Got a Mac, Want a GOOD free editing program

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

check out this

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/video/avidfreedv.html

Avid has put out a free version of Avid DV, It is a full working version and has all of the basic video/audio capabilities that most of u will want/need

so yah. if you dont want to put out a grand for Final Cut. this is an option.

i think they have a free version for windows also..but i dont know where that is. probably there site. i just ran across this on the mac site and thought id put it up here.

Apple also just released IMovie HD...LOL...incase you own a HD camera but cant afford a real editing program....that makes me laugh......a lot.

-James

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

Steve Jobs predicted HDV will be the "next big thing" during his keynote address at MacWorld. He said the same thing a number of years back when Apple introduced iMovie with DV support and I remember a few pros snickered at that! At the time most of your DV Cams were still over 2 grand and very few people had them. iMovie was the app that helped sell thousands of firewire imacs when you couldn't find a firewire port anywhere near a PC. You think maybe the guy that dreamed all that up - including the iPod and the itunes music store amongst many other things and just lead Apple to it's highest quarterly profits ever - might just know a little bit more about where this is all headed then you?

If you think about it, HDV is recorded onto miniDV tape and uses the same sensors, lens and hardware as DV. As soon as Sony and JVC get their R&D money back for the design of the processing chip and software every current $200 miniDV camera will be sporting this format. Please no comments about HDV image quality out of a $200 camcorder! Smile

That free AvidDV is a great program. They stripped all the good stuff out of it but that's to be expected, obviously they want you to buy the whole bundle. They have great student discounts on it as well.

aceyx · Addict Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Posts: 770 City: dirty

i think the joke is buying an HD camera (several thousand dollars) and not being "able to afford" (a few hundred dollars in) editing software, not that HD won't take off.

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

wow...i never claimed to know where any of this was headed. I just think its funny that IMovie has HDV capabilitys now. i think they should work on a few other aspects of the program other than HDV support. It just strikes me as funny that someone that put 5 Grand into an HDV camera would consider editing with IMovie. but i guess those people are out there.

Personaly i think that HDV is just like the digital 8 compaired to High 8. HDV. meaning that there is still one more step to be made.

The HDV cameras are recording to Mpeg2......

Sony has a suprise supposedly for Sundance this next week.

-James

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

HDV support is being built into quicktime so an app that uses quicktime for it rendering engine has HDV support with minor mods. It's not that big of a deal since an HDV stream has a lower data rate then DV. I agree with you the HDV mpeg2 variant needs a lot of tweaking/improvement before it can be considered professionally but then again so did DV originally. Both Apple and Avid have revised their DV codecs at least twice over the years. As far as HDV becoming a dead format like Hi8/digital 8 you could be right. However HD won't completely take over from NTSC until there is a low end format like HDV that the general public can embrace. I personally think that 50 mbs Panasonic format that has HD support sounds like it offers fantastic quality considering it's still a fairly low data rate for an HD signal.

Josh R · Posted: Jan 15, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

I've decided to hold off buying the Sony HDV stuff for a few reasons - One of which is the HDV format itself - and go with a DVX100a. I'm really interested to see where Panasonic takes it's first consumer step into HD. The way they are looking at doing it seems to be a much better alternative than what Sony has set down.

ryanprouty · Newbie Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 36 City: San Francisco

So I try to keep my posts on here and DV.com seperate.. one is work, one is play.. but i just can't help myself...

Ever heard of something.. and think to yourself.. no way.. that won't work... no big deal.. and then you see it. and think.. "wow.. i was TOTALLY wrong" Thats what i thought about HDV

I live in SF, and read all this hype about HDV back when the JVC prototype was release in Japan in Late 2002. I've been reading up on it since...

So i pre-concluded.. mpeg2? come on.. DVD quality? not good enough.. DV still looks better... and that was that.. then.. when Sony released the FX1, they put it out for public demo at the Metreon and DAMN wow.. what a camera. they have it next to the VX2100, and it puts it to SHAME. The gamma is so much better, and they're Cinescan 24 (which is not true 24P, because it has a built in permanet 3:2 pull down built in, which is the same thing the DVX has unless you used the advance mode, but who's gonna transfer to true HD or film anyways) is just as good as Panasonics.

So i have a canon xl1s, but i want something with a native 16:9 ccd, and 24p. XL2 is nice, but it's the same size as the big ol' xl1s, and i want something smaller... I'm heavily considering the new sony Z1U, the latest HDV cam..

Put all things HDV aside, this is still a DVCAM, with native 16:9 CCD's, and 24p with film-like gamma on it, all for 5k.. quite a deal, even if you don't factor in the HDV aspect..

Final conclusion - I found a place nearby thats gonna rent it to me for $250/day.. i'm taking it out with my XL1 and gonna do some side by side comparisons and watch them on my 16:9 hdtv
Can't wait to see if HDV is as good as i think it is...

intersting note: the sony HDV cam's signals aren't compressed until they're put on to tape.. meaning it's only mpeg 2 on the tape.. meaning, if you had it hooked up directly to an HD deck (which yes, I know are like 25k) you could record 100% true uncompressed HD. hmmm...

brinks · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 566 City: Orlando

Good luck editing anything off a prosumer HDV cam.

