What exactly do you mean when you say you're saved?

toothpick

So, because it isn't wakeboard related (hint hint) I decided to probe a bit more into the "Christian Wakeboarders" post that's currently going on.

As many people in here know, I am LDS, aka Mormon. I've already had some in depth conversations with others under the post "Mormons." I don't want to repeat myself, so search that one if you want to ask me about Mormons. My intent is to ask some questions that have confused me for a while.

Okay, I have heard many people say that they were saved on a certain date and such. What does this mean? I know it's accepting Christ into your life and truly meaning it. However, those I have talked to don't seem to claim that sinning is necessarily anything wrong as long as you were truly saved. As in, there's a huge gray area that baffles me about that belief. It seems as though under that set of beliefs, you have to participate in an act to be saved (declaring your belief and total devotion to Christ), yet other actions after that really hold no significance, unless it's something terribly bad, like murder or something.

That's where I'll start this. I'll do my best to have a good non-attacking discussion where we can learn, that would be great if others do too when responding. Wink

Porterwake · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 5:41 pm Post subject:

I am religious, but by believing in "Christ" I don't consider myself saved...
I think as long as your a good person to people and do all that stuff, you don't have to worry about reaching this paradise after death. And I know I haven't really commited any huge thing that would neccesarily put me on "hells list"

As for being "saved," I think that would be someone who is a bad person who turns his life around and is a good person after that. You know, bad guy go good thing. He's saved.

As for the non-believers:
if you don't believe in God, maybe he'll understand that and save you in the end anyway for being a good person.

I'm not forcing it that "God" exists, but if he does, that's what I think

timmy · Addict Joined: 18 Jun 2003 Posts: 882 City: Jupiter, FL

i think the notion of being 'saved' is selfish. god loves everyone. not just individualswho have accepted him and think they deserve special treatment.

midwesty · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 7:08 pm Post subject:

Zach M · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 7:29 pm Post subject:

I don't think that saying you're saved is selfish. God may love everyone, but it says in the bible that unless you accept him into your life you will not get to go to heaven. The word "saved" comes from the idea that when you accept God into your life, you are saved from hell (and get to go to heaven).

toothpick,

I believe that once you devote yourself to Christ, that you must listen to his teachings in the Bible and follow His rules. I believe that many people write Christianity off and call us hypocrites because there are so many people out there who say they're Christians but believe that its ok to sin. Jesus died for our sins so that we can be forgiven. He will forgive you if you ask, but I still believe that you must do your best to keep yourself pure. Let me know if you have any other questions.

midwesty · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 7:43 pm Post subject:

how hard is that to follow rules?? just use your best judgment....i sure dont need Christ or God to tell me how to live

Fauker · Soul Rider Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Posts: 471 City: Charlotte

I have a couple of questions...

1) What is the point of baptizing?

2) What exactly is praying supposed to do?

salmon_tacos · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 8:09 pm Post subject:

Faulker,

1. Look at all the rites and rituals that religions have. What's the point of any of them? I think baptism is just a symbolic thing to Christianity and that anyone who takes it too literally is being superstitious.

2. I think praying serves a purpose for religious people. When people pray, I think they are really just being deeply introspective. They are surrendering themselves to thought and clarifying, for themselves, the answers that they have in their own subconscious minds. That's in the best case. When it's just, "Please God, let me get an A on the test," it's pretty worthless.

Zach M,

You said, "The word "saved" comes from the idea that when you accept God into your life, you are saved from hell (and get to go to heaven). " What do you think about the possibility that "accepting God into your life" can be as simple as living your life the way you know is right...treating people with respect and kindness, etc? How about the idea of finding "God" in things like love, beauty, and charity rather than old stories, rituals, icons, and a specific set of moral values (some which are outdated)?

Zach M · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 8:59 pm Post subject:

I think that accepting God into your life is just that. I think that living your life the way you know is right is not accepting God into your life. I'm not trying to force my views onto anyone else. I totally respect anyone who makes right decisions. I don't think that you can say you've accepted God into your life if you haven't. It's as simple as that.

I totally believe in finding God in things like love beauty and charity. I believe that those old stories you're talking about serve a purpose. They are teaching tools that help us to understand the way that God wants us to live. I don't know what rituals and icons you're talking about. I'm not catholic. I do believe that the specific set of moral values are very relevent in the world today. There are some outdated rules that were in the old testament (like cutting your hair and tattoos). I don't believe that I am to follow those. I use my best judgement as to what God wants me to do in my life.

Josh R · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 9:56 pm Post subject:

Saved from the horrible, horrible freedom to live your life as you see fit.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I can't stand religion. I can't like something that causes so much hate and bloodshead in our world.

And NO you can't preach to me to make me change my views. It'll be falling on deaf ears, and I hope that annoys you...

And I sound like an a$$hole, 'cos I am...

