Custom Automatic DIY Ballast System

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

This past weekend my Brother-In-Law and I installed a custom ballast system into his '01 Gekko GTR-22 direct drive boat. Below are the specs of what we used and how we did it.

First of all the shopping list:

6 Atwood Aerator Pumps - (4 -750 GPH pumps, and 2- 1200 GPH pumps)
- Walmart Special of $20 a piece =$120
2 250# side sacs + 1 750# side sac (1250# total) = $200
2 3/4" bilge drain plugs ($15)
1 1" bilge drain plug ($10)
1 1 1/2" water scoop ($45)
1 1 1/2" Ball Valve ($10)
Electrical Wire - Insulated and water proof (250 ft for $27 at home depot)
30' of 3/4" PVC vinyl tubing ($30)
50' of 1" PVC vinyl tubing ($75)
various quick connects ($50)
Dual position switches and other components ($100)
Grand total = ~$600

When we first started out with the project we were intending on using the Jabsco Ballast Puppy, but after careful investigation we found that that pump only was going to pump at about 300 GPH where as the pumps we used were rated for at least 750 GPH. As a result we used 3 pumps for filling (1 750 GPH pump for each of the 250# sacs, and 1 1200GPH pump for the large sac in the back). For the 2 smaller sacs (250# side sacs), we ran 3/4" tubing to the fill and drain ports on those. We put one of the 250# sacs in the bow, one under the passenger seat for equalling the weight of the driver out, and then put the large sac in the back of the boat. We ran 1" tubing to the large sac in the back to help equal out the filling time. To do all of the filling in a nice neat package, we put in the following pump assembly. Here is a picture of it when it was assembled:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4425&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

and here it is installed in the boat:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4426&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

Once we had that installed we ran all of the tubing under the floor to the desired areas. The 3/4" tubing ran to the front bag and the one under the passenger seat, and the 1" tubing was routed under the engine and up behind the gas tank before being routed into the gunnel. At the end of the hoses were quick connects (we bought some really heavy duty quick connects for the 1" hoses at Northern Hydraulics, and some other quick connects for the 3/4" tubing at the local boat dealer). These lines were run to the bags for the fill position. We also used quick connects to attach the pumps directly to the bags for the draining part. From the pumps we attached the hose lines to the drain holes that we put into the boat. Half way between the drain lines we put some more quick connects so that the pumps would stay with the bags at all times, so if we wanted to take them out, we could. For the electrical part of the drain pumps, we bought some electrical connectors from West Marine that we mounted into the boat on a wall close to the where the pump would be, and one on the pump itself, so the pump could be quickly connected and disconnected: Here is a picture of the plug before being installed:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4424&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

And here is a picture of one of the plugs installed in it's final location (this is the rear sac's plug:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4423&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

From those plugs and from the pumps we ran insulated waterproof electrical wire to the dash where we installed 3 dual position switches.
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4428&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

Before the install was completed we had to do the scariest part of all, cut a 1 7/8" hole in the bottom of the boat for the water scoop. Many people in the past have just been teeing off of the engine water intake, but we did not want to starve the engine, and thought that it would be nice to be able to fill at the same time as driving, which you should not do if you are teeing off of the engine intake. Here is a picture of the water scoop after it was installed and attached to the ball valve that we use to turn the water flow to the pumps on and off:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4427&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

Here is another picture of the ball valve and the 1 1/2" tube that is running to the pump assembly:
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showphoto.php?photo=4422&password=&sort=7&thecat=500

After 14 hours of work on this to make it a nice install we were finally ready to test out the system. We took the boat out on Sunday morning with tools in hand to handle problems with loose connections, etc. We dropped the boat in the water and opened the ball valve, so far so good. We put the boat in gear to prime the pumps and turned on the switches to the bags, and the bags began to fill. 6 minutes later we had 1250#'s of water installed in the boat and were ready to run. Same thing with the draining. We ran into a few light leaks, but tightening the hose clamps that we put on all hoses fixed that problem.

