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| Lower The Voting Age? |
| Yes |
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15% |
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| No |
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84% |
[ 22 ] |
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| Total Votes : 26 |
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BurkeViper
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 1313
City: Fresno
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 Posted: Mar 09, 2004 7:03 pm Post subject: Lower The Voting Age? |
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Today in my local newspaper there was a topic about lowering the voting age. It basically says this:
14 and 15 year olds would receive 1/4 of a vote.
16 and 17 year olds would receive 1/2 of a vote.
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/8252451p-9097353c.html
| Quote: | Teen vote bill would usher in a new age
Amendment would give 14-year-olds partial vote.
By Jennifer M. Fitzenberger
Bee Capitol Bureau
(Updated Tuesday, March 9, 2004, 8:54 AM)
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SACRAMENTO -- Fourteen-year-old Steven Patterson of Kingsburg doesn't want to wait four more years to vote in a state election.
He hopes to put what he's learned on the Internet, on television and in school to good use at the ballot box if a state constitutional amendment lowering the voting age is approved.
The measure, introduced Monday, would give 14- and 15-year-olds a quarter-vote and 16- and 17-year-olds a half-vote beginning in 2006. It requires two-thirds legislative approval to reach the November ballot.
"We believe it's time to open up the franchise to young Californians," said state Sen. John Vasconcellos, a Santa Clara Democrat who is carrying the measure.
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Supporters hope lowering the age would jump-start voter turnout and respect for teenagers' opinions, which they say is long overdue. Critics question the children's maturity level and say it would be difficult for election workers to count partial votes. The issue is sure to be a hot one, though it's unclear how it will fare in the Legislature. A similar proposal introduced in the mid-1990s by Jackie Speier, now a Democratic senator from Hillsborough, drew heated debate, even though it never was heard in a policy committee.
Assembly Member Ray Haynes, a Murrieta Republican, called the proposal "the nuttiest idea I've ever heard.
"There's a reason why 14-year-olds and 16-year-olds don't vote. They are not adults. They are not mature enough. They are easily deceived by political charlatans."
Bob Stern, president of the Center for Governmental Studies in Los Angeles, said the new measure is interesting. Lowering the age likely wouldn't boost voter turnout because young people usually don't flood the polls, he said.
In Fresno County, about 24% of registered voters ages 18 to 24 cast ballots in the 2002 general election, compared with about 78% of voters ages 65 to 80.
About 25% of the California voting population is younger than 30, according to 2000 census data.
More than 30 years ago, the United States lowered its voting age to 18 from 21.
Other countries also dropped their voting ages. In Israel, 17-year-olds can vote in local elections, and 16-year-olds can vote in parts of Austria and Germany, supporters say.
Vasconcellos said youths are more informed now than in years past. They're also getting jobs and paying taxes at a younger age, and they get drivers licenses when they turn 16.
"Today's 14-year-olds are 10 times as knowledgable as I was when I was 14," Vasconcellos said. "I think it's time we bring them into [the voting process] sooner rather than later."
Assembly Member Sarah Reyes, also a sponsor of the measure, said children often encourage their parents and other adults to vote.
"They don't have a choice about who represents them," said Reyes, a Fresno Democrat. "They just have to go along with what the adults say."
Vasconcellos said he chose the partial-vote system to ease children into the election world. Structuring it that way, he said, sends the message that he is serious about the issue.
Counting partial votes would create problems, Fresno County Clerk Victor Salazar said. Voting equipment, he said, would have to be updated at a time when counties already are struggling with tight budgets.
"Some counties would be harder hit than others, depending on the nature of their equipment," Salazar said. "I can't imagine how we would be able to meet that challenge."
Stern also said the change would be difficult.
"I've been a poll worker," he said. "It would cause even more confusion."
The Associated Press contributed to this report. The reporter can be reached at jfitzenberger@fresnobee.com or (916) 326-5541. |
Just wanted to know your opinions. |
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Sportster4Tec
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
Posts: 1237
City: Baton Rouge, LA
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think 14-16 maybe 17 year-olds really have enough understanding of issues and are mature enough to vote. Also, letting them have 1/4 votes and 1/2 votes would just get too confusing. I think the voting age is good where it is. Once you get out of highschool and your parents control and have to live on your own is when you are ready to vote.
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Jello John
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 1936
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think 14 and 15 year olds should vote based upon maturity and knowledge on our country's history and just on the way politics and our government operate. I'm not really sure on my stance for 16 and 17 year olds, however. I think there are many kids at these ages who are definitely capable of voting. I do also think it would increase interest in politics among kids.
I'm glad they're at least discussing the option of this. |
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Jim M
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 2933
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Nobody under 18 years of age deserves an opinion, period.
