Heelside W2W jump, board is not flat with nose pointed up!

eugeneka · Criminal Joined: 20 May 2003 Posts: 76

It seems like I also have a problem with my heelside pop. I can clear two wake easily but with only speed... that means I have the distance but never the pop. Also, I seem to have the problem that whenever I go up, my board is not flat... the nose is always tilted up and the back is always down... my friend said I had been putting too much weight on my backfoot but not standing tall or popping with my front foot... any tip on this one?

wakeboarder · Addict Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 702

keep your weight evenly on both feet. stand tall at the wake so your knees dont adsorb the pop

ramen · Newbie Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 9

speed=distance
edge=big

wakekid11 · Posted: Jul 23, 2003 8:04 pm Post subject:

make sure you're on the edge of your board when you cut and make you jump. if you flaten out on the wake, you won't get that good of pop.

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

BIGMAC · Posted: Jul 24, 2003 5:46 am Post subject:

Yes speed and edge are related but you MUST stay on edge through the wake to get big air.

Tantrum387 · Newbie Joined: 20 Jul 2003 Posts: 33

you have to go up the wake and get pop not just cut as hard as you can and plow through it. if you just go right through it and dont pop you'll go across the wakes but you'll get like 2 feet of air.

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

Ok, then I need help.

Can someone host a video for me? Cause this is my second season of boarding and I have yet to feel 'pop' (well, i have felt it, and even have what I think is 'it' on video... but when it happens it is completel by accident and I flail widley and fall... and am unable replicate it). I can do a wrapped 360, 180's in the air all 4 ways (obviously only w2w on HS as you can cheat on HS and just bend your knees like crazy and kinda 'jump' and manage 2 or so feet of air... 3 on a good day), I can do 180's ollies and butterslides like nothing. Riding switch is about 90% as good for me as riding 'normal'. I am actually getting close to pulling a back roll around (I just need to get a LITTLE bit higher... 1-2 feet just aint doing it) and a 360 without being wrapped can be gotten too.

We use a decent boat 17' Lund and load it down so the wake seems pretty large compared to any other boats I have access to. Our board is a 2001 Free Motion Escape and the Bindings are Nice (friends, he got the entire set board, bindings, rope for 250 bucks) No pylon or tower, but we use the 'skier tow' cleat-thing so it's not as bad as a woggle hanging in the water. We have the rope at about 40-45 feet out (as thats wher the wake seems the 'crispest'... not frothy) and we travel at 20-21mph.

I don't get what is wrong. I've read nearly every damn post on the subject, and all the 'tips' in the world saying 'progressive edge'....

I 'edge' hard... i go fast. I don't edge hard (replicating the lateral speed I see in the videos on here) and try to edge 'progressively' and I go about 2 inches off the water and look like a dufus. There HAS to be something I'm doing wrong... can anyone host a vid for me and tell me what my problem is.

As of now (comparing my vid to the HS W2W vid on this site), it looks like I need to:
--- Get my legs straight with about 1 board length left befor the top of the wake. I seem to be straightening as I hit the top of the wake. I should be _straight_ (well, 85 degrees or whatever) in the 'trough' of the wake, not straight_ening... apparently. When I try this however, it seems that it either doesn't make a differnce or it makes a change for the worse.
--- I need the handle lower to my hips... right now it's closer to my chest. I have not notices this (just got camera that can do vids) before so I haven't tired it... could that make ALL the difference between zero 'pop' and feet worth of air?
--- Looksing really close, it almost looks like one is suppose to even further straighten the back leg as you go up the wake, while holding the front one taut.

Anyone host and help me out a bit?/ I'm so frustrated... I feel like I could be doing these tricks and such with so much more flair and ease than I am now...

Thanks...
JOE

Sportster4Tec · Posted: Jul 25, 2003 1:53 pm Post subject:

You can post your video on the media guide here on this site or at www.wakepics.com . Then just give the url for it and people can go and watch it.

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

I'm going to go out this weekend and do my damnedest to follow your guy's advice again. I'll try to get a good vid of my efforts... hopefully i don't have to post it. Wink

Later...
JOE

on second thought, I'm going to see what I can do just to test post. I guess I can try to get it set up (I'll need to figure out editing stuff for .mov's first... so it will be in the following post) for when I come back...

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=3663

Ok, there is a test vid.

Let me know. to me, looking it at now, it is obvious I need to go faster. On the second one, I'm 'jumping' which is no good.... I think I do ok on the thrid, but apparently I need to go way, way faster... is this right? Argh...