Hope this is some good information for people who would like to try this themselves, let me know if you have any questions.

wakerwes · Outlaw Joined: 31 Aug 2003 Posts: 135 City: belgium

nice project Smile

Where did you bought the water scoop for the intake?
do you have also a pic of the drain holes in your boat?

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

We bought the scoop at West Marine too. Here is a link to it
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=31613

I do not have a picture of the drain holes, but will get one tonight for you:

Partyb · Posted: Jun 28, 2004 9:30 am Post subject:

You used totally different pumps for draining?

Where is the intake scoop in relation to your PP wheel?

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

Yes - We have the pumps connected directly to the bags using quick connects to screw them onto the bag attachements.

The scoop is almost right across from the PP wheel, but it is a little more toward the back than the PP wheel is.

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

I have some more pictures of the project as some people have requested. the first one is of the side of the boat showing the drain holes. the plugs we put in are the white ones, there are two of them in this picture, and we have another one on the other side.

The next picture is of the bag/pump assembly. As you can see from the picture the pump is attached to the bag using a quick connect, I also showed the other half of the plug from the pump, which plugs into the ports that we installed inside the boat.

The last picture is of the bottom of the boat showing the placement of the water scoop for the ballast system as opposed to the PP wheel, and the engine scoop.

wakerwes · Outlaw Joined: 31 Aug 2003 Posts: 135 City: belgium

looks very good, Cool

where did you bought the quick connect fittings that are screwed on the fat sac?

Alan C · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Jan 2004 Posts: 329 City: Calgary

man that is so aweosme... good job!!!

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

wakerwes, We bought all of the quick connect fittings at the local boat dealer...they were $2 a piece.

Thanks for the comments guys - Hopefully others will find this information useful when they do their own project.

T&T · Outlaw Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 192 City: Denver

garveyj,
I thought the pump threads on the suction end of the pump were different than the hose threads on the blue (fill/drain) attachment???
How did you attach?

T&T · Outlaw Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 192 City: Denver

Oh, and where did you get the extra blue attachments? I've seen the kit at wal-mart, but don't want all the extra crap. Any suggestions?

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

T&T,
surprisingly the attachments have the same threads on it, so the blue adapter fit perfectly on the pump. We got those blue adapters at the local boat store - they were $2 a piece.

T&T · Outlaw Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 192 City: Denver

Cool.
Thanks man!

I am going to attempt your plan, except all 6 pumps will be the same size because the sacks are close to the same size.. (1)375#, (2)275#'s. I will also use the $20 wal-mart specials (already have one to fill my sacks). Also, no water scoop. I have to figure something else out. Was thinking about a 1" or 1-1/2" inlet at the bottom of the boat. My boat is too deep for a scoop.
What do you do about overfill? Is it possible to overfill and rupture the sack with this type of pump?

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

because we have the pumps installed on the bags, we hook up the drain hoses when we are filling the bags, and thus the bag will just overflow out the side of the boat. Then the pump is primed for emptying the bags when we are ready.

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

T&T, After talking with my Brother in law, an inlet will not work...you need to do something to get the water up to the pumps to prime it. Having the water scoop down there and just idling at about 5 MPH was enough to get it going. I don't think any boat is too deep for a scoop, it is just finding the right placement for it.

T&T · Outlaw Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 192 City: Denver

I just got most of the parts. Ended up with the scoop because the inlet was the same size. The pumps will actually sit lower than the water level so I don't think priming them will be a problem. Got the perfect place for the scoop under the boat, and you were right. Will running the boat at 5+mph help push the water faster throught the pumps, thus fill faster?
Also, where did you get the 3 way switches? Can't find the nice looking ones at the boat shop.
Going to start next week on the assembly. Thanks a bunch for your help.

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

T&T, going faster will not really pump water faster, it will cause the pumps to be primed - and it will push water past the impeller, but I am not sure that you will be pumping any faster because the hose size will be the same.