Kidding, I just wanted to drop that bomb. |
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Dragonlady8
Guest
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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How can you increase the interest in Politics for this age group, when all they care about is, whose going to bring back the Soda machines on campus?  |
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03Belmont
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 4656
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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I care about issuses.... Lower it I wanna vote!!  |
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beckah
Newbie
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 19
City: adelaide
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| i dont rekon they should coz people my age have no idea about politics and crap like that so our votes aren't helping |
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Jello John
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 1936
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| 03Belmont wrote: | | I care about issuses.... Lower it I wanna vote!! |
It's not necessarily about caring about issues, but rather that you understand them well enough so that you aren't voting purely on emotion.
There are many adults that are less deserving of the right to vote than some 16 year olds I know. But then again, there are also a lot of kids that just probably should vote. |
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Brandon Lee
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Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Posts: 532
City: Atlanta
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Definitley not. When I was 14 I knew hardly knew anything of the presidents. Now here I am at 18 and still dont know much. I need to keep up better.
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matt1808
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 05 Feb 2004
Posts: 1981
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I am 16 and I don't think the voting age should be lowered. We know history probably more than most adults because we have just finished learning it. But I don't think that many kids know any current politics like what people support and even who all is running.
Also I think that if you don't pay taxes you don't have much say in government. |
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salmon_tacos
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Posts: 2498
City: Austin
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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No.
I think it would basically give more votes to people who have a lot of kids. Most kids can hardly manage homework. Rather than trying to understand the issues, they'd probably just mimic their parents political views.
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Jello John
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 1936
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| matt1808 wrote: | | Also I think that if you don't pay taxes you don't have much say in government. |
I paid taxes before I turned 18. Most kids do get jobs and have to pay taxes.
| Brandon Lee wrote: | | Definitley not. When I was 14 I knew hardly knew anything of the presidents. Now here I am at 18 and still dont know much. I need to keep up better. |
Considering that your understanding of politics hasn't changed much, why do you feel that you are any more deserving of the right to vote?
| salmon_tacos wrote: | No.
I think it would basically give more votes to people who have a lot of kids. Most kids can hardly manage homework. Rather than trying to understand the issues, they'd probably just mimic their parents political views. |
Good point. Still, there are plenty of kids that do think for themselves. |
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scott a
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 9810
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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well god damn...i thought this was just a stupid berkeley-protester-happy-lets-make-a-new-law-idea...
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NorCalStud686
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 1410
City: Nor*Cali-Forn-i-a
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think mabye they should lower it to atleast 16. i for one would vote if i had the chance, i think if they did lower it the percetage of people who vote would still remain pretty close to the same number it is at now. i mean it would still be likeit is today, if your old enough to vote and you want to vote, you will, if you are old enough to vote, and you dont want to vote, or have no want to vote, then you wont.
| Quote: |
Rather than trying to understand the issues, they'd probably just mimic their parents political views.
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I dont think that is entirely true, but not entirely false either. yes, a lot of kids get a huge influence from thier parents, But i dont think that the majority of the kids will neccisarily only listen to thier parents views. A lot of people do the same thing, but mimic things on TV, Radio etc.. so you really cant just say that about kids.
Also take my father for example he is very Liberal in a lot of areas, but also conservative. Im not going to say im "anti-Liberal", but im not fond of them, and i disagree with a lot of things that they believe in.
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NorCalStud686
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 1410
City: Nor*Cali-Forn-i-a
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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I paid taxes before I turned 18. Most kids do get jobs and have to pay taxes.
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I pay taxes, and i am still a minor.
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finkle
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I remember i high school we talked about the issues and those thypes of current events everyday. In fact, at the time, we knew more about the issues of the elections than most people did.
But, since you are a minor and certain laws won't pertain to you, then you shouldn't be eligible to vote.
I vote no. haha
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03Belmont
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 4656
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Matt1808, I pay taxes and I'm under 18..... Also imo everyone pays taxes because think about it when ever u but a candy bar lets say u have to add lets say 9 cents to the price because you are paying tax on it... But I do pay the other kind of tax also... I have a job   |
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Bill Y Bob
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Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 1014
City: S.L.C.
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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I would say that if they require a US government and citizenship class (like they have here in Utah), then 16 year old kids and up should be able to vote. Most kids don't have an understanding of how the whole government system works, so it does them no good to be able to vote. On the other hand, how much of a difference would it make if kids could vote? Their votes would be so minimal that it would be a long shot for their votes to truly count.
I just think they should forget the whole idea. It is a waste of time and money. Most teens could care less about politics because their mind is on other stuff like the opposite sex, money, clothes, etc. |
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koltman
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Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 902
City: Sydney/Orlando
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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In England its 18 (but I don't have the right to vote), they had talks about lowering the age, but nothing came of it.