JOE

p.s. I'm going out this weekend again, so I can try some things out then.

wakeboarder · Addict Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 702

i could only view the first one. how long is your line? how fast are you going

breaK · Newbie Joined: 22 Jul 2003 Posts: 5

in my opinion, you need to cut out farther. it looks like your only cutting out about 8 feet. Usually you can get good air from 8 feet out but i also noticed that when your cutting in to hit the wake you are stopping yourself or slowing yourself down. Remember to edge all the way through the wake, and pretend your sitting in a lawnchair and lean back hard Very Happy

maximumbob · Newbie Joined: 28 Jul 2003 Posts: 20 City: long Island

ur def flatting out going into the wake and it really looks like you need another 10ft on the line....cut out abt 20-25 ft and edge into the wake...dont stop ...crouch going in and stand tall as your board goes up the wake so that you are up tall when u reach maximum part of the crest ...DONT do this too late as the act of pushing your body up will just mush the board into the wake and dampen the pop (remember newton: every action has an equal and opp reaction...let the 'reaction' be your pop and not the flattening of the wake)

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

Cool guys, thanks for the tips. I'll give'r a shot this weekend (looking at the vid over and over and over while I was converting it (and doing a crappy job, if I do say so myself...hehe) made me think the rope was too short and I needed to go faster (aka: cut out further) and learn back harder... )

Some things I never would have noticed without having someone else (who knows what they are doing) help me... thank you guys.

I'll be sure to post a vid or two of my SUCCESSES this weekend. ;0) (even if the weather is looking crappy via weather.com and I'll only be able to go like 1 or 2 runs... I'll make some vids... hehe)

Speaking of vids... anyone know a good .mov editing program that is free? Vdub for avi's and mpg's and such works wonders, but what about .mov for free?

JOE

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

Chales · Guest

wakeboarder · Addict Joined: 24 Apr 2003 Posts: 702

make your rope about 50-60ft, and go a little faster, 22-23mph

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

Ok, I can't do it.

I tried holding the rope lower on my hips instead of near my chest... no difference, but I did keep it there the whole weekend anyway, just for good form.

We added 12 feet to the rope (so now it is 52 feet) and we sped up to 21-23mph. The wake was wider farther back and we needed to mess with the trim to make it 'clean'... but all in all it was a nice wake, I like the change and I'll be staying with it. I can clear it W2W when 'cheating' but still feel zero 'pop'. TS I can go balls out and get 1 foot of air and clear the wake... same with fakie.

I cut out really far (I'd say 20+ feet-- 45 degrees to the boat... whatever that distance is with a 52 foot rope) and came in edging harder and harder as I got closer and closer... granted I went farther (and perhaps a bit higher) but never did I break more than 1.25 foot with 'good technique' - No matter how far out I started from. Cut out then waited out wide till the boat pulled me back in, then slowly started to trun my board and lean more and more until I hit the wake. I tried more and more speed, less and less, (edging faster and harder or quicker or all sorts of combos) enough speed to clear the wake, slow enough that it would have been impossible, and everything in between. Looking at vids (which most have since been erased... damn parents and there desire for sunset pics) everything leading up to when we actually hit the air looks exactly the same as the example vid for the HS W2W on this site.

Straightened up earlier, later, not at all... nothing got me more than a foot off the water.

Leaned on my edge all the way through (as in, I just stayed on it and landed in the exact position I took off from and continued out to my toeside at the same speed I was coming into the wake from my heelside) but still nothing. Well, it did get me a hurt ankle but the swelling is going down so that's not something I can 'take with me'... hehe

The only thing I can do is 'cheat'... going faster with a longer rope helped here. I bend down really far (say, about 80 degrees on the knees, maybe even further... yes, past 90 degrees) and then as I'm going up the ramp of the wake, I stand up FAST. Not quite a jump but standing up REALLY REALLY FAST... it basically looks like I'm jumping but instead of using my toes I just push on the board. This gets me about 3 feet of air... but god it is tiring. and I can't go any higher (if I try to 'stand-up-jump' higher/faster, I come out of my bindings as I try to pull the board up with my feet)... I credit my 37 inch vertical with being able to pull this off.
'cheating' I can nearly get 360's (I made the pass, but over rotated) and backrolls... but I have yet to feel pop after 2 full summers of riding.

