Toyota boats- what'r they like/should I buy

degraafics · Guest

Hey there, just want some opinions.
I can get a good deal on a 2001 Toyota X22. It's got 44 hours on it, so it's pretty much brand new, and I can get it for about $25,000.
I know all about the great engines in these boats and that's why I'm considering it.
Problem is I've never riden behind one, and I have no idea what the wake is like.
So do any of you know what they are like, compared to a "fill in the blank"?
How much will I need to weigh it down to get a good size wake?
I've riden behind a Mobius, an X-star and a Super Air and yes the Super air is the best wake ever, but I can't afford one. (25k is my limit).
And with the Toyota I could get a practically new boat with very little hours and 2years left on the warranty.
So what do you guys think?
Thanks

Syth · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 661 City: Brentwood

The best boat is the one thats paid for, best advice i can give. I never see many toyota's out there, so i cant really give a good advice, but for 25k you can usually find a fairly good used boat for sale from a major wakeboard boat company.

jim Bogden · Outlaw Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 178 City: Sandy, UT

are you sure that warranty is valid eventhough Toyota went out of business last year?

Tim Krasin · Outlaw Joined: 13 Feb 2003 Posts: 104 City: Houston, TX

Talk to the people expected to honor that warranty - is there a local shop willing to do the work in a timely manner or do they not have a real interest in working on these boats? I understood that the X22 should have a pretty decent wake, but the 4.0L engine while at 300 hp is also only at 300ft-lbs. torque - the 2000 PCM GT-40 is 310 hp, but also has like 365 or 385 ft-lbs. torque (if I remembr correctly). The extra torque is really needed when loaded down with weight and not wanting to spend all day accelerating. For such a new boat with only 44 hrs. I'd say it looks good, but not necessarily for the warranty. Most inboards out there will throw a decent wake - work with weight location and most can be improved - plus the boats are clean looking and seem well built (I looked into Toyota before getting a Pro Air Nautique). The other thing to consider is if you need to sell it soon or even way later, how difficult will that be?

trigx5 · Newbie Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 21 City: atlanta, ga

I ride behind a friends x22 and it has a great wake. The boat is solid, no problems and its 4years old. I think he puts stock ballast, a sack in the bow, a sac on either side of the engine compartment and the wake is pro style huge. It did struggle a little out of the hole but a new prop fixed that. He likes his boat and wouldn't sell it if that means anything.

trigx5 · Newbie Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 21 City: atlanta, ga

I ride behind a friends x22 and it has a great wake. The boat is solid, no problems and its 4years old. I think he puts stock ballast, a sack in the bow, a sac on either side of the engine compartment and the wake is pro style huge. It did struggle a little out of the hole but a new prop fixed that. He likes his boat and wouldn't sell it if that means anything.

Ryan_m · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 653 City: glen ellyn

you might find this thread helpful..... http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/46407.html?1048218861

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

They are dogs in the water, campared to all others that is. I thought they could have gone somewhere with them but I guess not.

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

Hey Mullet Man, they are not dogs. They run as fast as anything else, and use 61% less gas! They are built like tanks, the service intervals are every 200 hours instead of every 50 hours, so when you are at Wal Mart having the oil changed on your Malibu, I am out on the lake. Razz

They still have a very active service and parts dept, I just got a lot of little things fixed after three years of bumper to bumper warrantee. A good local dealer helps but they don't break as much as boats made with US V8's. Kind of like their cars. There aren't many parts that are unique to Toyota, other than the engine, they are made out of parts from the same manufacturers as everyone else. The torque thing could be an issue, but I haven't noticed, I run 2200 lbs and four people usually and don't have any problem getting out of the hole. I did put a four blade on it. For more info, go to my website for Toyotas. www.epicmarine.com

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

Hey Mullet Man, they are not dogs. They run as fast as anything else, and use 61% less gas! They are built like tanks, the service intervals are every 200 hours instead of every 50 hours, so when you are at Wal Mart having the oil changed on your Malibu, I am out on the lake. Razz

They still have a very active service and parts dept, I just got a lot of little things fixed after three years of bumper to bumper warrantee. A good local dealer helps but they don't break as much as boats made with US V8's. Kind of like their cars. There aren't many parts that are unique to Toyota, other than the engine, they are made out of parts from the same manufacturers as everyone else. The torque thing could be an issue, but I haven't noticed, I run 2200 lbs and four people usually and don't have any problem getting out of the hole. I did put a four blade on it. For more info, go to my website for Toyotas. www.epicmarine.com

Shawn Madison · Posted: Mar 23, 2003 8:13 pm Post subject:

Tim Krasin, That is pretty much the story-I think Toyota is going to keep parts etc for 10 yrs of last build date.

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

Boy that was a good one, getting my oil changed at Wal Mart, you sure got me there.

