Medical Controversy

[Dragonlady8]

I have an issue with this. In this day and age when organ are difficulty to find, especially for infants .



Infant gets 8-organ transplant
Thursday, March 18, 2004 Posted: 7:37 PM EST (0037 GMT)

MIAMI, Florida (Reuters) -- Doctors at a Miami hospital said Thursday they had transplanted a record eight organs into a 6-month-old Italian girl.

The 12-hour transplant operation, performed on January 31, included a liver, stomach, pancreas, small intestine, large intestine, spleen and two kidneys, said surgeons at the University of Miami/Jackson Memorial Medical Center.

Surgeons at the same facility had previously transplanted seven organs successfully.

"To my knowledge this is the first attempt at eight organs," said Dr. Andreas Tzakis, chief of the hospital's transplant program.

"The child is quite well. She is in her mother's arms and she is being fed through the new intestines. All the organs seem to be functioning well."

The baby, Alessia Di Matteo of Genoa, Italy, was born with congenital "smooth muscle" disorder, which prevents normal function of the stomach, intestines and kidneys and is fatal if untreated, the hospital said.

Tzakis said the first year would be critical to Alessia's survival. She was expected to be released from the hospital within a couple of weeks and could return to Italy within two months.

At least one previous multi-organ transplant patient has lived ten years and others are doing well, Tzakis said.

"When these children survive the surgery and do well, they can do perfectly well," he said.

[nmballa]

Thats why im all for stem cell research. It could lead to organ transplants being a thing of the past. Rather than use some one elses and face all the difficulties of rejection and what not. You could grow one that was perfectly suited for you.

[Tbonez]

The whole organ thing gets me...You sign up to be a donor...So the hospital get your organs for free...Then the hospital turns around and SELLS the organ....I think the receiver should have to pay the doctor to take the organ out and put it in...but why pay for the organ? Correct me if im wrong on this process but this is how I have heard it works...

[Dragonlady8]

Tbonez, Sorry that you were misinformed about the Organ procedure.
Hospitals DO NOT SELL ORGANS. It is illegal to sell organs for Human transplant purposes in the USA. It's just a place where organ transplants and procurements occurs.
Insurance companies, state sponsored medical plans and patients (or other people) pay for the cost of Organ Procurement and tranplants.
Sometimes an MD or Hopital will donate their cost for Transplant patient.

Basically my issue it that this infant is from another country. What about other infants in this country that needed an organ tranplant.

[nmballa]

My uncle, who is a doctor, told me to never ever put myself down as an organ donor due to the fact that if i was in an accident they would simply do that much less to save my life. Now im not saying that they are gonna just let me lay and die, but more like that if death looks inevitable then they basically prepare for harvest. I also saw a show where they were arguing the meaning of brain dead and dead. How brain dead is actually not dead but rather the brain is not responding or something. Cant remeber the show or details, long time ago. But it said that they would use this to get organs when the victim might actually have be savable.

Dragonlady8, "Basically my issue it that this infant is from another country. What about other infants in this country that needed an organ tranplant."

Good point, but I have to argue that one life is no more precious than another. But I think your right, the fact that those 8 organs could have saved the lives of 8 babys rather than one.

[chavez]

Dragonlady8, so basically these organs had the potential to save a number of other children - say 6 or so - and instead this one child got all the organs. That sounds fair

I need a new large intestines - anyone got one out there for me?

[Lindsay]

Agreed, Dlady. Not to mention that it was 8 organs and my guess is this child's odds for survival are very low even with the new GI system.

[koltman]

Dragonlady8, OH F*CKING GREAT, NEXT TIME I'M IN THE STATES, AND GET INTO A CAR ACCIDENT, I'LL REMEMBER TO FLY HOME, OR DIE ON THE TABLE BEFORE ACCEPTING ONE OF YOUR USA ONLY ORGANS. I HOPE YOU ARE HAPPY WHEN I'M DEAD.

