Shorting the back roll

Mr. Mutt · Posted: Jul 27, 2004 2:48 pm Post subject: Shorting the back roll

SO I'm starting to try the back roll and am not having too much success with it. I am obviously underrotating, and I have to think it's being caused by me trying to throw the flip too early (ie, "pushing" the board instead of letting it get thrown). Video attached:

http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4881

At takeoff I'm extending, but then I seem to be pushing the board forward out from under me and trying to initiate the flip early (cause I've been underrotating). I don't seem to be getting the good pop, nor do I seem to be getting around enough. In addition, it appears like the board is going directly around as opposed to being "rolled". What I mean is that at the point I'm upside down, the board is perpendicular to the direction of boat travel, whereas I see in Detention and Wakeboarder Mag the board at that point is parallel to the direction of boat travel. Any help would be appreciated!

wakerider285 · Criminal Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 50 City: Tequesta

first u gota get ur progresiver edgwe better.........i used to have the same problrem when learnin brolls.....ur rite bou tpushin the board........when i do em i think bout ridin up the wakeand as ur board goes up the slant lean back so ur directly above th board ....u kno liek as it tilts so do u..and u just kepp that motion....thats th ebest i can do......just work on uir edge and ull get it in no time..

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

Like wakeboarder285 said more of a progressive cut would help...
Also, try standing tall at the bottom of the wake, you are in a sitting position in your vid. You want to leave the wake standing tall. Then cut away from the boat and put your chin on your lead shoulder, keep your elbows bent and into your hips, and hang on....Oh and keep your eyes open to spot your landing....
good luck! Let me know how the next session goes...

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

Great try.
More of a progressive edge in to the wake
Stand tall at the wake
cut away from the boat
put your chin on your lead shoulder and think up and away
keep elbows into your hips
spot landing
good luck
let me know how it goes

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

sorry for the doulble entry...
something corky went on w/my computer and I didn't know the first went through Embarassed

jgates · Outlaw Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 158 City: Rome, NY

Damn that's tough to read..

Mr. Mutt · Posted: Jul 27, 2004 9:45 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the advice! I'll be out Saturday and will give the suggestions a try. Standing tall, up and away, lead shoulder...I'll let you know how it goes!

wakeguy2008 · Addict Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 847 City: Ft. Myers

uh back in the day.lol.jk....when i did what u are talking about i relized that i needed alot of air to do inverts.....my friend talked me into trying a raley and that didnt go well but i relized how to do a backroll.....by throwing the rotation ur stealin all ur pop.....let the wake do all the work.....gather up some speed ( u dont need much ).....focus on just a regular wake jump and dont throw the rotatio just ride up the wake and there u go.

savage3221 · Posted: Jul 28, 2004 2:51 pm Post subject:

take a SUPER prgressive cut, it will be very slow and relativly short. have it build up speed very quickly, peaking at the wake. this builds up the line tension that is what does the rotation FOR you. now not having to worry about hucking the rotation, you can worry about your pop, grabs, how you land, and spins.

good luck with it dude

Mr. Mutt · Posted: Aug 08, 2004 10:32 pm Post subject: Just can't get it

So I was on the Delta today, tried a few backrolls. Again, it feels like I am still doing reverse cartwheels rather than rolling. I know I am in the wrong position cause in all the pics I've seen of pros doing rolls, they are NEVER in a position to take a nose dive or a front edge. That seems to be all I do is take headers or front edges. How can I get so that I roll more than cartwheel? My board is parallel to MY direction of travel, rather than in the direction of the boat travel when I'm inverted, which is how I know I'll all jacked. Help! The last digger knocked the wind out of me and my chest STILL hurts.

Thanks!

J_DOGG · Posted: Aug 12, 2004 12:32 pm Post subject:

Mr. Mutt, Ok I checked out your clip up top there... and this is what I would like to add to the other great advice already given...

One, you are starting out kind of wide, not too wide but prob. a bit more than you should for the first few attempts. The trick is to start your cut from a distance that will force you to stay on the progressive edge up the entire wake. starting out too far just causes people to generate too much speed and hold the same line into the wake, that is not a progressive edge.

Secondly, You need to lock the handle to your hips, your arms control your rotation. let them out you go slow, keep them in tight and you rotate faster. You start your cut with your arms out too far and never get them in close at the wake. Leaving early will not help incorrect handle placement so control what you can and that's the handle.

Jack that puppy right in to your waste as hard as you can before you even start your approach and hold it in tight all the way up the wake. The leaving early problem will go away once you land a few and can start to spot the landing better.

MY 2 cents..

love2ride · Newbie Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 2

A followup question:

I've read quite a few threads on this, and they all seem to say "hard progressive edge" and "keep handle close". My confusion is, this seem like exactly what I do to just jump. How is the backroll different than a normal jump? Am I supposed to edge harder than normal or something like that?

thanks.

wakeguy2008 · Addict Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 847 City: Ft. Myers

yeah ppl forget that u edge the SAME EXACT WAY u do on a wakejump...

ppl that take to wide of approch will have a hell of a time learnin the backroll.

DJew Jake · Posted: Aug 16, 2004 9:18 pm Post subject:

Doing the backroll wait till you think your in the air to tilt your head back if you think that way you will rotate at the right moment if u try to rotate at the wake you will not pop stand tall THEN fling your head think of it in 2 steps while rotating it will feel slow like you wont get around but you will.

love2ride · Newbie Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 2

So you're saying to do everything exactly the same up the wake as you would for a jump, but then when you leave the wake, look up over your lead shoulder? Is anything different about the approach at all?

Amy · Criminal Joined: 27 Apr 2004 Posts: 92 City: State College

Look over your lead shoulder, and it's not a cartwheel rotation so you shouldn't be looking directly up. It's more of an off axis type. when u look over your lead shoulder, you should be looking on a diagonal line, up from your lead shoulder: I hope I'm explaining this clearly to you... Please let me know if this is hard to understand.... goood luck and think up and away on this trick always...

HkySk8r187 · Newbie Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 42 City: Oxnard

I'm wondering if I am also rotating too early or if I am starting the roll at the right time...I realize this isn't quite a backroll but please watch the video and let me know if I need to wait longer before the roll or if I'm ok. Thank ya.

http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=5298&password=&sort=7&thecat=3133

wakeguy2008 · Addict Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Posts: 847 City: Ft. Myers

HkySk8r187, looks like ur throwin it off the wake.

boardertj · Newbie Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 11

no id say cut harder than a regular wake jump and cut all the way through the wake instead of lettin it up right b4 u hit it

pooser · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 4738

wakeguy2008, where are you supposed to throw it? actually you dont really throw backrolls you just edge away from the boat and it just kinda kicks you around.

Xbrdr1 · Outlaw Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 161

Most important tip is to build edge up through the top of the wake and stand tall with chest up.

kuehn · Outlaw Joined: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 186 City: London. UK

Just looking at the responses. your cut isnt too bad at all. but you lack standing tall at the top of the wake on edge. in other words looking at the vid your legs go all FLOPPY. i bet you dont do that on a normal heelside wake jump! Be more aggressive at the top of the wake not before riding through the wake ON EDGE.
Before attempting get your mind clear and and do a couple of heelside jumps first, make them nice and poppy, not going for grabs or anything like that, just extend your legs on take off and keep them really extended till you land. notice the line tension all the way through the jump. If you look at the vid your line tension goes as soon as you leave the wake.
good luck and i hope you get dialed in soon. i have a good feeling you will get it very soon.