Josh R · Posted: Mar 24, 2003 12:03 am Post subject:

I know I'd trust a tech Jap motor over an American hunk of iron any day. Razz

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Josh- The American Engine in question is probably one of the most widely used V8's in the world. The 5.7 liter 350ci Chevy engine has been around for decades. The technology is time tested and proven.

degraafics · Guest

Thanks guys for the advice.
It sounds like it's a pretty good boat. I guess I'll just have to go to the dealer that has it and say, take me for a demo. That's the only real way I'll know if it will be good enough.
I'm used to riding behind a 17' runabout with an IO engine that can hardly pull anyone over 220 lbs out of the water, so I think any inboard I get will be a huge improvement.
Everyone I've talked to about Toyotas says that the company is really handleing their warranties well, so that doesn't worry me too much.
I don't plan on having the boat for 10 years so by the time they stop making parts, I'll have my SANTE. Untill then I think one of the Toy's will do and in the meantime I'll just save up for the next boat.
Happy rid'n!!!

needtoride · Posted: Mar 25, 2003 8:58 am Post subject:

350, or 351 = Very easy to understand and work on.

"Super High Tech" 4.0L = Impossible for you to fix, and SUPER COSTLY to replace.

Also, if you guys understand how an engine stresses, and how horsepower is calculated (Horsepower is a function of torque, and RPM) you would know that an engine that makes 300 ft-lbs of torque, and 300 hp is running at a much higher RPM then an engine making 365 ft-lbs and 300 hp. Then you go back to what you learn in Machine Design, and understand that every component has a cycle life. This means that the more times you spin an engine the closer you get to destruction of components. Of course there are a lot of other factors that will come into play, but that is the main idea any way.

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

The things I was getting fixed were normal wear and tear items, like new grip tape on the trailer, cracked cup holder, new cover for the brake master cylinder that fell off while trailering, etc. anything I could get them to replace under warrantee for FREE after three years and 386 hours. They pay retail shop rates for warrantee work. Does Malibu do that? If they do, great, but not many boat companies do. Toyota has from the beginning and still does.

The engine is definitely a high tech piece, and is super expensive to replace, no doubt. It is 16k. Unlike a Chevy v8, with which I am intimately familiar, it doesn't have pushrods. It also doesn't use a plastic intake manifold that leaks after a couple hundred hours. It also is handmade in Japan, not Mexico, like PCM and Mercruiser and Indmar. Nothing against Mexico, but there is no comparison in terms of quality control. Remember all those posts from last year about engine failures in Malibus? Same cylinder was losing compression in every one with the problem. The Lexus engine has four cams and variable valve timing. It also has 10.5 to 1 compression, it makes more torque for it's displacement than a 50 yr old low compression car engine. My oil is still clean after 200 hours, btw, cleaner than a Chevy after 50 hours. It is not going to wear out as quickly as a US V8. When are you supposed to do a valve job on your Chevy? I think it is at 500 hours. I don't even have to replace plugs until 1000. You will not be able to make a serious argument that Detroit makes longer lasting engines than Toyota, it just is not the case.

The boat was not designed by MBA's, a guy that designed boats for Mastercraft designed the hulls. They definitely had some talented engineers design the interior, you can tell when you compare them to other boats. Malibu just started using the gauge package and layout that Toyota used three years ago! They also used multiple Jabsco impeller pumps in their automatic ballast back in '99. The tower design was immediately ripped off by Mastercraft and Skylon (Swoop). CC's "patent" notwithstanding.

For efficiency, I have a 27 Gal tank. i have yet to use more than 22 gal in a FULL (dawn to dusk with a bunch of kids that don't stop) day of wakeboarding with full ballast ( full fat seat and sack in walk through). i spend about 35$ or 40$ for a full day of wakeboarding, my pal with a VLX pays about 75$

Anyway, don't mean to get any of you Malibu guys pissed off, they are nice boats too. Toyotas are nice and you can get a screaming deal on one. I can buy what I want, I'm going to keep my Toyota. I may buy another one.

hlboatsnboards · Criminal Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 93

uhhh...what are you really defending here? If the boat was so great, then why are they out of business? Not trying to sound like a arse here, just doesn't make sense to defend something that obvisouly failed. Just my .02 tho.

B

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

Like I said, they were down in located down in Torrance. The reason that I know they were only using MBA dorks is because I went on a job interview for a position on the design and marketing team. They turned me down because they said that Toyota was being strict about using the "superior knowledge" of those with MBA and my lowly BS was not sufficient. Nothing against MBA's but that is pretty poor hiring requirements. A friend of mine was doing some consulting on design and performance and often would tell me how poor of listeners they were. He said that there were so many car people involved in the deal that the program finally fell through due to lack of continued interest.

As far as the Guages, what are you referring to? Malibu was the first boat company to use servo driven guages and also the first ski boat company with an in dash computer system back in 1993. They were also the first to offer 5" guages.

