them?

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/5/2/78115252.htm

Thanks.

Ralph · Posted: Mar 12, 2005 10:46 am Post subject:

Very nice boat.
I haven't seen one in the flesh but did a bit of research in to them before buying my current boat. There is a great website here: http://www.epicmarine.com/ run by cyclonecj from this site. Check it out, lots of passionate epic owners there.

Ruune · Posted: Mar 12, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject:

yeah great boats... just wish Toyota still made them!

CHiLi DaWg · Posted: Mar 12, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject:

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

Kurt,
They are super nice, built like a tank, and sip gas. They require 1/4 the maintenance and use 61% less gas than a similar boat powered by a Detroit V8. They throw a very nice wakeboard wake, and a fairly sucky ski wake. I am totally biased because I own one and run the Epic website, so take that for what it's worth! I have had my eye on that S22, it is cherry, very low hours. I would only sell my boat to get another Epic, probably a Vdrive.

Toyota is committed to providing factory support until Dec 31 2011, there are gobs of parts for them because they were gearing up to produce lots of them right before they pulled the plug. They only made around 470 of them, but had just opened a new factory in Groveland, Fla. They had some production problems with the 21 foot closed bow boats but those boats were recalled and replaced with new ones. If you own one, you will be the only person around with one.

Here's the site for more info www.epicmarine.com

Pete

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

Duhh, didn't notice that the link was already posted. Thanks, Ralph!

Bowen · Posted: Mar 12, 2005 6:56 pm Post subject:

That is pretty cool/odd that he was able to find a brand new '02 boat in may of '04...

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

There were a few NOS boats that were floating around dealers for a while, the boats were very expensive so they were hard to sell, plus the fact that they pulled out, that didn't help. There is a dealership in Seattle that's got a few new ones left, with full 3yr warrantee. They're asking too much, you can get these boats used pretty darn cheap. The boats cost Toyota 63.5k each to make, they were losing their shirts in the boat biz. The engine alone costs 16k.

Interestingly, there is a company in Utah that is (illegally) selling Toyota clone boats. They tore down a 2001 Epic SX and "splashed" the hull, i.e. made a mold from an existing boat. The clone is like any bad copy, but certain hull and deck features are undeniably straight from a Toyota boat. The company even had the original boat on their lot for a while, with totally wrong graphics and other evidence that the boat had been disassebled and reassembled. It is at another used boat lot right now, still for sale. One of the guys on my site went and visited the factory and confirmed what we suspected. Here's the site http://www.hydroswiftboats.com/cgi-bin/inclin?inview=B1-406&pid=406

Here's a link to the post on my site with the details of our stealth missions:) The pics from the post got wiped out when I changed forum software, but I'll link a pic of the donor boat.

http://www.cyclone-cj.com/forum4/index.php?topic=138.0

this is the splashed boat, examined up close and definitely heavily monkeyed with.

http://www.elesman.com/epic/epicphotos/displayimage.php?album=13&pos=301

KurtInCincy · Addict Joined: 06 Mar 2003 Posts: 645 City: Cincinnati OH

Woah that's pretty crazy about the EOS knockoffs. On that website the caption of the picture says "* Artists conception. Actual picture comming soon. "
That's the ghetto-ist thing i ever did see. A boat mfgr that can't even put a picture of their actual boat up.

ok...enough about that...so they only made 470 of them in the 5 or so years of production?

The 2002 one is out of my price range at $29k Sad

But how about this 1999 model?
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/5/4/78338054.htm
I'm guessing it is a d-drive since it's a 21 footer
whould it throw a decent wake? Or does it only make a good slalom boat (like say, a Malibu Response)

That's amaving that that motor uses 61% less gas...i'd have to see it to believe it.
thanks for the info by the way...i'll read more of your website later tonight

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

I have the numbers from the test, it was tested against a Tige with the 315 HP Mercruiser. My boat has a 27 gallon tank, I've never been able to use even close to a full tank in a day on the lake. I used about 3/4 once. I run 2k worth of weight.

I wouldn't get the closed bow if you are going to wakeboard, you can get a V drive for 3-5k more. MUCH bigger boat, more room, etc. That 2002 boat for 29k is totally like new, hence the high price. You can find a V drive for mid 20's if you look around. I have the D drive open bow, it's great too. If I were looking, I'd probably buy a Vdrive. There was a guy that advertised in the classified section of my site a couple of months ago, he had a 2001 maxed out SX with internal ballast tanks, tower, every option, he'd take 25k or so for it. 105 hours. I shoulda bought it. Somebody got a hell of a deal.

They made them from 99 to 2002, there's only a few 2002's out there. 470 is the number I've heard kicked around, can't verify it but you definitely don't see them everyday.