Good job on getting the scoop - you will be happier with it anyway, and you will need to at least idle to get the pumps to prime with the pump assembly dry, we jumped up to 20 MPH going to our riding spot, which primed the pumps really well, and we continued to pump while we were driving.

We bought the switches at West Marine: could not find the exacte ones that we bought - they were made by Cole Hersee, but here is a link to a search for switches on West Marine:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=294&keyword=switch&storeId=10001&storeNum=9&subdeptNum=124&catalogId=10001&langId=-1

and here is a link to the bracket that we bought to put it all in a nice package:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=59636&catalogId=10001&classNum=294&subdeptNum=124&storeNum=9

AirDad · Outlaw Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 126

garveyi - I used the same pumps and set up with a scoop. Found out I had to install shut off valves in each fill line, or the scoop would "pump" water into the sacs while we were at speed (when the pumps were off.) Did you have the same problem?

Mike D · Criminal Joined: 21 Apr 2003 Posts: 74 City: Orlando

Airdad,
shut off the valve to the intake scoop when all is full. balance out the bags via the empty switches.
T&T
I can sell you a ballast panel with four lighted 20 amp carling marine on/off/on switchs, looks great , works great. $75.00 shipped, the panel is carbon fibre 4/6inches.

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

AirDad, We put a ball valve right after the water scoop, so we open the valve when we are ready to fill, and close it when we are done.

srh00z · Outlaw Joined: 09 Nov 2003 Posts: 128 City: Birmingham

Cool project, I am going to have to replace the floor in my boat this off season, and I will be looking into doing some sort of ballast system while I am at it, this will be a good reference. Are all the ballast bags on the deck of the boat, I am wondering how to determine how full they are if I put them under the deck.

DiyGuy · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Dec 2003 Posts: 460

I wonder what the folks at Wally World all across America think when they keep having to stock up on the 750 GPH pumps but none of the other crap sells???

I can just see some pimple face geek stacking these pumps on the shelf every week, wondering WTF is with these pumps?

My local nearby Wal Mart can't keep them in stock!

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

srh00z, Yes the bags just sit on the floor - there was not a place for it under the floor.

gundogg · Newbie Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 13

I was planning on putting in a semi-auto ballast system this week, I got almost all the parts now, but I am having a hard time talking myself into drilling that one inch hole in the bottom of the boat.

I got the one inch scoop w/ strainer from West Marine and I have a ballast puppy pump, and just about all the connectors and hoses, but I am dreading the hole drilling. It just seems like a really big hole to add in the bottom of the boat.

I already have one scoop installed for the ballast system that is already installed on my Air Nautique, but I don't think the hole is big enough to support the stock system and my additional system...am I wrong in this assumption?

I am having a problem in figuring out where to locate the scoop at this time as well. The engine one is on the drivers side and the stock ballast scoop is on the other side and anywhere I think I might put it seems to interfere with something else in the engine compartment.

Are there any thoughts on using the existing scoop or another location to mount the new scoop, or just some general encouragement Wink

thanks and I hope I can get this thing in Confused

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

I don't see why you cannot just use the current scoop that is in there - my suggestion would be to tee off of that line coming in for your normal ballast system and then you can customize it from there. There is no need to drill a hole into the bottom of the boat that you do not need.

gundogg · Newbie Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 13

I am just a little worried that the 1/2" (I believe) piping is too small to supply the stock tanks and my additional sacks. If I removed my old pumps and just used the ballast puppy to fill everything then the 1/2" would be OK, but I would wait forever for my two 500 LB sacks and the one 300 LB sack and the stock ballast tanks to fill up. But I am open to suggestions Confused

T&T · Outlaw Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 192 City: Denver

Just completed my project on Thursday and drove to the Ozarks. (just got back in town last night). I will photo tonight when I get home.
I have the manifold low enough that I don't need to prime it, it will pump to the three sacks just sitting in the water. The install is a little rough at the sacks because I didin't have all the parts I needed, but I will fix it this week in prep for this weekend. It fills and drains each in about 5 minutes. Put about 20 hours on my boat in the last 5 days, and everything held up perfectly.
Thanks for the help.

gundogg · Newbie Joined: 01 Mar 2004 Posts: 13

I don't know where to put another pickup for the second ballast system if I install a Perfect pass paddle wheel...I can't have anything within 6 feet of the perfect pass paddle, right? how close can I put the two pickups for the ballast systems to each other without having problems??? any ideas?

