HELP: Pro-Americans!

King of the Tigers · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 11:59 am Post subject:

I agree with you Seth. If anything I think it's wrong that we didn't act sooner.

Todd Armstrong · Addict Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 758 City: Battle Ground

My comment was directed to Andy's last sentence.

There are a million treats to Americans here and abroad, how come there is such an emphasis on Saddam? I think Americans need a villian and closure after 9/11, Bin Laden and Saddam are the 2 most hated people by American, we need them to be punished, or killed. I have heavy recearched the Gulf War and all the BS that surrouded it. If you look at the huge failure of Vietnam and how we tryed to occupy them, you will see that America is not the big brother of the world who needs to be taking care of everything. Will Iraqi be Vietnam 2, no only because of the terrain, there is not a vast system of anti- invader structers and terrain like in Vietnam afters years of battle with the French.

The reason we did not liberate Iraqi and get rid of Saddam in 1991 was because Bush and Swartzkoff faied to complete their jobs. They did 95% of what they needed but were afraid to occupy Iraqi due to the fact that it could become another Vietnam. How is that fear any different 12 years later? Saddam is evil, ther is a legitamate threat to Americans, but it is not Americans job to police the world, why don't we liberate alot other contries were people are being brutalzed by their own government?

I have yet to state my real opinon. I am a pround American who would fight to protect my family and country. I pray for the troops and are behind them completely. I feel action needs to be taken against Iraqi, but not halfass like in 1991. I feel war protester have the right to protest in an orderly, peaceful fashion to have their voices and opinons heard. I support my country when I feel it is in the right, not because they are the majority. I will not be a sheep and follow blind and mindlessly, right or wrong, just because my goverment tell me. I feel ANYONE who 100% supports this war and sees this as the right thing to do is choosing to be ignorant to the facts than this is not 100% right. People will die, good and bad but realize there is no 100% right or wrong.

I support America, it does not mean I have to agree with my government's choice.

Syth · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 661 City: Brentwood

If we dont police the world, who else will?

I fully support everything our country is doing, and the only thing that pisses me off are the missinformed protesters that have no clue whats really going on, their just sheep, protesting against what they dont understand

No blood for oil, gah, there needs to be a minimum IQ to protest Evil or Very Mad

ohsix · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:26 pm Post subject:

Todd Armstrong · Addict Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 758 City: Battle Ground

Bush (America) promised Iraqi rebels that the would support their coup of Saddam.
Bush told the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam and we would help. We did no such thing. That is were Bush failed, he assumed that Saddam's army was too weak to stop the uprising of the people. During the seize fire Swarfzkoff signed the treaty that gave Iraqi the right to fly helicopters, armed helicopters. He mad the biggest mistake by letting Saddams army to use those helicopter to slaughter the rebels. Two big mistakes that directly lead to Saddam still being in power. There are two people to blame for the lack of resolve after Deserst Storm, Bush and Swartzkoff.

Todd Armstrong · Addict Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 758 City: Battle Ground

There are 100's of accounts of us troops crying as they watched the Iraqi people being killed by the Republican Guard right in from of them , but they were order to not do anything.

Todd Armstrong · Addict Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 758 City: Battle Ground

Here is link to an excellant source of Gulf War facts. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/longroad/

ohsix · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 1:52 pm Post subject:

im still under the impression that the objective of the gulf war was to stop iraq from taking over kuwait and this was the job of the U.N. it had nothing to do with liberating iraq or overthrowing saddam's government.

Andy · Newbie Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 43 City: Syracuse,NY

Todd I did do my own reseach and I concured that Sadam is breaking the laws of the UN by having his weapons. Because the UN is not enforcing their laws we need to step in before he uses his weapons on us or on other countries. I think its better to dissarm him now because if we wait any longer things could get out of hand. If things did get out of hand most people would complain why we didnt do somthing to dissarm him. That is why we are going in now so another September 11 doesnt happen.

Shawn Madison · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 2:18 pm Post subject:

Seth Martin, Exactly Seth!

Todd Armstrong, Give us the facts of your research! Maybe we are doing it wrong or something!

wes reeves, Thanks Wes-I got the same response! I appreciate your assistance!

Jello John · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 1936

Forwaken – I said I support our troops because I don’t want harm to come to them. My post wasn’t worded very well I guess. And you should know my answer to that first question.

Andy – A few scud missiles is hardly a reason to go into an all out war against Iraq. I like how you guys keep linking Saddam with terrorism. Saddam and al-quida (sp?) are NOT working together. First of all, Iraq is a secular nation, why would he support an Islamic terrorist. Secondly, there is little evidence of Saddam and Bin Laden communicating in the first place.

I think it’s pretty ignorant of some of you guys to say protesters are uninformed. Many of you pro-war guys are just as stupid on this subject.

Andy · Newbie Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Posts: 43 City: Syracuse,NY

I never said he was linked with al-quida. Although he has funded terrorist attacks on embassys in the past. And we arent going to war over a few scud missles. We are going to war because we have reason to believe that he has weapons of mass destruction. If he didnt have those weapons dont you think that he would have let the UN inspectors into his country in the first place? It seems kind of obvious that he has those weapons. I mean I have a problem with him sitting around with those weapons but if you dont thats your opinion.

wakeriderof87 · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 3:15 pm Post subject:

Ok, what i'm missing here is where you say he called protestors Anti-American, yes he said that he needs help from Pro Americans but he did not say that everybody else is Anti American. What he meant was ppl who's Pro- American views. I agree with Todd Armstrong that we do not need to go into there thinkin we don't want there to be causlties. There are going to be casualties, thats what war is. What got us in trouble in vietnam is that we went in there not to wipe out the north vietnamese, but to free the South Vietnamese. We didn't go in there to kick ass, we went in there to keep from having asses kicked. Same thing with desert Storm. I don't know that much about desert storm, because i was not around back then. But I have studied vietnam intensevely and do know what i'm talking about pretty well on this subject.

ohsix · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 3:53 pm Post subject:

forwaken · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 635 City: Turlock, CA

To all anit-war people-

Please explain to me logically how you can publicly protest the war and at the same time support the troops fighting? Maybe I am missing something but it doesn't seem anyone has answered this question yet. Plenty have facts(?) have been given why we should or should not be at war, but nothing about being publicly anti-war and pro-troops at the same time. This is what I have a problem with.