Though the Toyota will go longer with out major repairs, the fact is when they begin to go you can't save them. While the Toyota goes to the junk yard you will be able to cheaply rebuild a 350. How many old Toyotas do you see running around? I see a lot of old cars running 350's every day.

seven20 · Posted: Mar 26, 2003 6:35 pm Post subject:

boatsnboards, the reason they quit making the toyota's is because they would have had to make new molds. the molds for the 21 foot boats was crooked, and the boats suffered from chine lock or flip over.

DRAGON88 · Posted: Mar 26, 2003 8:10 pm Post subject:

awsome boat, i rode behind one at TWC great wake great boat, that boat had the engine replaced at about 3500 hrs....

DRAGON88 · Posted: Mar 26, 2003 10:06 pm Post subject:

Not shure if this has been said but.... if the SAN wake is the best wake youve ever ridden, than buy a older Super Sport, same hull, throw on a tower and some balast, and there you have it a SAN! that and Nautiques are really top notch quality and built to last along time. happry hunting..

Ralph · Posted: Mar 26, 2003 11:33 pm Post subject:

What sort of wake is it dragon? VLX rampy or Nauti steep? Did you ride the D-drive or V-drive model?

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

It's rampy with a nice lip when you weight it enough. The engine's light but the hull is very heavy. It is 3/4" thick in places like the tower mounts. Plus glassed in aluminum plates.

As far as the gauges go, I just remember looking at a Malibu ad from 2002 that was bragging about the new gauge packages that are the same ones Toyota had in '99. Malibu and Toyota share the same MDC box made by Borg Warner.

I don't doubt that they had some pointy headed bean counting MBA's running the business side of things, they definitely didn't market them wisely. They had no idea how to deal with comp boat dealers, they treated them like car dealers and alienated many very quickly. The boats were actually manufactured in Groveland Fla. by Maritech.

When my Toyota engine dies I'll put in a 460 ford that I have sitting around. It will fit, the engine hump is huge on that boat, I've already measured. Very Happy

I could buy a crate Toyota marine motor too, they use them for other boats besides their watersports boats. I'd rather stick a big block in, though. I figure I've got time, though. If the lifespan of the engine is around 3500 hours, I've got 27 more years.

Sandbag · Posted: Mar 27, 2003 8:42 am Post subject:

Wow! So many opinions from people who do NOT own a Toyota boat.

mmmmm...

Degraafics, you may want to privately email some Toyota owners if
you want some facts. These kids will dogpile anything they can.

B-rad · Posted: Mar 27, 2003 9:42 am Post subject:

Kind of hard to build a following when the product is out of business. There must be a reason for that somewhere.....

Mullet Man · Outlaw Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 132 City: SoCal

A bige block would be cool. Is there enough room to fit a super charger in too? They make some pretty small ones these days.

DRAGON88 · Posted: Mar 27, 2003 4:44 pm Post subject:

it was the D-drive model and it was rampy whith a good deal of wake, i still like my wake better.

Ralph · Posted: Mar 27, 2003 6:17 pm Post subject:

The nauti wake takes some beating!

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

Why would I need a supercharger with an engine with a 3" dia. crank journal? The crank has more metal in it than a Honda Civic!

degraafics · Guest

Well, I finally went out and checked out this Toyota I found that I was talking about.
Here's my review.
Toyota makes a nice car and a economical to manufacture one at that, because they are very modular the way they're put together.
It looked like they tryed to do the same with their boats.
What's this mean?
It's a great engine, but the interior was sadly lacking.
I've never seen such a cheap interior. The front seats in the bow moved all over. You couldn't sit down without them moving. The foam in the seats didn't spring back quickly or at all. It just looked really cheap.
I could have bought the boat for $24,700, but I can think of tons of other boats that I'd rather have for that.
I'm really glad I looked at the boat.
I drove it for about 20 minutes and wasn't impressed with the wake either. I think it has a better hull design for skiing.
The engines in these might save gas, and thats the main reason I was even looking, but the quality of wormanship is poor on the rest of the boat.
I looked at a new '03 Mobius LSV Gravity Games Edition (sold before I got there), but it sold for $31700 out the door and thats after tax. I think that's a much better deal. Get a brand new boat with full warranty from a company with great customer service, and you won't have to worry about reselling the boat in the future, cause people will know the company will back it.
Now I just need to find the Mobe LSV or a comparable boat.
I'm not spending much more than 30k on a boat and I'd like to get a V-drive, so it looks like that's my best option.

Millertyme · Posted: Apr 03, 2003 1:52 pm Post subject:

Check on Centurion! Priced right and my shop had great service. Love the boat!

Millertyme

Cyclonecj · Soul Rider Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 338 City: Atlanta

You're kidding, right? A moomba interior is nicer than a Toyota? I think you need to take off your "ownership goggles" Moomas are nice cheap boats, but the build quality and materials are nowhere near Toyota or other high end boats. I, for one, think you are FOS and didn't actually test the boat.