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

why do you say that?
FCP 5= support for HDV

I actualy just read a review on the z1u, and it said that with quick motion shots there were noticable artifacts. and that it looked crappy, and was a nightmare when transferd to film. the z1u only captures at 25 Mbs per sec.

HDV is so new that even though the z1u is the first of the HDV cameras to be in the Pro-sumer line. I would wait, Especialy with panisonics new P2 technology that they will be introducing soon which is basicaly capturing HD footage onto a solid state drive. Which ryan mentiond if they dont compress the HD signal, and it writes onto a solid state drive, it wouldent have to compress onto a DV or DVCAM tape.

personaly im waiting for Panasonic p2 tech. and Canon's take on HDV

-James

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

A couple of thoughts:

1) How does HDV handle high motion video (ala wakeboarding) and how good will slo-motion look when rendered out in an NLE?

2) How good is the DVCam portion of the camera. Unless it's just fantastically better then the DVX100 I'm not sure I would spend the $ for the Sony based on that alone. The 16:9 CCDs do sound enticing however.

ryanprouty, Interesting comment about streaming video into a true HD deck. I'm curious how one would connect that camera to a Pro HD deck, the camera doesn't have SDI out does it?

I would love to see some comparison footage once you've tried it.

89comp · Posted: Feb 22, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject:

RD-
just wait till summer...i'm working on a video that will have some HD footage in it...

JamesWatts · Addict Joined: 21 Feb 2003 Posts: 685 City: Santa Monica

the z1u has component out

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

JamesWatts,

Isn't that RGB component out? (as opposed to a BetaSP type signal) That's for playback to a similarly equipped TV. Most of these pro HD decks use an SDI interface.

89comp,

We're going to start working on our next project this spring. I'd really like to know what HDV is capable of before we invest in a couple of those units! I look forward to seeing your work.

brinks · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 566 City: Orlando

HDV compresses into mpeg 2 format on the tape. When an HDV camera is conected to a HD screen and played the footage is amazing. As soon as you pull it into an editing program and start to edit, everything gets screwed up. The difference between HDV (prosumer) and HD (proffesional) cameras is how it captures and converts the footage. An HD camera captures uncompressed. HDV converts in camera to MPEG 2. Basiclly it only captures full frames every third or fourth frame and all the frames inbetween only capture an arm or leg (what ever moves in the frame) and then interprets (S/P?) the rest of the frame from memory of the first full frame capture. So when you edit you will end up with arms and legs missing or in the wrong place. Plus it is MPEG 2! That is like sticking a dvd in your editing program and cutting it then recompressing it out. It's going to look like sh1t. If you are serious about editing HD, pony up the dough and rent or buy a HD camera $65k to start.
FCP HD was made to edit HD cam footage not HDV footage. It can but it will look bad.
I hope I gave a good explanation. If I didn't just do some research on some of the editing boards.

ryanprouty · Newbie Joined: 16 Dec 2004 Posts: 36 City: San Francisco

you got your facts all wrong.. the whole digitizing thing is udderly wrong.. and FCP 4.5 will play HDV footage, just doesn't have a native codec in it, not until FCP 5, which is rumored to be released at NAB this year.. honestly, i hated this format until i saw some raw footage: http://www.vasst.com/HDV/FX-1_images-Surfers.htm download this, and play it on a pc with window media 9... this stuff looks AMAZING, and it's obviosly been digitized

RD · Addict Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Posts: 626 City: Discovery Bay

Brinks,

How can you get an uncompressed HD signal out of the Sony into an HD production monitor or deck? Is the RGB component signal out of that cam uncompressed?

I think they've figured out how to edit that I frame based mpeg that HDV uses, isn't it similar to the BetaSX format (which is also mpeg based I believe) that Sony introduced a couple of years ago? I believe Ryan is correct about the native codec being introduced with FCP5.

Boy, I've got to get away from the photo boards and get back up to speed with all the new HD - HDV!

brinks · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 566 City: Orlando

RD,
I don't know if the signal coming out of the camera is uncompressed. I think it is compressed because it compresses when it goes to tape. What I am saying is that I have seen raw footage shot with an HDV cam and when it was pluged into and played on a HD tv the footage and picture quality looked incredible. You can pull this footage into final cut and output it and it will look very good. What I was getting at is that everything gets weird in the editing process. I 've seen what happens. While your editing the computer is trying to draw in frames and when you think everything is all good you watch your final edit and every thing is all out of sync and you edits are all wrong and different from your original cut. I don' know if I am explaning this right but bad things happen to good footage when you edit HDV. Ryan was also right about the picture artifacting as soon as there is motion across the frame. When you get in a boat and start bouncing around the picture quality goes to hell. I hope things are better after NAB. I'll just have to see when I get there. Anyone else going?