Binding companies:Start development on release bindings pls!

[Erik]

Inspired by the recent injuries of a few friends - I would like to ask why binding companies have not continued the development of pressure release bindings.

I assume that as our sport progresses, certian obvious advancements have been made in boats, board design and so forth - but bindings seem to have been forgotten and the majority of binding progression/development is somewhat useless in my opinion. I'm a Hyperlite/Liquid Force fanboy but why are they working on things like the tightening knob or overlay strap systems and other useless advances, when they SHOULD apply the R&D dollars that now go toward holding the foot in tighter, toward creating a skunk works project for release binding systems. Hire a mechanical engineer who works on snow ski release bindings - and get going on it finally.

Requirements/Assumptions:

1. The binding system would need to be connected, so that if one foot releases, both release automatically.
2. The release system would release just the binding assembly, not the plate to which it is connected.
3. The system would react not only to lateral pressures, but also to some kinds of angular downward force (the kind that broke my leg, Zane's leg, and possibly Lcap's ankle)

I can envision a few ways this could be done, but someone in the industry has got be reading this message board - and if they are - please start considering this. I'm hearing more and more about these types of injuries and its about time someone designed a product that alleviates it. It could be the next MAJOR advancement in wakeboarding.

Erik

[Dees]

so landing hard off a double up or a tripple up you bindings would pop off. What about some of those skechy landing were you land hard and alomst wreck but you ride it out. Or spinning on a 7 or 9 and the twisting action make you bindings pop off.


I'm not saying your wrung (i think it;s a great idea) just playing the devils advocate.

[Wakebrad]

It seems you might sacrifice a little control of the board if you implemented this. There would have to be a part of the binding which was not tight all the way.

How did you injure your leg?

[Erik]

No, they'd have to be designed so that they would only give way with a certian amount of angular downward pressure. Straight (or within reason - like 15-30 degrees off) downward pressure would not let the bindings release. This way even a sketchy landing would be tolerated. You've kind of got me on the spinning issue. I do think that would be one of the engineering challenges, won't lie. But even a 7 or 9 that is stuck cleanly would likely not create the kind of pressure I am taking about. I do see your points though and they are good ones.

I injured my leg on a roll to revert that went bad. I blame it partially on the fact that I was on a smaller wake that I was not used to, and that I kind of hucked the roll - those factors combined with the fact that I cut in very hard, combined to snap my tibia and fibula cleanly.

[Adam Greer]

maybe once i get my degree.... I can see it a doable thing, but R&D could only determine if it would be practicle or not.

As of know i see the pros are:
you save people alot of injuries
could have some affect on the progression of the sport

cons
I know i would be pissed if i was gona stomp something and they released.
You have a lose board flying all over the place
a malfunctioning release would jack you up possibly worse than being held in


but i think with some thought and some inovation something could done..

[Bowen]

[salmon_tacos]

I've thought of this and it is a great idea but it will never happen because:

1. These bindings would cost too much. Think of how much they already charge for some rubber and laces. All of the stuff required to make a reliable and tunable release mechanism would more than double the cost.

2. They would require some kind of adjustment of the simultaneous release mechanism since bindings have variable width. Proper adjustment would be a critical safety issue and could, therefore, not be trusted to the user.

Like I said though, it's a great idea so if it ever happens, I'll gladly eat my words.

[vette74]

If I were to do this I would design this with the base plate and the boot part of the binding separate. With the base plate have an adjustable cable connecting the two base plates (for different stance widths) and have release like snow skis but if one binding comes out the cable is moved and releases the other binding. You would just have to figure out what angle and pressure you need to release the binding.

The problems I see are cost and how much of a pain it would be to put the bindings back on the board after you wrecked especially since you would have to put both bindings on the board at the same time because it would be designed to not hold only 1 binding.

Any thoughts?

[Wakebrad]

I think we should all just drink more milk.

There are potentially too many factors to create a system. For a lot of applications having the board stay on your feet is better than not. Can snowboard strap on bindings release?

It seems wakeboarding would be much harder to break a bone than skateboarding or snowboarding.

[justin h.]

I did a little testing with wakeboards and pressure release bindings (ski-tech) and it was an interesting experience. They control the board very well, but the release is very inconsistant. I tried several set-ups and to make a long story short I ride standard wakeboard bindings today.

http://www.skibennetts.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=45

[salmon_tacos]

Do any snowboard bindings have a safety release? I've never seen that.

vette74,

I don't think a cable would be the best idea because, what would happen if you didn't adjust it properly and one binding released? Answer: big trouble. I think, if anything, the bindings would need to be connected together in some rigid fashion so that if the simultaneous release failed, the connected binding wouldn't be at the total mercy of the board. It would still be like you were attached to the board until the second binding either released or broke.

So...OK. That concept kind of eliminates the adjustment safety aspect so I'm now left with cost. We can add weight to that too since a strong rigid connection between the bindings would have to be pretty substantial. It would also add to the cost and complexity of the system. Alright, so now I think it is possible but I still don't think it will happen.

[Wakebrad]

If you didn't have a cable you'd have to implement something mechanical inside the board... which would probably decrease the strength of the board. This would also have to be an industry standard.

What's the solution?

WAKESKATE!!

Everyone go out and buy an integrity. It'll save your bones.

