Fat Sack project

[Mr. Mutt]

I want to put some ballast in my 1999 X-star. I don't think I'll get around to doing an auto-system during the summer (rather be out riding) so I want to do it in two stages. First is to get the sacks and manually fill them for the summer, then do all the auto setup in the winter. Was thinking about 2 500# in each back bin, and a 300# in the ski locker. Any suggestions on good types of soft sacks for this? Anything I should be aware of when buying them so they will also work for an auto system (the ultimate end goal)? Thanks!

[jryoung]

Mr. Mutt, I'm not positive of this but and auto system with soft sacks can be tempermental. I know that often the pumps may not prime since it is a soft sack. I my friends VLX we placed two 35 gallon plastic drums on each side of the motor. we had one pump going in for both, and each had its own drain pump out the bottom. It works great, but someone who has built and auto soft sack system may be able to tell you haw to set it up right no you have no priming problems.

[Jaggers]

Sacs are not a problem as long as you use self priming pumps like simer or jabsco. Do not use aerator style pumps like the one used in your bilge. You will need the front sac to be around 750, not 300. With the weight set up you discribed the boat will porpous.

[jklein]

I agree with Jaggers. Sacs are not a problem. I use the Ballast Puppy and it can self prime up to 4 feet of dry tube. Your system won't be dry when you go to drain it anyway. I also agree with the 750 in the locker if it will fit.

One suggestion. Use the largest diameter tubing you can when plumbing your automatic system at least until you T it off to maximize volume. I fill a 600, 550 and 350 in about 15 minutes with one Ballast Puppy.

[CHiLi DaWg]

definitly balance the load with a larger sac up front. Will you be able to completly fill the 500's in the compartment? I've heard that Fly High will make custom sacs. Might be something to look into.
www.barefootinternational.com

[Mr. Mutt]

So, would something like this for the center:

http://www.boardstop.com/product_info.php?cPath=59_61&products_id=418

And these for the rear:

http://www.boardstop.com/product_info.php?cPath=59_61&products_id=414

be more appropriate? With 600 in the middle, 1160 in the back, that's 65-35 split, that would work yes?

[Jaggers]

Try and get it to 60/40 back/front. The faster a person rides at the more the front needs to be weighted to avoid porpousing. I ride 24.5 at 80 feet and I weigh my boat 1000 in the front 1500 in the back. Fully automatic and hidden in my Mastercraft 210V. Three simer pumps, one for each sack and three 6 pin on/off/on toggle switchs for which allows me to reverse the polarity for fill/empty.

[Mr. Mutt]

Ok, so a couple of questions:

- When you say "front" are you meaning all the way in the bow, in the center locker, what? The 205V/X-star doesn't have a lot of storage, so to cram sacks in the front area would not be feasable to have other stuff in the boat (like bumpers, anchor, etc.)

- Do they make such thing as a flow meter so if you don't want to fill the sacks all the way you can do it partially in a measured fashion? I guess just timing the fill on each would probably work. Fill the center as much as you want, then multiply that by 3/4 and put that much in each rear sack.

[CHiLi DaWg]

Center locker.

I think that boats with hard tanks have a fill level meter. Not sure though. I would time it.

[AndyDeeJay]

I have just completed installing a fat sac ballast system in my 1999 XStar - This is essentially how Mastercraft now install their stock ballast systems in new boats.

Here's some tips

I was fed up having to throw a pair of submersible pumps over the side to fill the 2 sacs either side of the Vdrive. Then fill the front sac in the ski locker. Emptying was a complete pain as the pumps air locked and never really completely removed the water.

I had some credit left over from a local chandlery (sp?) and ordered 3 Jabsco wakeboard pumps which are rated at about 8 gallons/minute. They are also reversible and come with dashboard switches.

