Oracle Team USA hit with harsh penalties in America’s Cup
Team docked two points, key sailor and two shore crewmen expelled as international jury hands down verdict over illegal modifications four days before historic regatta to begin.
the modifications happened in a warm up series that used a different boat than the america's cup itself uses. i don't know exactly what was done to the boat or when, but it seems to me that penalizing the team in the america's cup in a completely different boat is silly.
the warm up series was a series of races in the smaller AC45 boats. the america's cup itself and the LV cup are being raced in AC72 boats. i can understand why the team is upset. i think they gave up the trophies and prize money for winning the warm up, and there has been no indication that they have done anything to their big boats. the results in the AC45s really don't have any impact on the LV Cup or the america's cup itself, other than giving the teams more practice together.
the modifications happened in a warm up series that used a different boat than the america's cup itself uses. i don't know exactly what was done to the boat or when, but it seems to me that penalizing the team in the america's cup in a completely different boat is silly.
the warm up series was a series of races in the smaller AC45 boats. the america's cup itself and the LV cup are being raced in AC72 boats. i can understand why the team is upset. i think they gave up the trophies and prize money for winning the warm up, and there has been no indication that they have done anything to their big boats. the results in the AC45s really don't have any impact on the LV Cup or the america's cup itself, other than giving the teams more practice together.
Right, AC45s are one-design meaning every boat uses all the same parts and measure identically. These 3 individuals and the team are being penalized for adding weight to the boat which helps these boats go faster upwind.
That said the ACWS is not the LV Cup or even the America's Cup. The LV Cup and America's Cup are sailed on AC72s which are "box rule" boats meaning there are certain parameters that boats must fit in but everything else plays. There is no accusation on those boats nor would it really matter. _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
weird that the penalty from one set of races affects another that has no connection. even in soccer, everyone starts w/ a clean slate when the world cup starts, even if you got a yellow in your last match.
jt09, the America's Cup and LV Cup that selects the challenger are a bit of an anomaly in the sport and even the sporting world as it is the trophy and the deed of gift for that trophy that dictate the how the event takes place. Litigation and oddities around each event always pop up and my guess is that somehow the ACWS was incorporated into this years event agreements making penalties applicable. _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
so what's going on here, mik? are we getting our ass kicked or what?
yes. it would have been over yesterday if they hadn't dicked around at the start for so long. it's 8-3 going into the races tomorrow. we have to win six more races before the kiwis win one. it's not looking good for the usa team. the kiwis seem to be more tactically astute and better in light wind. the americans are better in the heaviest wind.
so what's going on here, mik? are we getting our ass kicked or what?
yes. it would have been over yesterday if they hadn't dicked around at the start for so long. it's 8-3 going into the races tomorrow. we have to win six more races before the kiwis win one. it's not looking good for the usa team. the kiwis seem to be more tactically astute and better in light wind. the americans are better in the heaviest wind.
Sorry, I've been absent on this one...
Oracle Team USA tied it up after winning 2 today and 7 straight races. The points are tied at 8 all with 9 taking the Cup.
Fly Emirates Team New Zealand was dialed early but haven't won a race in 6 days and do not seem to be making adjustments. OTUSA was pinned down and had nothing to lose so they kept modifying their boat and have gained a bunch of speed. They also made changes to their crew, notably ditching their tactician for 4-time Olympic Gold Medalist Ben Ainslie. OTUSA has also figured out how to foil their boat upwind faster than TNZ which makes this a tactical battle.
One race for all the marbles tomorrow 1pm PST on CBS sports network.
Today's races, especially the start of the first race, were amazing. Might be able to catch the replay on CBSSN later tonight. _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
One race for all the marbles tomorrow 1pm PST on NBC sports network.
race starts at 4:15 eastern. i will be cutting out of the office early to get home and watch live. i can't believe OTUSA has gotten back in to this. i agree they have had nothing to lose so they made a bunch of changes, but i'm suspicious.
One race for all the marbles tomorrow 1pm PST on NBC sports network.
race starts at 4:15 eastern. i will be cutting out of the office early to get home and watch live. i can't believe OTUSA has gotten back in to this. i agree they have had nothing to lose so they made a bunch of changes, but i'm suspicious.