[Erik]

Thanks for the link to the Bennets devices. I think they're onto something but certianly those are not quite applicalble to a wakeboarding use. The binding system would need to be quite complicated and I believe a part of the board itself, more than we think of them today.

I not only think it can happen, but will within 10 years.

I did not picture a cable, but rather a slotted channel between the bindings perhaps even inside the board, that connected them. The channel could be light weight, about as light as a strong aluminum yarstick and about the same width. Actually comparing the device's connection to each other to a yardstick is a decent description of what I picture this in my head. I do believe someone will figure this engineering problem out sooner rather than later. Yes they could be expensive at first, but due to early adopters I think it could work as a business for someone. I know I would try something like this out...

[MinnDizzyG]

salmon_tacos -
I agree the cost would go up, but you could reason it against the cost of the type of injuries lcap sustained in the other thread about this subject. Would you set down $500 or $600 for a pair of bindings if you had a significantly lower probability of a serious injury?

On the engineering aspects of it - specifically the twisting motion: don't snow skis release in a twisting motion? What happens when a slalom skier goes down doing 40, 50, 60 mph then rolls 150 yards down the hill? Don't the skis usually release? (Serious question - I know precisely squat about snow skiing.)

[vette74]

salmon_tacos,
I was thinking about rigid also but if you look at everyones set up some people have their stance wider some are more ducked out ect. Getting the cable adjusted properly would be a big issue.
You would have to make it so you could not lock one binding down by itself you have to have both bindings on the board to lock and if you could not ge the cable adjust properly neither would lock in.
After reading that it would be way easier to make a rigid system and the rider would just have to live with the stance.

[Erik]

[chavez]

[salmon_tacos]

I'm picturing a strong connection on top of the board; maybe a telescoping aluminum beam that is adjustable with set screws or something. I think the strong connection is absolutely necessary because no release system will be infallible.

You know, the more I think about this, the simpler it becomes...I love brainstorming:

If the bindings release because of pressure, a strong connection between the bindings means that if one comes off, the resulting leverage on the other binding will pretty much guarantee that it will also release. If it doesn't, that's still not a big deal because both feet are still controlling the board, just through a single point instead of two points.

Alright...so maybe this system could be sold in the $500-700 range. I'm getting more optimistic. Of course, a USCGA vest would be necessary now since it would be hard to swim with your feet locked into the binding assembly.

[salmon_tacos]

vette74,

A rigid connection wouldn't have to preclude stance adjustment. Width could be adjusted in the middle of the "beam" and angle could be adjusted in the connection between the bindings and the beam. Perhaps the pressure release mechanism could be a function of the beam.

Ooh...how about this: The release "beam" could be attached between the bindings and the board, allowing any bindings to be attached to the beam.

[Erik]

Salmon Tacos I love brainstorming too. I get it, I think the rod idea is solid too and allows for something in there to actually be threaded into each other - and makes manufacturing all of the inner, strong part a bit easier. But next is the stance angle issue. Certianly it is important but if the device was fastened and reacted to forces on the binding only, the plate itself start to matter a bit less. As if the actual "hooks" to the whole system were on the toes and heels of the binding assembly rather than the plate.

[Wakebrad]

[chavez]

[Tyler~Moore]

nice tweaked grabs and POP, there goes your board...

[chavez]

Wakebrad, he blew it out big time on a skate - fell one foot on one foot off IIRC. He did it at Irvine the day before the PWT.

[Wakebrad]

What's IIRC?

I could see how it would happen on a slider but on the wake.. I would think you would injure your groin or something if 1 foot stayed on

[salmon_tacos]

Something like this. The release mechanisms would require some engineering but I think this sort of design would be pretty safe.

[Tyler~Moore]

Erik Jernberg, Im def allowed to post anything i want, didnt break any rules by doing so, thank you, for your stupid post-count augumenting call out!

[ehwake]

hey all, this is my first post...hi to all.
how about a simple electrical system. microswitches in series. if the circuit opens the binding has come away from it's mount. We use similar devices to let us know a robot wrist has collided. There are numerous miniature switches in series and if any one is broken (open) it stops the robot from causing too much damage. Say 4 switches, 2 on each binding or 4 on each...you'd then need a electical/mechanical release device if any switch opened...all waterproof...could be done in my opinion.

[chavez]

Wakebrad, If I Recall Correctly. IIRC he was trying something W2W...

[Wakebrad]

[Wakebrad]

Erik Jernberg, I know what you mean. I've typed hundreds of replies and then think... whats the point in my saying this so I just go back.

I almost did it to this one... but I figured I have to say it or no one will know.

Still thinking about going back... ahh screw it.

[Erik]

Salmon Tacos - looks awesome. What did you mock that up in? Pro/E? Autocad? it looks excellent and addresses the communication between the two bindings.

[joedirt00]

what happened to the step-in plate bindings for snowboards that used ski type boots. Couldn't there be a boot that you wear instead of sticking your foot in the bindings and pop into plates mounted on the board?

Is there any snowboarders here that know what I am talking about???

[salmon_tacos]

Erik Jernberg,

Haha, just photoshop. I used the lasso and paint bucket to draw it.

joedirt00,

They don't release.

[chavez]

salmon_tacos, he may be referring to the slalom snowboard boots or even monoboard boots.

Either way, it's still only one foot releasing at a time.