Winterizing - engine won't suck antifreeze...

lyrch · Newbie Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 9 City: Springfield

Ok, first year for my Supra Saltare w/ a PCM 454. Time to winterize.

I connected a funnel/garden hose to the water inlet hose to the engine (where I'd normally connect a garden hose to run engine when not in the water), closed the valve behind this 'T' in point, filled the funnel with RV Antifreeze, started the engine....and nothing. The engine didn't suck the antifreeze through. I though maybe the thermostat had to open up, so I left it running for a bit. Waited till the water temp gauge hit 195, then shut it off - I was afraid of damaging something.

I removed one of the main water hoses going into the water pump, and it was empty. I poured over a gallon of antifreeze (probably closer to 1.5 gallons) to fill it. I thought maybe this would prime the water pump.

Tried starting the engine and sucking water through again....no dice.

Am I doing something wrong? Is my impeller shot? Shouldn't it suck the antifreeze through right away - or would the thermostat have to get up to temperature?

Also, whats the deal with what appears to be 2 water pumps. Is one the "priming pump" (impeller?) and the other a standard water pump? I'm familiar with car engines, but boat are new to me.

Thanks for any tips/advice!

Barry

Schmo · Posted: Oct 04, 2004 4:52 pm Post subject:

Ouch, if you left it running for a bit and it wasn't sucking any liquids through the engine, I would be willing to bet that your impeller is burnt to a crisp. Yes, water/antifreeze should get sucked up right away, however you would want to run water through it first until the engine warms up to full temperature and then run antifreeze through. You want to get the antifreeze through all parts of the cooling system.

lyrch · Newbie Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 9 City: Springfield

yeah...I was afraid thats the response I'd get. I've heard it should be changed every year anyway - so I'll get one ordered.

If anyone knows this engine (PCM 454), are there two pumps? A standard pump like on any engine, and another about 10 inches below it? Is the second one below the impeller?

(guess I need to order a service manual too)

intotheflats · Posted: Oct 04, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:

Yep sounds like your impellor but there is no nead to change it every year. I would check on it every year but if it ain't broke, leave it alone.

As far as antifreeze you mentioned 1.5 gallons. I hope you are using much more than that. A V8 engine will hold at least 5 gallons. You should run the engine with antifreeze until you see it coming out the exhaust, pure antifreeze not watered down either.

DiyGuy · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Dec 2003 Posts: 460

If you MUST use antifreeze, add some BLACK or dark BLUE food coloring to the mix. When the exhaust starts pumping out colored water, that is a good (not completely total) hint the engine has anti in it.

And yes, the engine MUST be at operating temp before adding antifreeze/water, as the thermostat will simply divert most of it from the engine water pump and right into the exhaust headers, with very little actually getting into the engine.

Why is it that Indmar (according to thier manual) just says and shows to just drain the block with no word of antifreeze? And, show me an engine that holds 5 gallons of water inside - good trick if it can be done. Even most cars closed systems only take a couple or so...

tommyadrian5 · Addict Joined: 16 Sep 2003 Posts: 907

DiyGuy, the mufflers hold about 2 gallons themselves.

wesgardner · Posted: Oct 05, 2004 4:19 am Post subject:

Hey lyrch,

Mine is an older version of yours...there are two pumps - one is the standard water pump like on an automobile, the other is part of the "marinization" of a standard Chevy motor and is usually refered to as the "raw water pump" as it is intended to suck water out of whatever you're floating in and deliver it to the motor. It is usualy bronze and is driven directly off the CRANKSHAFT - can't miss it, it's right on the front down low (or at least mine is...I still can't find my dagone camera, sorry). You should change your impeller every year - it's great low-cost insurance...also be forwarned 454's will be hard on starters...

Oh, go to skiDIM's web site and look around, there are pics of pumps, impellers, etc. to fit your motor...I just had to change out my raw water pump this year....no big deal...what IS a big deal is if the impeller cooks off and you don't realize it....oh yeah, my boat also DOES NOT have a high-temp alarm/shut-down system as some of the modern boat have...

Wes

intotheflats · Posted: Oct 05, 2004 11:01 am Post subject:

DiyGuy, I wasn't actually saying that the engine holds 5 gallons, just that it needs 5 gallons run through it to flush out all the water. If you only run 1 or 2 gallons through it will mix with the water and not be strong enough to protect the engine.

As far as draining the engine, this could work. The problem is it is almost impossible to drain all the water out. Even if you pull every plug and drain the water, there is still pockets where the water will stay. If you flush it with antifreeze, it will "push" that water out and replace it with antifreeze.

Dave W · Posted: Oct 05, 2004 12:59 pm Post subject:

Hmmm..... Ever since I've gotten my D/D ski boat, we've just hooked a five gallon bucket full of antifreeze up to the water intake and drained the bucket and considered it done. I've never thought about letting the engine get up to temperature before. Anyone know how necessary it is? We've never had any problems before and last january was DANG cold. But now that you guys have brought it up it's making me kind of paranoid. Confused

intotheflats · Posted: Oct 05, 2004 1:08 pm Post subject:

If you don't get teh engine up to running temp the thermostat won't open and you will have water left in there all winter long. If you warm it up first using water from a garden hose, the thermostat will open. Then when you run your antifreeze in it will fill the thermostat housing too.

wesgardner · Posted: Oct 06, 2004 4:07 am Post subject:

Hey Dave W,

As flats says, this is pretty SOP to let the motor get up to temperature...you should also do an oil change, mist the cylinders and stabilize the fuel....

I'm a bit from the old school but having switched from the older glycol based automobile antifreeze (which is what EVERYONE used to use to winterize their boats) to this newer pink stuff, I now consider myself a modern man. I've winterized hundreds of boats, but always ran them up to temperature, I never drained them, I just let the water pump suck the antifreeze thru the block until it came out the exhaust.

So take your pick, drain your block if a wanna, but DO run the motor up before winterizing...

Wes