Criminal or just punishable?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

I disagree with Perry about charging these guys being "over the top". What they did is very disrespectful. What do you think?

ohsix · Posted: Jan 15, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject:

Just punishable. The military needs to prohibit soldiers carrying cameras while on active duty. This isn't the first time video or images of U.S. soldiers disrespecting their enemies has surfaced and probably won't be the last. These young men (and women) do stupid things, just as all young people do. They see and cause death every day. They are numb to what most of us are fortunate to never see. They definitely have a different perception of what's horrible compared to those of us who will never get closer to war than what we see on our TV.

nmballa · Posted: Jan 15, 2012 4:15 pm Post subject:

Punishable. Not criminal. War is not some fregan picnic. stuff will happen.

Suprahunter · Soul Rider Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 486 City: Lowell

This whole story is just stupid. They just killed those Pieces of $hit. Who cares what they do to the body's. You get what you give they treat our dead a lot worse. They should wrap every KIA in a pigskin and then bury them.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

I imagine that there is already a protocol for desecrating enemy dead in the military's code of conduct, and whatever is in there should be considered. There is nothing special about this case that warrants deviation from what I imagine is already codified.

ohsix · Posted: Jan 16, 2012 7:51 am Post subject:

bmock50 · Outlaw Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Posts: 117 City: Dodge City

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

I do not know military law but there's a chance this violates it and could be criminal in a military court. I think that it is absolutely deplorable to desecrate someones body but understand how some 18 y/o boys in that situation could come to such an act. Unfortunately honor and duty are more important than my empathy and these guys need to be made the example.

Lop · Posted: Jan 16, 2012 3:36 pm Post subject:

Honestly I could give a sh@t less what they do to the dead bodies. These are the same group of people who torture our soldiers and the drag their dead, naked bodies through the streets to disgrace them.

finkle · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067

My buddy posted this on his facebook, I don't know if it's verbatim or even legit quote, but this is what it said.

Retired Colonel/Current Congressman Allen West on the Marines Incident:

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah. All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq? The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter. As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell."

seems straight with me.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

I doubt that's a real quote. Sounds like the usual made up bullsiht that the right likes to pass around to their friends in emails and on facebook to make themselves feel good.

If it is a real quote, I think that the person who said that is a poor model of an american elected official. I'm PRETTY sure that nearly every american that saw or even heard about the treatment of our dead by the enemy was horrified, angered, and very upset. Which is just more reason why we have to walk the walk if we want to go around talking about how much better our society is.

jason_ssr · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 6:57 am Post subject:

This stuff happens on every side in every war. You are taking teens and teaching them to feel a certain way about their enemy. This feeling is largely responsible for keeping them alive. It's not a switch that is just flipped on and off. The field of war is not some office setting where everyone has to handle conflict and emotion in a nonviolent way. We as civilians cannot expect the same behavior as in a civilian job. Is it stupid? Maybe. Is it stupid to film? No doubt.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Just so I understand, is it now your position, Jason SSR, that sometimes the circumstances around an individual's experience (soldiers in wartime, for instance) excuses or somehow makes their offenses less offensive?

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

pyrocasto · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 9:27 am Post subject:

I agree charging them is over reacting. Punish them as seen fit in the military and continue on. No you should not disrespect the bodies like that, but it wasnt grandma down the street. It was the people they just killed to protect themselves/us.

We are better than that, but locking them up with criminal charges is ridiculous. I agree with finkle's buddy, until you've been shot at in war shut up, and let the military punish them accordingly.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

pyrocasto · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject:

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

how is it a whole different ball game?

You're agreeing with the statement that unless you've been there and experienced what they have, then you can't pass a judgement on them.

How is that different than passing judgement on a kid who, say... grows up in a violent household in the projects with no parental guidance, who beats someone nearly to death?

You tell me how one group being soldiers means you can't have an opinion on something they've done, and the other group being civilians means you can?

I don't agree with the statement that only people who have been under fire can have an opinion on this. Perhaps that's not what you are saying, I don't know. I do agree with you that the popularity of this incident and the fact that there is video should not be cause from any deviation from what is laid out in the military's code of conduce. Which I know nothing about.

Tbonez · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 7:02 pm Post subject:

There are two Marines that I work with and both have described the act as deplorable and unbecoming of a Marine. Each Marine said they had been in combat and combat stress is no excuse for this type of behavior. They also stated that they were professional soldiers and wouldn't want to be associated with an organization or other soldiers that allowed and or approved these acts..

I think our rules of engagement are ridiculous but on the flip side I think our soldiers should treat the dead and captured better...Once the enemy is no longer a threat we have to ask ourselves if we as a society condone humiliation and degradation of the enemy regardless of what they have done to us.

pyrocasto · Posted: Jan 18, 2012 4:49 am Post subject:

cameraboy, people will judge at the drop of a hat with nearly zero info on a subject. That's drama, which America especially loves. Nothing will stop it.

But, why are they different ball games? What you mentioned is a normal crime committed at home requiring normal punishment.

This, is not only a military matter, which has their own rules and punishments, and even prisons, but it was also committed on foreign soil. The American public can cry out all they want ignorantly, but the military and military alone should be left in charge of dealing with this situation.

People can have opinions on this, but when they start acting on them as in trying to charge these guys as public criminals is where it's wrong.

jason_ssr · Posted: Jan 18, 2012 4:59 am Post subject:

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

yea, that's what I said.

you quoted me as if I said the opposite, I think.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Quoted you to support your response and position.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Oh, thank you then!

I don't seem to be able to make very clear statements a lot of the time. I often go on for paragraphs and later on one of you says in two sentences what it took me four paragraphs to fail to get out.

so, yea....

pyrocasto · Posted: Jan 18, 2012 5:17 pm Post subject:

I'm not learned gud in the art of werds either.