Parts list
(40) feet of 1" hose
(2) feet 1.5" hose
(1) 1.5" brass through hull fitting
(1) brass leaf grill
(1) 1.5" 90deg bend
(1) 1.5" shut off valve (90 deg lever type)
(1) 1.5" brass 1 way valve
(2) 1" plastic 1 way valve
(5) 1" white plastic bilge outlets
(1) 1.5” to 5x1”
(3) Jabsco wakeboard pump
(2) 1.5” stainless hose clamps
(20) 1” stainless hose clamps
(12) 1/2” stainless screws
(4) Brass screws
(10) feet red/black 8 gauge cable
(45) feet red/black 16 gauge cable

First you have to prep the boat for this work. I opened the engine cover and disconnected the gas filled struts which allowed the cover to open by 90 degrees. I removed 2 plastic compartment divides and the rear bulkheads and cross brace. Next I removed the silent master muffler. This is the large fibreglass barrel that the 2 exhausts connect into. (The engine sounds amazing without the silencer - but that’s another topic). This is fairly difficult as your boat is 5 years old and even with the hose clamps totally loosened, the rubber will be stuck to the muffler. You need to prise it off all round with a large screwdriver. I found it easier to loosen all of the underside hose clamps as each rubber hose can then move slightly.

You are now ready to install the pumps. I spent nearly an evening just holding the pumps against the transom (rear of the boat) trying to find a suitable position and orientation. Finally I mounted the pumps about an inch above the shelf with the impeller at the bottom rather than to one side. I spaced them evenly, one in the centre and the other two about 8 -10" to either side. The transom is less than 1/2" thick so only use short stainless screws and predrill the fibreglass with a short drill only sticking out of the chuck about ¼”. The pumps have four rubber mounting grommet which are about ¼” thick.

Next you need to drill a 2" hole in the hull. This is where your ballast system draws its water. Some people tee into the engine cooling water hose for this but there are several problems - If you try and fill while running the engine you could overheat it, you will not get very much water as the raw water pump is pretty thirsty and this is not how Mastercraft do it! Placement of the dedicated ballast inlet is fairly critical and there are a few things to look out for. I fitted mine just behind the front engine mount on the passenger side. You have to make sure you position the inlet so that there is room to screw on the 90 degree bend – not to far forward or it fouls on the engine mount, not to far left or it goes through a spray rail on the under side and not to far right or it hits the sump. Make sure to use marine sealant on the underside and around the threads of the nut. Fit the leaf grill on the underside of the hull using brass screws and predrill the holes. Next screw on the 90 degree bend, then the ball valve and one way valve using PTFE tape. I used a 1.5” hose adaptor after the one way valve and secured the 1.5” hose with a hose clip.

Next connect the other end of the 1.5” hose to a 5 port manifold. Mastercraft have used a manifold made from a nylon block drilled and threaded for hose adaptors. The block is about 10x2x2” and is mounted under the centre pump. I made a manifold from ordinary plumbing tee fittings and simply hose clipped the 1.5 and 1” hoses to it. So now you have a water inlet through the hull which comes in turns through 90degrees towards the back of the boat. It can be shut off for safety and water can only come in. This feeds your manifold with a plentiful supply of water. Three of the ports on the manifold feed the 3 pumps using 1” hose and hose clips. The 3 pumps are connected to the bottom gland on each sac. I cut a 2” hole in each rear bulkhead to let the hose out to each rear sac and ran a hose along with the battery cable to the ski locker for the front sac.

Next I drilled the upper hull just below the rubber bump strip for 5 bilge outlets. 2 per side at the back and 1 at the front passengers side. I drilled a 2” hole from the ski locker over and up into the locker under the passengers seat. Each of the sacs was fitted with a 1” vent hose out one of the top glands. This allows me to fill and not have to worry about bursting the sacs. When the sacs are full the extra water just pours out the respective outlet.

Next I connected the 2 remaining manifold ports to the 2 second bilge outlets on each side at the back with an inline one way valve. When the pumps are reversed the water comes out of the bottom of the sac, back down the hose to the pump. The pump pushes the water back to the manifold. The water has no choice but to go through the 2 one way valves and out the bilge outlets at the back on each side.