CHiLi DaWg · Posted: Mar 13, 2005 8:58 am Post subject:

Cyclonecj, 61% less gas Shocked

That would be awesome. Maybe I should have looked for one of them Neutral

I have the Indmar 320 hp efi. It seems to do alright. With 4 guys, 1600lbs, we go thru about 8-10 gallons in an evening. Usually 2 long sets each. It may not be good, but it's a lot better than my old boat.

boardstiff · Soul Rider Joined: 02 Jan 2004 Posts: 264 City: Canada

Why did Toyota discontinue these boats? Is it because they were over priced, just like there cars and trucks? Did they not sell well due to all the other well known companys? Whats the wake like behind the v-drive?I would be interested to see some pics if someone has some. I would be weary of buying any product that has been discontinued. I'm sure your resale value would drop much faster on a product that is no longer being manufactured, aswell as being harder to sell. Does Toyota just dicontinue there ski/wakeboard boat line up? Do they still make other types of boats?

todd · Posted: Mar 13, 2005 1:54 pm Post subject:

Kurt,
If you wanna pull from a Toyota,I'm fairly close in south/central Indiana.Drop me an email at hoosierboarder@yahoo.com.I think cyclonecj could back me up on this;we get nothing but compliments on the Toyotas.The only problems I've had were self-induced.I have a '99 Epic22 d-drive.
I'm installing perfectpass this week & will be ready for a run soon.Thanks to cyclone,perfectpass is now compatible with the 'Yotas.Drop me a line if you wanna get together.
Todd

KurtInCincy · Addict Joined: 06 Mar 2003 Posts: 645 City: Cincinnati OH

Cool, thanks for the offer todd.
The second link i posted on here is for a d-drive that's for sale in Indianapolis. You don't happen to know that guy do you?

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

I don't know that boat, but the Epics were concentrated around a couple of areas of the country where the dealers were. They were very high priced, like the cars and trucks, not overpriced, if you look at them. There are things on these boats the the big three are just getting around to doing, like fly by wire (99) onboard auto ballast with impeller pumps (99) aluminum reinforcements for thru hulls (99) ballast tanks in hull with digital level indicators and helm controls (2001) , a more sophisticated more efficient engine than anything else out there (99) Servo driven BW gauges (99) GPS (2000) no wood, ceramic stringers, Plexus hull bonding (99) Cover for boat when tower is folded, 99. The hulls were designed by a high end naval architect (triano marine design) on computer and plugs were made from his computer models. He's done work for Malibu, and all Centurions since they started not sucking, i.e. enzo, etc. they're badass now.

And, the tower. Do you guys remember the 2000 MC tower? The one that looks like a swingset? Funny, in 2001, they introduced the Zeroflex, which looks like Swoop, which looks like a Proflight, yada yada yada and they all look like a lot like a '99 Toyota tower. And fold like it, which is the main thing that makes it different from a CC tower. It is the sturdiest tower out there. It does not move. Look at the design, you can see why. Look how big the base plates are on the Toyota tower, There are 4x6 .25 in aluminum plates glassed in on every Epic to support a tower.
My boat has a big ass sea strainer on the water inlet, does your boat have one? My boat has a Hurth transmission, same as a Pantera and a Ferrari. Not a Velvet Drive.

When I drilled the holes for my front tower foot, for the speaker wires, the hull was 1" thick plus the aluminum plate. The tower came pre drilled (before powder coating) with a rubber plug on each end and a nylon string threaded through the tower to thread speaker, light wires. We are talking 99, now. All these details, plus the service infrastructure that they created, all web based. In 1999. For warrantee rates, they paid RETAIL to the boat dealer. I had some minor issues with my boat, Toyota paid full price for the dealer to repair things, so my boat was always at the head of the line. That was their commitment, they shot themselves in the foot in a couple of ways, pissed off their dealers by treating them like car dealers, and the fickle inboard market dried up, end of story.

Anyway, end of my rant, but they are a lot of boat for not much money, nothing to be skeered of. Very Happy

todd · Posted: Mar 14, 2005 6:13 am Post subject:

I don't recognize that one.I did see a blue & white X22 for sale in Indy on taht site last week.I'll do some diggin for ya if you want.I think the guy only wanted $24k,I can't really remember.But it wasn't bad.Sweet looking boat.Either way,you're buying a high QUALITY boat.

wakessories · Soul Rider Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Posts: 283

Not sure about a Toyota Epic, but I know a guy in California working on a brand new wakeboard boat. His company is called EPIC BOATS and can be found @ http://www.epicboats.com/ He's in the final stage before putting it on the market. I guess the WAKE is ENORMOUS!!!!

Same creator of www.wakeworx.com

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

That's Chris Anthony, not related to Toyota in any way. He is a good guy, those boats have some revolutionary manufacturing processes, they are gonna be very cool. Top quality. Stronger hulls than anyone else in the industry can offer (resin infused)

Toyota did destructive testing on all competitors hulls, dropped them from a crane until the hulls split, then designed a ceramic stringer system that was stronger than the others. The only other hull that held up was CC.

Flying Tiger · Criminal Joined: 17 May 2004 Posts: 70

The first ones built had a reputation for shoddy quality boat wise.

Teriffic engine & driveline, but the boats itself were reputed to be low quality, and a really harsh ride.

The dealer out here dropped the line after a little over a year.

Shame Toyota has opted out of boat drivelines. Merc pretty much ignors this segment with poor customer service and this segment has opened up to other makers.

Tige' and most the other Wakeboard boat makers no longer offer Mercs.
Marine power and indmar have taken up the slack made from Mercs bad attitude, look for Volvo to jump in soon with their 360 degree steering prop.

Could have been a good op for Toyotas excellent powertrain.