James K. · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 10:12 pm Post subject:

well josh it says in the bible that not all people will be open to what the world has to bring them. saying that you hope it annoys you is not just being an Ahole it is showing that you have hate, and when you read this you will probably realize that and deny it in a later post and even show your hate again.

being Religious and believing in God are two totally seperate things. never in the bible does it say that we must go to church and that we have to do the things that Religion brings to the world. it says that we must have no other god before him and study his word, live by his word, and share that word with others. if in any of those things you can see where you would have to have a church than you can call me a liar.

soon if not already YOU will discover how insignificant you are in the whole sceme of the world, that is the dramatic irony of life. that we will discover that the entire world does not focus completely around us and there has to be a beging and an end. it says in the bible that God will come to you not you go to him, if you have asked him in your life it is because he has already spoken to you. no god does not always talk through a burning bush or jesus or even directly to you, but through his grace in other people you are able to see and here him. he loves you and soon enough people will figure that out. whether it is when you are on your death bed or you are four years old you will learn and you will see.

good people dont get into heaven people who believe in jesus christ get into heaven and through jesus they will be good people.

Lindsay · Posted: Aug 31, 2003 10:27 pm Post subject:

The Bible was written by man, actually many men in many versions in many languages. It's not a pure source for the truth.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
-- Galileo Galilei

Josh R · Posted: Sep 01, 2003 1:30 am Post subject:

Yep, I have hate. No doubt. Knew it when I wrote the post too.

I used to believe in God, wasn't religious, but I believed there was someone, something there. I used to believe in Santa too...

Glad I don't now though. I'm glad I can live my life without a cloud over my head, without having to be 'god fearing'. I feel my morals and core values that I have within me are all that I need to believe in.

Sure I'm insignificant, realise that too. Computer is about to shut down, I might finish this rambling another time...

toothpick · Posted: Sep 01, 2003 5:55 am Post subject:

Okay, Zach M, so I think I understand it now by what you're saying. Basically, when people say they were saved on a certain date, it's more of a realization. Like they decided to change their lifestyle or something is what it sounds like to me. That makes more sense now than people claiming that just BAM, they're saved and that's it, weeeeeeee!

Well, I'm off to a tiny lake today hoping that nobody else is there. Later.

Chales · Guest

midwesty · Posted: Sep 01, 2003 6:37 am Post subject:

i just dont like the fact the "in the bible" it says not to worship objects, materials, and pegan gods or whatever....but what does the church provide??these big gawdy statues with gold and sliver and ivory for people to pray at and worship...then when u go to church all they do is ask for freakin money!! the catholic church is one of the biggest entities out there as far as wealth and real estate and these assholes are still askin for money....i heard that just the Boston Ma. diocese is worth over 50 billion in real estate property alone...not counting the money that they collect each and every day....huge churches, gold statues, just dont make much sense.

and as far as the hair and tattoos go...so now u just decide which parts of the bible you decide to follow and which parts you do not?

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

I used to into the whole religion thing, it's amazing how I used to think about it without question. It's kind of cult like. I still hope there is a God and afterlife, but I think that belief is illogical.

Nick
________
CLASS ACTION SETTLEMENT

lowflyer · Criminal Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Posts: 88 City: nm

There isn't any gawdy statues or goldladn silver in any church around here and the only thing that gets worshiped in my church is God. I can't speak for the church in Boston but at my church the money that is given doesn't goto buying the preach a new car or house, it takes that money to make the church function. Another thing is that it's not expected for you to give money, especially visitors, giving is a result of your love for God and for your church family. If no one gives then the bills don't get paid and you don't have a place to worship together. Zach hit it right on the head about being saved, it's a decision to let God into your heart and put him b4 everything else, which is very hard to do at times. Baptism, at least in my denomination, is a basically just the result of being saved, it's more symbolic i guess you would say, and it shows your church family that you're committed and devoted to God and them also.

There is definately a problem with religion in the world that we live in, this has been dealt with in my church just like everyone else. Times change and people must change with them as well as our styles of worship. If it were up to the old people in my church all we would sing is the old hymns from long ago but now that we have some younger people takin charge the music has change and the style of worship has even changed, but the reason we're there has not changed. I can very easily understand how people can not like christianity cuz of some bad examples that they have seen but you've been witness to people imprisoned in religion and not imprisoned by the love of god. It is hard for me to understand when people think that we, as humans, are the biggest things in this world and everything revolves around us. And guys i truly believe that the majority of you are all good people, but being a good guy and doing good things won't get you to heaven. You gotta believe! I believe that the life we're living now is gonna be the smallest part of my entire existence and cannot even compare to the eternity left in my life. But that's just me. Peace

Chales · Guest

"You gotta believe!"

Why? What? How do you know it will get me into heaven?

lowflyer · Criminal Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Posts: 88 City: nm

Believe that there is only one God, that he is the creator of all things, and that he gave his only son to save us from our sins so that we will one day goto to heaven to be with him. I know that it will get us to heaven because that's what God told us through his disciples and through his son.