Suspicious? The America's Cup is a box rule class so there aren't the one-design issues that got them in trouble on the smaller boats. Which I'm still confused about... If TNZ's Volvo Ocean Race boat cheated would their America's Cup be penalized? Unlikely... _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
i understand that. it's just that OTUSA was getting SPANKED early on... to the tune of 8-1 on the scoreboard at one point. now they have survived 7 (really 8 due to race 13 being abandoned close to the finish) straight elimination races. it seems more unlikely than the red sox being down 3-0 to the yankees in 2004.
maybe suspicious isn't the right word, but i just don't see how this has happened. it's not like the kiwis aren't trying to improve just as much as the americans are. maybe they've reached their potential earlier due to the practice they had in the LV cup that OTUSA didn't have? who knows.
i understand that. it's just that OTUSA was getting SPANKED early on... to the tune of 8-1 on the scoreboard at one point. now they have survived 7 (really 8 due to race 13 being abandoned close to the finish) straight elimination races. it seems more unlikely than the red sox being down 3-0 to the yankees in 2004.
maybe suspicious isn't the right word, but i just don't see how this has happened. it's not like the kiwis aren't trying to improve just as much as the americans are. maybe they've reached their potential earlier due to the practice they had in the LV cup that OTUSA didn't have? who knows.
Oracle made a major change in how they tack, virtually rolling tacks (not possible in cats but it is as close as you can get) which got them close to TNZ before they went on this winning streak. They also added surface area to their platform and along their gennaker pole which seems to have stabilized the twitchy nature of USA17.
TNZ's boat was affectionately named the tractor early on because of the larger volume of the hulls, this also seemed to provide stability early on in training and the LV cup for foiling. OTUSA has gone through two iterations of twitchy more slender hulls and I think the extra lifting surface and race time has allowed them to tame that beast. OTUSA has a thoroughbred while TNZ is on a ranch horse. Both get the job done but one is certainly faster than the other in a drag race.
I honestly think that TNZ peaked early, got comfortable with their design and has dismissed any calls to make changes because of how dominate they have been in early races. Yesterday however, you could see it in Dean Barker's face that OTUSA has really taken TNZ by surprise. _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
Problem with Frank Deford's commentary is he fails to put the sport into the context of bascially ANY other professional sport. We don't dismiss baseball, basketball, or football for their incredibly wealthy team owners or sponsor filled arenas with tombstoned sponsor names on the stadium entrance. It's an assertion only applied to this event with no context in modern sporting. If anything this format has weeded out the ability of the blue bloods to be on the boats or any kind of gentlemen yachting, the sailors onboard are professional athletes and the teams are professional sporting teams. In that context this event is not much different than any other professional sporting event that takes place in the bay on a daily basis, be it the A's, Giants, 49ers, Raiders, Sharks, or Raiders. All owned by one-percenters, all paying professional athletes to provide a show for the fans. _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
Upwind pace... That said TNZ should have hunted them on the first crossing, that lack of aggression sums up their Cup challenge. Relied on initial speed and didn't change tactics.
USA! _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
Not to be a jerk, but how much patriotic pride am I supposed to be swelling with for an "American" team with one American on it? Is this pretty common in international sailing contests? _________________ "I'm scared if I stop drinking all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."
OK, so I've seen this populist rant from a couple of other people who don't realize the America's Cup is an international professional sporting event not the olympics or some national team event.
This is a professional sport and like every professional sport in the world they hire the best professional athletes they can. Oracle Team USA is a US based team, that's all. For 162 years the boats or teams are named in relation to their origin, sometimes the yacht club hosting, so it could easily be Oracle Golden Gate Yacht Club...
Like other professional sports there are big corporate sponsors and mega rich owners but for some reason the populists like to disparage the America's Cup as somehow being different than every other professional sporting event in the world without looking at it in the context of professional sports. It's not the olympics, these are not national teams.
The cup is not named after the USA but named after the first boat to win it...
Furthermore, there are more Americans on the team than you have given credit to, 1 finished on the boat in the last race, another was benched after making some bad calls the resulted in early losses. There are many more that didn't make it to the final squad and probably a 100 in the office running calcs and working on the design that made this team move. Oracle Team USA has over 200 team members and their technical contributions probably meant more to winning than the guys on the boat. _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
Ok, so this isn't the Ryder Cup or World Cup of sailing, more like the Stanley Cup. Got it. _________________ "I'm scared if I stop drinking all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."
Australia's Hamilton Island Yacht Club, backed by Robert Oakley will be the Challenger of Record for the 35th America's Cup.
Hoping it stays in the Bay but the Defender and Challenger get to negotiate the race including location, boat, and most of the rules. _________________ If I agreed with you we would both be wrong.
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