I DON'T BELIEVE A HUMAN BEING WOULD SAY THAT, A LIFE IS A LIFE DO ALL YOU CAN TO SAVE IT. OR WHAT IS AN AMERICAN WORTH MORE THAN AN ITALIAN? what you just said, puts you up there with Hitler.

YOU KNOW IF YOU WENT TO ITALY, THEY'D DO IT FOR YOU.

[chavez]

koltman, I think her problem in general is why did this one child receive 8 organs when there are others waiting for transplants and can't get 1.

Dr's should do all they can to save a life, but when you potentially sacrifice several others for a single one - well that just doesn't sound right to me.

[koltman]

chavez-y-chavez, I agree with you there, its the "this country" comment that got to me.

I would like to add, I have nothing against USA, I hope to live there someday. I just have a problem with D-lady8's superior race attitude.

[Jester]

[NorCalStud686]

[koltman]

Jester:Well she could of put it that way. We have this problem the world over. Just the way she put it, I can't think of a bigger insult to all the non-americans on this board.

[salmon_tacos]

koltman,

I can't read Dragonlady's mind but I'm thinking that maybe she sees this as a few ego maniac doctors who found a baby in Italy that they could use for their record-breaking organ transplant, and they flew her all the way to the U.S. and used up 8 donated organs on her.

People always like to take care of the people closest to them first...family, then friends, then community, then city, then state, then country... That's just how it works. I don't think Dragonlady was saying that Italians don't deserve organ transplants. I think she was just questioning the reasoning behind assigning 8 organs, donated by one or more Americans, to a single foreign baby instead of one or more of the many Americans waiting for transplants. The idea that it was an ego thing and not what the donors would have probably wanted or what would save the most lives, is probably the big issue.

Again, I don't know. I'm just playing devil's (Dragonlady's ) advocate here.

[scott a]

[finkle]

[chavez]

Reality check:

These are the organs received: liver, stomach, pancreas, small intestine, large intestine, spleen and two kidneys

You only need 1 kidney. You can live without a large intestine (definitely) and a spleen (I think).

So it's not really 8 other kids, more like 5.

[koltman]

scott a, Last year my farther fell very sick when we were living in San Diego, I glad its your opinion that they left him to get worse, and risk dieing, than use your precious medical care.
So if you got injured outside the USA, would you like some help? Or don't you ever travel.
I'm not debating, that the 8 organs was overboard, and could of been better used, but saying one person is better than another based purely from where they are from, is just humanly wrong. I don't believe your attitude to this, in it only for yourself, selfish and greedy.

[Lynsey]

I don't think she is saying that one race is superior over another but since she's in hospitals a majority of the day/night, I can imagine that she sees this kind of thing happening all over. Maybe it was something that the American docs did here that Italian can't that wasn't reported? Sometimes it's not what you say, just the way you say it.

[koltman]

Oh for sure, that often happens, people go to the other countries to get operations done, that can't be performed in their country. (Eg. Plastic surgury, people allways go to the USA for that) The reason they didn't go to Switzerland or France, is probably because those docs wanted to be the first to the bragging rights.
Look this whole 8 organs thing, is only for show. I agree that the organs should of gone to more people, the people who need them. Distibute them properly, to provide the most help possible, to the people who really need them.
Saying that one country deserves it over the other, is wrong. We are a human race and help each other. To whom who say, "they" should never use our health system, is retarded you will never know where you might end up.
D-lady, the way I read your post is that, only because she's Italian she doesn't deserve it. If you ment it that way or not, I'll leave you to clear that up. A decent human being or a Nazi, its your choice, I'll leave my opinion on you neutral, until your next posy. I appologise for the attack if I'm wrong, which I hope I am. But next time I would choose your words wiser.

[Leggester]

K - what's the policy in Italy? You have to pay for medical? Even if you're a foreigner?

[koltman]

I'm not sure about italy, I think its a national health system. But most people just go over there and get it done privately. They have some very good doctors over there.