Chad

devo · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 6:29 pm Post subject:

I dont care if you are for or against the war but when it hits the fan get behind our troops so they know we support them and it will keep their morale up so we can bring them home sooner.

By the way I support the war and our president and our country.

Think of it this way. With all the craters we are making over there they can fill tham with water and they can learn to wakeboard, therefore making the world a better place.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Jello John- Saddam's regime is more specifically Sunni Muslim which is a sect of Islam.

JHrod · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 3144

all anti war people think about it like this:

Saddam will not seek United Nations approval before he try's to kill us.

If you have faith in the United Nations to do the right thing, keep this in mind. They have Libya heading the Committee on Human Rights and Iraq heading the Global Disarmament Committee. Do your own math here.

President Bush and Saddam Hussein.....Hussein is the bad guy

Whether you are for military action, or against it, our young men and women overseas are fighting for us to defend our right to speak out. We all need to support them without reservation.

~dennis leary

devo · Posted: Mar 21, 2003 6:55 pm Post subject:

Lets review the facts.

1. We did not sign a peace treaty with Iraq. We signed a cease fire.(there is a diff) He has violated the terms of the cease fire which gives us the legal right to attack.

2. Iraq said when signing the cease fire that they only needed 15 days to disarm. It has been over 4500 days since then

3. There have been 17 united nations resolutions that demanded Iraq to disarm.

4. When the inpectors were kicked out in 1998 they documented that Iraq had several tons ov chemical and biological weapons.

5. UN resolution 1441 din not say that the inspectors had to find WMD (weapons of mass destruction). It said that Iraq had to prove that they did not have them, and explain what happened to the wmd that we knew they had in 1998. The said they never had those.

6. Saddam Hussian is responsible for the death of over 2.5 million arabs. (thousands of which were his own people.)

7. He has been shooting Scud missles at Kuwait. Missles he is not supposed to have.

I could go on but I am going to go appreciate the fact that I am free to do what I want to do (just like the Iraqi people will be able to do soon). I am proud of my country and I am proud of our troops and I am proud to be and AMERICAN. Very Happy

Jello John · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 1936

Jello John · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 1936

Jello John · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 1936

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

John- Talk to your teacher about it... He/she is definatly misinformed.

Todd Armstrong · Addict Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 758 City: Battle Ground

Turk look at the MASSIVE protest all over the world, not just here but in alot of countrys, fact is America is not blindly right. Think about it, 100,000's of people all can't be crazy.

Look at alot of the facts and they say wha twe are doing is wrong, alot of facts say we are right. There is no 100%

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Todd that's a logical fallacy and an invalid argument... Appeal to the people (direct). You are relying on the fact that just because everyone is protesting it makes them right.

The United States has chosen to circumvent the UN in this matter due to the lack of ability to enforce it's own treaties. Britain and Australia have supported the USA in this effort. The outcome will justify the means, but in the meantime historically shortsided countries (France) and people (anti-war protesters) will continue to be upset.

Todd Armstrong · Addict Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 758 City: Battle Ground

How is it invalid?

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I edited my post to elaborate on how the fallacy makes your argument invalid.

Dragonlady8 · Guest

Norcal ~ You mean sophistry?

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Phantom- both ways are right. Isn't sophistry deceptive reasoning? I just pointed out the informal fallacy commited.

Todd Armstrong · Addict Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Posts: 758 City: Battle Ground

I agree wit you Nor*Cal but I am saying there are 2 very logical sides to this debate, it just means you are not necesserily right or wrong. You just have your opinin and I have mine. I support our troops but I don't approve of Bush's plan, simplae as that.

Dragonlady8 · Guest

NorCal~ Sophistry is a word that open for interpretation as much as this topic.
(see below)

1 : an argument apparently correct in form but actually invalid; especially : such an argument used to deceive

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Todd- I'll agree that everyone has a different world view. This issue has brought out 2 very different world views. I also agree that war is a terrible thing. In a perfect world diplomacy works. However I believe the actions of Bush are justified given the facts and historical relevance of these facts. I also believe that those not supporting the war are often misinformed or are mislead. I am trying to demonstrate to those who are not supporting this war why it is valid and neccessary.

forwaken · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 635 City: Turlock, CA

Jello- that still is not answering the question. Your begging the question (I believe that is the specific fallacy) which is also a fallacy meaning your give everything but the answer to my specific question. I seems to me you are giving me your specific feelings rather than answering my question. If you do not publicly appose the war then fine, I can agree with you. Keeping it personal would not be degrading the troops, ranting and raving on the streets where they can see it, that is degrading to the troops.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Thanks Phantom... I was trying to look that word up. I actually just found my College Logic book. Wow the memories...

forwaken · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 635 City: Turlock, CA

I prefer to forget those memories Nor-Cal. Laughing

To this day Critical Thinking is my toughest class I have ever taken and I took it at the J.C. The professor was cool, I just felt that it was being taught like we were in a graduate class.