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finkle
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: Mar 09, 2004 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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03Belmont, what the hell do you do? I thought you were 14. What can you do legally to get a paycheck paying taxes....other than being a sacker at a grocery store?
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03Belmont
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Joined: 19 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 5:06 am Post subject: |
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| kswiss, not 14... and I clean up on house sights (like sweeping and general pickup and stuff) with one of my friends with ... totally leagal......... and we made a pretty good chunck of money last year... or atlest alot to 15 and 16 year olds.... |
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03Belmont
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 5:10 am Post subject: |
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totally leagal....
| Quote: | Child Labor (Non-Agricultural)
¥ Youths 18 years or older may perform any job for unlimited hours;
¥ Youths age 16 and 17 may perform any job not declared hazardous by theSecretary of Labor, for unlimited hours;
¥ Youths age 14 and 15 may work outside school hours in variousnonmanufacturing, nonmining, nonhazardous jobs under the following conditions: no more than 3 hours on a school day, 18 hours in a school week, 8 hours on a nonschool day, or 40 hours in a nonschool week. In
addition, they may not begin work before 7 a.m. nor work after 7 p.m., except from June 1 through Labor Day, when evening hours are extended until 9 p.m. Youths aged 14 and 15 who are enrolled in an approved Work Experience and Career Exploration Program (WECEP) may be employed for up to 23 hours in school weeks and 3 hours on school days (including during school hours). |
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Neognosis
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Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 5:16 am Post subject: |
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YOu should not be able to vote until you are 18 or at the very least, until you are not counted as somebody else's dependent on their tax form.
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DaveBrowning
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 5:57 am Post subject: |
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No, I don't think we should lower the voting age. We should worry about getting our 18 - mid 20 year old's to vote before we let younger more immature people vote.
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Jello John
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 1936
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Bill Y Bob wrote: | | Most teens could care less about politics because their mind is on other stuff like the opposite sex, money, clothes, etc. |
That could be a result of kids under 18 having little or no say in our government. |
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03Belmont
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Joined: 19 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
That could be a result of kids under 18 having little or no say in our government.
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Exzackly  |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 7:53 am Post subject: |
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You are still minor until you are 18. Minor's can't vote.
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Leggester
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 6961
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 8:11 am Post subject: |
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The biggest problem lowering the voting age, IMHO, would be that the kids do not have any practical experience, nor much clue as to where or how money and cash flow come from.
For example, my boys when they were in their teens thought all the social programs inthe world were great. Now, that they have jobs and pay taxes, they have quite a different opinion of the country's "users".
Personally, I think only taxpayers should vote. No welfare mommas/poppas/babies should have a say in this.
Ooooh! Shades of Starship Troopers!
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 8:18 am Post subject: |
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By saying that only taxpayers can vote you eliminate the unemployed and/or extremely poor. That's contrary to what America is all about.
Maybe only landowners should only vote then? I mean, because I own land and a house and pay a lot more taxes than a renter, shouldn't I have more say? Maybe I should get two votes?
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jvanick
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Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 892
City: Fox River, Illinois
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 8:19 am Post subject: |
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I think another issue of having the voting age be lowered would be that parents could really influence how their kids vote. How many kids younger than 18 really have a different view when it comes to politics than their parents?
-J |
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03Belmont
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 4656
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Maybe only landowners should only vote then? I mean, because I own land and a house and pay a lot more taxes than a renter, shouldn't I have more say? Maybe I should get two votes?
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thats not really fair.... thats back to like the 1700s maby it shoud be "White male propety owners over 21 years old"
Last edited by 03Belmont on Mar 10, 2004 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 8:26 am Post subject: |
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I was making a point that you can't keep people from voting because they don't pay taxes.
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PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 6961
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Most whites, whether they own property or not are over 21 inches belmont. 
And yes CB, that is my intent. The Democratic party has done more to keep people poor than any other party. Hence, for some wierd reason, the poor on all the social programs the democrats want to use to keep them voting democratic keep voting for the democrats!
You do realise the 'rich' that kerry is talking about with all the tax breaks include a family of 4 making above $50K?
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NorCalStud686
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 1410
City: Nor*Cali-Forn-i-a
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Personally, I think only taxpayers should vote. No welfare mommas/poppas/babies should have a say in this.
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i agree. and i about the part about tax-payers, i guess that would rule out contractors too *If you are a Contractor and you pay taxes, it was not meant to offend you*
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Mar 10, 2004 9:52 am Post subject: |
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That's one of the most un-American things I've heard in a while. Voting can not, and must not, ever, ever, ever, under any circumstances, be tied to personal income in any way, shape, or form, and that includes how much, if any, taxes a person pays. This is one of the most basic, fundamental rights that America stands for.
Anyway, if you purchase anything at all besides basic food items, you pay a tax.
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