T&T · Outlaw Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 192 City: Denver

I thought you couldn't have anything within 6' of the front of the PP wheel because of the turbulence it would cause???
Not sure why it would react to having a pickup behind the paddle wheel???

garveyj · Addict Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 877 City: Savage, MN

T&T, congrats on getting the install done - sounds like everything works out great - time for some pictures of the project (which it sounds like you are already doing).

gundogg, like T&T said I think it is in front of the paddle wheel that you do not want, but behind it should be fine. I think that 1/2" is too small to fill that many sacs - I think at best you will want to put in another scoop, since I would not try to increase the size of the hole that is already in there.

astro209 · Soul Rider Joined: 09 Oct 2003 Posts: 279 City: Nor*Cal

Question below....

Ok, I have installed my DIY automatic system and taking some info from this thread, I combined some ideas that I had and now have a fully automatic system. I used two 1-1/4 " through hull fittings. One is for filling, and the other is for emptying (one scoop is facing the front of the boat, the other is facing the back). I used a manifold which all three of my bags are attached too (two 525# bags on either side of the engine, and the 1400# fat seat in the back). I also used the $10 electronic sprinkler valves that you get at Home depot to control the flow of the water and to keep the bags from filling or emptying when they are not supposed to. I currently have two of these valves, one on the empty side, and one on the fill side, but in the near future, I will be putting three more in the system, one for each bag, so that I can control the flow of water to each bag individually.

The 1" hoses for the system run under the flooring of the boat and go directly to each bag which I have turned upside down for better filling and emptying.

I am thinking of adding more pumping power.... Right now, it takes about 20 minutes to completely fill all three sacs (about 2500#), but can take up to 45 minutes to empty. I currently have a 2000GPH pump on the fill side, and a 1000GPH pump on the empty side.

MY QUESTION: If I add more pumps in sequence... i.e. one after the other, will this increase my GPH or does it not work that way???? I was thinking about getting four of those Wal-Mart special pumps that run 1200 GPH and putting two on each side in addition to the one's already there. Will this effectively give me 6400GPH fill and 5400 empty?

89 skier · Addict Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 729 City: Dallas

I wouldn't think that putting two pumps in series with one another would work (at least it wouldn't pump twice as fast). If you used a Y-fitting after the pumps to connect the two hoses from the pumps into one hose that connects to the ballast, you might be able to fill the sacks faster.

My question.....Do you not have to burp the sacs with a system like this? How do you avoid getting air inside the sacs?

astro209 · Soul Rider Joined: 09 Oct 2003 Posts: 279 City: Nor*Cal

89 skier, that was my thought too. I think the pumps would need to be in parallel, like you described, in order to add to each others GPH rating.

I have not seen the air problem as of yet. I think because when the sacs emptied, all the water and the air is pulled out due to the pump, and the suction effect of the thru hull fitting facing the back of the boat (when the boat is moving). Any air that gets in during filling, which would be very minimal, is expelled during empting.

T&T · Outlaw Joined: 07 May 2003 Posts: 192 City: Denver

need to increase your inlet and outlet pipe size or quantity to run multiple pumps or you will be trying to push too much water through too little of a hole.

astro209 · Soul Rider Joined: 09 Oct 2003 Posts: 279 City: Nor*Cal

T&T, I already have a 1-1/4 inch inlet and I am running 1" all the way to the sacs. I just don't think that I am running at this ID capacity. That is why I want to get more pumps. With that kind of ID, I should be able to fill and empty the sacs in less then 3 minutes. Hell, with just the 2000 GPH pump and the 5/8 inch hose, I could fill all three in about 20 minutes.