What the hell!!?!? Seriously, I went probably 5 times on friday on glass every time. each pull lasting about 30 min or so... with falls and what not, of course. Sore as hell I did the same on Saturday (but with the boat packed with weight this time) - raining ever-so-slightly so it was glass and no other boats. Sunday was nice weather so there were boats out and I only went 2wice. Still... no pop. I printed this and many other posts out and followed the instructions to a T. watched vids of myself and all that.

People on here mention jumping is just standing tall and hitting the wake and it's like a spring on eht bottome of your board... how come the only time I'm able to get any height at all I get it by jumping soas to LIFT the baord up with my feet. They say it takes no effort really and the 'wake does the work'... well, my quads are killing me and all the wake seems to do is mark the place where I should start my jumping.

On a plus note... I did pull a ollie 180, 180 on the first wake, 180 on the second wake, and another ollie 180 on the other side of the wake (int he flats) all on the same pass across the wake. (4 180's in the span of about 8 seconds) starting in all 4 positions (starting from heelside normal, toeside normal, toeside fakie, heelside fakie)... so a total of 16 180's in the span of < a min. 'twas very happy with that. I also landed blindside 180's (granted, I'm only getting 1 foot of air so they look crappy... but I was proud) all air and surface and ollie.

Oh and I tried the whole "lay on your back on th ewater and pull yourself back up' trick... I did it ... once. after many a time of the baord slipping out. when I did it, I felt no sense of accomplishment though... just skip this trick guys. heheh

I may get to go out next weekend, but I'm not sure. it's starting to become more of an excercise in frustration trying to feel 'pop' rather than someting fun and with my amount of air I feel I'm basically limited and running into a ceiling on what I can do. (the people int he boat can only watch so many 180's before it becomes passe). My riding partners don't have a boat and thus don't go as often but they also have no 'pop' so I have no one to 'show me' ... and I think I have learned as much as I can about 'pop' from this site - and I still can't do it. DAMN IT! This sport was so much fun. mother bitch. Oh well...

JOE

Lakebaby · Newbie Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Posts: 7

I was having the same issue and it is super frustrating...I'm pbly not the best to give advice but I did get some good advice the other day that helped me a ton. He had the driver pull me faster, and told me not to cut out so far - go out about half the way and just work on the technique and trying to get the feeling of the pop...just work on that first and later combine it w/ clearing the wake. Also, like everyone here says, come in w/ bent legs and when you hit the wake sort of straighten up...they said pretend like I'm either jumping one step or jumping on a trampoline...it worked perfect and it also flattened my board out, I was having the same issue w/ the front of mine going up. This will help you feel the pop and once you get that down and the timing you can add other stuff to it. Again - I just started a couple months ago but this is just the advice I was given and it worked awesome! Good luck!

micjester · Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2003 Posts: 37 City: Minnesota

A tip that helped me greatly was to edge and stand tall using your shoulders not your ass. Just keep practicing, you'll feel the pop once....and that's all it takes Cool

lowcrawler · Newbie Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 26

Thanks guys, I got to use a new board yesterday and it felt a little better, but I just went out and had fun (the water was $h177y anyway... damn TC area lakes are so busy when it is nice) so I never 'tried' for the 'pop' or anything.... This weekend though, I'm going up north for the last time this summer so I'll be giving it a shot for sure.

Thanks guys... you have been a great help. I'll let you know how it turns out. I'm really pumped to give it another go..

JOE

Will · Posted: Aug 08, 2003 2:40 pm Post subject:

What I do to encourage guys to get more pop off the wake is to start off by doing toeside to heelside jumps and back again (over and over) , starting off about 3 foot out from the wake and getting further and further out eash time they cross. They really get the feel of the pop and try to go bigger each time, and the extra foot or 2 of edging really gives them the feel of riding up the wake. Hope that makes sense

wakeboarder_dude22 · Soul Rider Joined: 28 Mar 2003 Posts: 409 City: Australia

Do you actually feel the pop, or can you just tell by how high you get? If so, what does the pop feel like?

Rock-N-Boradin · Newbie Joined: 11 Aug 2003 Posts: 22

Go out 20 feet or so, let the rope tension build before you start your cut, start with a little lean and progresively lean harder and edge harder timing it so you are at your maximum edge as you hit the wake. Don't back off, go balls to the wall. The other two parts, keep your knees bent, like your in a crouch, as you hit the wake stand up, you don't need to jump or slam your feet down just stand. "visualize it like the long distance snow ski jumpers, who at the end of their ramp just stand up straight" you should get the pop your looking for.