Chales · Guest

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

Neither God nor his disciples has ever told me anything, everything I know was told to me from a person or from the bible, which was given to me by a person. If I lived in Iraq I would have heard completely different things, same thing if I was in China, only 30% of the world is Christian. If it was that important wouldn't God make it more widespread? Why would God rely on the clergyman of the day to deliver such an important message. If you raise a baby you can get them to strongly believe in anything you want.

Nick
________
Perpetual Insurance Advice

lowflyer · Criminal Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Posts: 88 City: nm

Yes the bible is absolutely where you find out that God's follower's will be with him in heaven. No problem with the questions, not uncomfortable at all, I'll answer anything that i can for you and if i don't have the answers I'll find them.

Chales · Guest

How can you be so sure that the Bible is God's word though? There are so many different versions and different authors and contradictions and people claiming that their Bible is "right" that it just makes me turn away from it. People used to say that the Bible was written by God through peoples' hands and should be taken for truth historically and "virtuely". Now people say that it used to be all historically accurate but time and miscopyings have messed it up. There is just too much controversy around it for me to truely deep down in my heart believe it.

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

I don't believe the bible is God's word at all, I think it is a collection of writings by people who claim God talked to them. There are people like that today, such as the guy who died in Waco, TX, only in todays time the average citizen is smart enough not to believe them. Though many still do believe people like that, like his followers they. They were all 100% convinced and ready to die for it, just like many of the terrorist you see today. You raise someone believe in these things and they will die for them, just as many of you would die for christianity.

Nick
________
Uggs

lowflyer · Criminal Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Posts: 88 City: nm

There are different versions but not different authors. The different versions are made so that people can understand the bible more easily, and there are a ton of versions out there but they're wonderful tools also. Times have changed along with the language and that makes it hard for most of us to understand the exact words in the bible therefore it has been reworded, but not changed the meaning. Here's a good site you can check out with more answers than i could give you.
http://www.carm.org/index.html

Fauker · Soul Rider Joined: 20 Jan 2003 Posts: 471 City: Charlotte

I should hope we could all agree that we don't exist before birth....

that being said, it seems pretty logical to say after death we just cease to exist (again), does it not?

but it seems religion is too conceited for that...

lowflyer · Criminal Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Posts: 88 City: nm

more info
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp

King of the Tigers · Posted: Sep 01, 2003 2:00 pm Post subject:

Wow! Religious threads in here are pretty fun and I'm glad there's been no name calling. (yet)

Fauker, why do you hope we don't exist before birth? I think we do.

Also to Josh R, Chales, and anyone else who views religion as just a bunch of rules. I see your point and agree that many religions are just a bunch of rules designed to get people to comply. (Holy Roman Empire for example, was it about saving people or keeping power?) I see religion as a facilitator for my relationship with God. But my relationship with God is more important than my religion. I am as free as you are to make any choice. And I mean no disrespect but I feel I am more free in that I understand what the consequences for my actions are. By the way, I also have no desire to change you, etc. I came to my own conclusions after much soul searching and feel everyone should.

That having been said I did not always personally understand religion. I used to be bitter that others were having "fun" and my parents tried to keep me away from certain things. But the older i get (24) the more I realize, hey! there are a lot more doors open to me because of living the lifestyle my parents raised me with.

board_boy · Outlaw Joined: 04 May 2003 Posts: 230 City: blacksburg

Lindsay · Posted: Sep 01, 2003 3:00 pm Post subject:

Chales · Guest

To me, the basis of all Christian religions comes down to the Bible. That's where you are supposed to find the "answers" to everything. But now, over time, even the Bible is coming into question, and if you can't say that you fully believe everything in the Bible (and I can't), then how can you truely believe in your religion?
I think it's great that the Bible gives us virtues and principles to follow and live by, and I believe that there is definately something out there that watches over us all and keeps us in check and can do supernatural things etc., because I have had my fair share of "unexplained" things happen to me, and I guess that it could be called God. I can also agree with the idea that God is Love, but that's as far as it goes for me.

Rockstar · Outlaw Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 164

Wow...this is some good stuff all of you are coming up with. I would just like to say that I am catholic and just to clear some stuff up we don't worship the statues and the money doesn't go to buying the priest a new car. Most of the money at least as far as I know goes to a good cause. Yea I was sorta confused about what they meant by the saved thing too. I had a guy ask me if I was saved last night. I was like what? I think its good if you just live your life the best you can. Very Happy

Zach M · Posted: Sep 01, 2003 5:22 pm Post subject:

Chales,
I know you said that you don't want us to say "you've just gotta have faith," but thats what it is. There will never be solid answers until you die or until the Lord comes back. That is where faith plays a role. I believe in God because of the amazing work that I have seen Him do in my life, along with many people I know. The world has so many problems, I choose to believe that when I die, I can go to a better place. In order to get to that place (according to the Bible), you must accept Christ into your life.

Rockstar · Outlaw Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 164

Right.