The electrical connection was relatively straight forward. I used 30amp red and black wire to each pump. This was routed round the drivers side in below the lip on the deck along with the speedo tubes. I removed the drivers side vinyl covered cup holder/12 volt outlet panel below the Morse control. Just behind the front curved section, I carefully cut the vinyl and chiselled out a rectangular hole for each switch. I connected the 3 switch commons and lives using 8AWG wire which ran along the morse control cables to in front of the drivers foot board. The cable was then run round under the front seating to the battery. A 40A inline fuse holder and fuse was fitted.


Snags
My fat sacs were old and only had the upper water glands. They filled no problem but wouldn’t empty as air would get drawn in from the vent hoses.

At first I didn’t use a 1 way valve on the water inlet. When the pumps were reversed it was hard to tell if the sacs were empty as the water simply went back out through the hull. Any air drawn from the sac bubbled all the way under the hull and sounded terrible. This may have caused problems with steering and propulsion – I don’t know.

The flow rate was reduced considerably as more pumps were turned on at once. Each of the pumps has an internal diameter of ¾” and are being fed off 1.5” which is 3 times the area. I discovered the main 1 way valve had too strong a spring. I cut its closing spring and discarded half of it. The sacs now fill at the same rate regardless of the number of pumps running.

I got the idea from this forum to use bilge outlets fitted at the bottom of the sacs. It is possible to cut a 1” hole on the bottom of one end of the sac and slip the bilge outlet in from the outside. When the nut is tightened a seal is made and the sac doesn’t leak – incredible answer to my first problem.

My main ballast inlet was too close to the spray rail on the underside of the hull. The leaf grill doesn’t sit against the hull neatly – but it will never be seen.

I learned how thick the transom was the hard way. A little car body filler and a blob of red paint worked well though.

There is too much weight at the back of the boat if the rear sacs are full. The ski locker sac is smaller than a standard sac and to get the best wake the load should be roughly even between front and back. If the rear sacs are about half full this works fine. I think stock ballast on a Mastercraft is 2 small plastic water (fuel) tanks at the back and a tube sac in the locker.

My next action is to put a couple of tube sacs under the front seats or make a fat jump seat above the ski locker and either feed them off the vent of the locker sac or add another pump.



Hope this is of some use.

[DiyGuy]

WOW, sound well thought out!

Got any pics?

[Fishmaster]

I just added this link to www.diyTower.com, this is the first info on a ballast project I've found. Please keep posting and add pic's and more details or links to other project info online.

[AndyAndy]

id still say the best idea for homemade ballast that ive seen is using 2 liter bottles and filling them with sand, then water, its the most weight u can get without spending a dime and with about 15 of em uve got well over 200 lbs and wen u want em off ur boat u can just chuck em on the dock

[joedirt00]

whe you guys use soft sacs for auto fill systems, do you have any problems wioth too much air in the sac. Normally you would "burp" the sacs to maximize the amount of water, how is this handled automaticly?

[wakeboarder89]

check out fluid concepts sacks they have a hose that lets the air out as you fill them www.fluidconcpets.net

[patrickengler]

joedirt00, The boat I ride on uses an auto system with soft sacs. I has been used almost daily the entire summer and hasn't had a problem yet. Air does get in the bags but it takes a while before you need to do anything about it. You can pretty much just detach the empty hose and push out the air. all in all it takes about 5 minutes.

The hoses and entire system for that matter seem to be relatively easy to access and work with. If issues do arise its not that big of a deal to just get your hands dirty. Plus then you're not wasting buttloads of gas carring around 1300 pounds when you don't need to. Oh yeah, this system is for just what you're talking about...2 500's in the back and a 300 in the middle.

[CP3]

AndyDeeJay, Hey I know its been a while since you posted your DIY ballast system but could you send me some pics of how you did it. Do you know where to get a good price on jabsco pumps?

[dizzyj]

I have a 2000 xstar with
750's in the back
600 kbg locker
200 lbs of lead in the nose,
and a 400 in the walkway.

its not enough weight.

im looking to all 1000lbs of lead

just an fyi