4- N.Korean Migs and a U.S. spy plane.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I lived with 5 eastern europeans over the summer so I got a new perspective on things.

Josh R · Posted: Mar 04, 2003 9:03 pm Post subject:

"BOMB, BOMB, BOMB!!!!!"

Wow, some of you dickheads really do scare me... Shocked

On the other hand, unlike the Iraq situation, Nth Korea is starting to scare me and I think something should be done. As long as Nukes don't get involved...

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

We don't hear the same news you guys (australians) get. What is your media saying about all this? What is your governments response or stance towards N. Korea?

Josh R · Posted: Mar 04, 2003 9:52 pm Post subject:

Our governments stance is basically whatever yours is. We don't want any sort of falling out between our major allies, Britain and America. We're pretty much a puppet that George Bush is controlling.
This alliegence puts us at odds with the rest of the region, ie. Indonesia and Malaysia. (Hence the fact that 88 innocent Australians were killed by Indonesian terrorists in Bali)
I remember reading some slightly scarey stuff in the newspapers about their views towards us when I was in Malaysia.

The media is taking the same stance they do towards everything political. A slightly cynical view of government policies. Korea is viewed as a genuine threat towards us, as they have the capabilities to attack us. Iraq... People are still debating about Iraq.

Feeling on the street... Not sure, but it's not as pro american as some may think.

Thats my view anyway, certainly not the gospel, so take it for what It's worth.

jedsterr · Soul Rider Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 291 City: Star Idaho

The cost of obtaining freedom is great. We paid, and contiue to pay, both monitarily and with the lives of patriots who chose to serve the country. It is only logical that we would go to great lengths to defent that freedom and to offer it's advantages to others. Those who threaten our freedom and safety will suffer loss of their own freedom and possibly their life. Sadam is clearly a threat to the safety and health of each american, not to mention every inhabitant of the earth. Iraq has produced enough anthrax and botulism(sp?) to kill the world population three times over. The stockpile of these agents is presently unaccounted for. UN inspectors documented their existence 5 years ago. Now it's all gone & no one can prove that it's been destroyed. When I learned this on a History Channel programm called Sadam's Arsenal I was allarmed! The same program also profiled two incidents where Sadam ordered the use of such bio-toxins on human populations. The images of the tumors & birth defects & whole families dead in the street, clinging to their little children are enblazened in my mind. I have no reservations in my support for the removal of Sadam. Upon his removal we will offer the opportunity for the Iraqi people to govorn them selves. It will be a painful and costly process for them to attain their freedom, just as it was and is for us. If they are lucky, someday their children will be on the internet chatting freely about whether they agree with what their govenment is doing just like we are today.

-J

ohsix · Posted: Mar 04, 2003 10:07 pm Post subject:

Josh R · Posted: Mar 04, 2003 10:25 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I totally understand that we paid a much smaller price than you Americans. But it was still a very, very high price for our views. A lot of the same things were said about the Bali Bombings too. Some Islamic leaders came out and said it was a great thing.

Also about the "not as pro american as some may think" I should also clarify that it's not anti american either like in some of Europe. I think pro/anti american is really the wrong word. It sound so much more hateful. It should be anti/pro american POLICY.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I think in this stage of world history there is a backlash against first world nations, USA, UK, Australia, and others. I understand the image that most the world holds Americans to and it is not always pleasant. Josh keep us up to date on your side of things it is good to know what they are saying else where.

ohsix · Posted: Mar 04, 2003 10:41 pm Post subject:

I understand your point of view about the anti-ameican thing. I think we all get altered views of the truth about the u.s and iraq though and i really dont know exactly what to believe so i think about it as rationally as i can. In an earlier post you said something like "bomb bomb bomb, some of you dickheads really do scare me" im sorry that you get that impression but the majority of us do not feel that way or at least i dont think we do and i think the people that say that aren't serious and if they are they are showing a lot of immaturity.