[Leggester]

Just curious. The U.S. has traditionally given even free surgerys like this to those from out of country.

Many here are tired of illegal aliens getting better health care than our own people.

That could be one of the contributing factors in this post.

I understand many countries don't even let you in without some proof you can pay.

[koltman]

All countries I've been too, will give you surgery's for free if its really needed. My Dad had to pay to go to the doc, in the USA, I had to aswell a few years back.

[Dutch]

[koltman]

Dutch, If someone came to England and had a case that was more serious than, the blighty. I'd say give it to them. If you read my other posts, I agree it was miss managed.
I lived in the States for 3 years, I know a thing or two. I don't have an uptight veiw of the Americans, now your taking it out of context. I have issues with the people who wrote those threads, American or not, if you take the situation and set it in England, I would still be jumping all over my fellow country men for discrimination.

[jason_ssr]

K, if you are travelling here and get hurt, we will gladly patch you up with whatever resouces are avilable.

What we dont like is having foreigners travel here for the purpose of medical attention and jumping ahead in line of others waiting for an organ. Why not get it done at home? If we can offer a procedure your country doesnt offer, then by all means come over, we are glad to have you, but get in line with everyone else.

It is obviously a doc wanting to set a record, not about sick children.

[koltman]

Jason, I totally agree with that. And am convinced this is only for credit. But if a person is in more need than someone else, surely they get more attention, no matter where they are from.

[Dutch]

[koltman]

I didn't call her a Nazi, I said she can choose to be or not. I'm now waiting her response. I read the thread with the meaning of, she has a issue only because she is Italian. If this is true, she is in my eye's someone who is discriminating to much. If I read it wrong, then yes I appologise, but suggest she chooses her words more wisely next time. A few people were offened by it. and alot of people confused by what she ment.
You're just trying to pin something on me, because you thought I said something against you as an American, which I never would. I only have a problem with her discriminating, nothing more, nothing less(I'm sure you do to). If her intentions were otherwise, I'll have to wait and see. I hope they are.

[Dutch]

I'm not trying to pin anything on you. You're telling her to choose her words wisely, yet you would use words like Nazi.
I don't think you've offended me nor do I care if you have something against Americans with elitist attitudes. You're just telling someone to choose word wisely, but then if they choose not too then you label them as a Nazi. That's what I don't get. How is a patriotic attitude (or selfish or elitists) labeled a Nazi?
If I have the choice to help out 8 children instead of 1 (Italian or something else) then I choose 8. Like I already said, you missed the second sentance in her post.

[koltman]

The way I read her thread is that, they should have priority over the italian, only because she is italian. Hence the use of "Nazi". Nothing about being patriotic here.
I don't have anything against the Americans, I stated that in my second post.
Of course I'd pick 8 over 1. But what is confusing, is she saying that or saying only because she's italian. I'm not the only one who was confused by this Hence why I said, choose your words wisely, because it was confusing and could be (and was) understood as an insult. That the people of the rest of the world are worthless.
The reason and only reason, I said what I did was because I felt she was discrimiating people, say hers were better than anyone else. I would of said the same thing, no matter where she is from.

[salmon_tacos]

Just one hypothetical question for anyone who would condemn Dragonlady for having a problem with this organ allocation to foreign citizens in the presence of a domestic shortage:

Should the U.S. government provide all people of the world with the same benefits as U.S. taxpayers? For example, should the U.S. government sent taxpayers' money to Italy for things like:

- building roads
- constructing public buildings
- providing welfare
- paying police and other public servants
- national defense
- providing health care
- etc.

?
If you're going to condemn Dragonlady for having a problem with the organ transplant issue, I think you'll have to condemn anyone who has a problem with the above scenario as well.

[Dutch]

salmon_tacos, good point.

koltman,

[koltman]

A few people, they didn't post. A couple were WB.com members who I was talking to over IM, my family were offended. I wrote what I did after they all came to the same conclusion.