BillJ · Posted: Mar 04, 2003 11:10 pm Post subject:

And now we're sending B1B and B52 bombers to Guam so they'll be in range of N. Korea. The situation in Iraq doesn't scare me, N. Korea does. In many ways they are much more desperate than Iraq. I do believe that they are threatening us to get financial aid - a sort of nuclear blackmail - but that doesn't mean the threat isn't real. N. Korea has the ability to start a war with US and S. Korea at any time, they have been preparing for almost 50 years.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Bill do you think improving relations will China might help our struggle with Korea?

nick e[V]ans · Posted: Mar 05, 2003 3:18 am Post subject:

no way, my arrogance and power is much to intimidating to need to china for any assistance whatsoever. j/k but i wouldn't be the only australian to hold similar views. not trying to bad mouth your president, but the way the media portrays him down here, that isn't such a hard opinion to hold. thanks for taking my opinion seriously forwaken

BillJ · Posted: Mar 05, 2003 8:45 am Post subject:

Improving relations with China definitely couldn't hurt - China has been N. Korea's biggest supporter for a long time (as I'm sure you are aware). With pressure from China and Russia it would be a lot easier to settle this problem. The interesting thing to me is the apparent lack of reaction/concern from the rest of the international community.

My fear with the bombers is the idea of brinksmanship. We escalate and posture, then they do, so we step it up. Next thing you know there's an "incident" and events spiral out of control in a way no one can predict. And you can't forget the cultural issues involved such as saving face. It would be very difficult if not impossible to force a leader like Kim Jong il to back down - he has to be given a way out that saves his dignity.

And that's why I'm more concerned about the situation in Korea than Iraq.

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

N. Korea doesn't really work with the MAD theory, first of all it is only speculative that their missiles can reach us, they are not tested. Additionally, it takes along time for a missile to come all that way and I think we have the means to intercept it. Furthermore, the reason MAD worked with Russia and the U.S. is because neither country could eliminate all the others countries launchers in a first strike. Both countries had many silo's all around the world, submarines, probably even satellites. Both Russia and U.S. would also know almost immediately of a launch, enabling them to fire return missiles before their launchers were destroyed. N. Korea does not have these things, if we nuked them that would that, end of story...except for all the other angry countries.

I'm not worried about N. Korea, N.Korea is just doing what they do, threat and whine until they get some $$. Plus, even their allies, China and Russia are on our side.

Nick
________
Breakup advice dicussion

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Otto- I agree with with your point about MAD but N. Korea has a standing army of a million or so troops. That's there biggest threat. I think the USA is more interested in Japan and S. Korea stepping up to their own defense right now. It seems as though the United States Allies are becoming passive to a very real threat.

forwaken · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 635 City: Turlock, CA

Nor Cal- I believe that standing army consists of civilians "ready for war." I have a Korean Professor who is very in touch with his homeland. He was telling us that when a citizen of his country, all men are trained to, out the sound of alarms similar to bomb raid alarms, to be ready for war in full military uniform and arms. I am not sure these people are counted in their numbers, but just a thought.

criminally_minded · Posted: Mar 05, 2003 12:16 pm Post subject:

John Howard is a complete muppet, a spineless little twerp who choses to ignore 70+% of voting Australians.

I guess I'll just sit here in my little corner of the world, fooling myself that Tasmania will never be a target, and watch while the world blows itself to hell so that George can say "My daddy can beat up your daddy...."

kstateskier · Criminal Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 53 City: Manhattan, KS

Wes,

Saddam Hussein is not muslim. Also, there is no proof that Saddam Hussein has anything to do with Al-Qaeda. Exactly the opposite, as Bin Laden calls Hussein "an infidel" for the basic reason that Hussein is not Muslim. I think many Americans are getting swayed by the Iraq=Al Qaeda swing the Bush administration is putting on everything.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Al Queda doesn't even represent the views of mainstream muslims but you must villianize your enemy.

Krashr31 · Outlaw Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 238 City: Florida

I'm a firm believer that America should have a "ready" civilian Army too. Alot of our alliences are weak ones and stand by us because it's convienent to do so at this time. It may not always be thaway, I see alot of complacency in our society, people take our sheltered lives for granted and forget how valuable our freedom is and more importantly what the price tag is and if we've finished paying for it.
ARM AMERICA!

Jazz · Posted: Mar 05, 2003 5:12 pm Post subject:

Nor*Cal, u nailed it. (sort of)

People always see the Muslim religion as a violent, murderous, religion, but the mainstream of it is very peaceful and does not condone the sort of terrorism seen in our world today.

C-Minded, you arent fooling yourself, if we have a nuclear war the first place im going to is tassie, go to your joint an pull fashion air's all day an night, because no-one even knows tassie exists anymore!

ohsix · Posted: Mar 05, 2003 5:25 pm Post subject:

criminally_minded · Posted: Mar 05, 2003 5:51 pm Post subject:

Jazz.... you and I will fashion it up all day and night!

And you're welcome to crash at my place anytime, especially in the event of a nuclear strike Very Happy