handle placement on W2W, with pictures VIDEO EDIT*

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

Hey guys, I had a pretty good session today, and am finally getting consistent with w2w. The question came up though while we were on the lake today of where the handle should be while hitting the wake and after launch. Here are a few pictures of myself just before and after launch.

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I have read and been told by a few people that the handle should be waist height, pulled into the waist on the hip. I am curious as to whether or not the handle in these pics are close enough to the hip?

Is my handle placement correct or can there be improvement?

LFADAM · Posted: May 07, 2010 4:03 pm Post subject:

First and foremost, by far the biggest thing you should do is fix your grip. You are using slalom grip (baseball style), make sure you ride with both palms down. Every trick you do in wakeboarding uses the palms down grip.

As for handle position, it is tied into body position. You are very crouched and a little hunched over on your cut and while in the air. For a regular wake jump, try taking a little taller of an approach with your hips up, chest up, and shoulders back. You can still bend your legs/knees a good bit but your upper body should be nice and tall. Use your body as a lever, leaning away from the boat, then when you pop and stand tall at the top of the wake, you will still have nice tall body position with your shoulders still back and your hips in front of you vs behind you (butt sticking out). Once you have that body position, the handle position comes into play. You want the handle low and near your hips with your arms slightly bent.

I also noticed in the sequence that you have a nice hard edge in frame 1 but it looks like you let off your edge a little in frame 2. You want to build your edge all the way in (progressive edge) so you are edging hardest at the top of the wake. If you take a shorter cut (only half as far outside the wake) itll force you to use more of a progressive edge.

Lastly, make sure your weight is nice and even on your board. Your weight distribution looks pretty good in the first frame, but in the second your shoulders are tilted a little back with more weight on your back foot. You want to always be a little back foot heavy in wakeboarding but you dont want to have your shoulders tilted back like that.

Hope that helps, sorry its a lot of info (some is irrelevant to your original question) but I think youll find it useful

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

The info is very useful, thanks for the help!

Enygma · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 356

is it just me or does the jump look a little low? seems lie you're using speed rather then technique and height to get across that wake. Don't forget to stand tall on that wake and get some height out of the jump. For what I see in pic 3 if you extended your legs you'd be pretty much back on the water.

The 2 problems I have with this is 1: it makes setting for and pulling off any tricks harder and a little more sketchy and 2: It just make the whole jump from beginning to end feel weird.

I had the same problem with my boat pre tower install, I had to use all speed to get across that wake but after the tower install it was a matter of getting about 4 feet off the wake and just edging through and standing tall to push me from W2W. judging from the pics though, you have a tower? wanna send some pics of the wake ? maybe you can fix it up with some weight and/or trim adjustment?

EDIT, just wanted to add in a little something. Notice in pic 3 while in the air your left hand automatically went back to the palm down position that was mentioned mid air? So your left hand is on the farthest right hand side of the handle...

I think you're using the "baseball" grip in order to try to lean harder on that rope and gain even more speed which just proves my theory a little more about you needing to work more on the proper technique of jumping.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a complete douche.

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

Hey no need to apologize Enygma, I am completely open to any suggestions. I wanna get better, and getting better comes from consistency. Thanks for the advice. I have about three days off and than I'm on the lake for the summer. I'll Try and get something with video posted on this thread, and pictures of my wake.

The quest for perfection continues!!!

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

I went out again today and was messing with the things that Enygma, and LFADAM, mentioned and my pop off the wake was a whole lot more comfortable and a whole lot higher. Most of the session I was using half of my normal cut just to get the feel for "standing tall" and I have question about that idea.

Do I stand tall in relation to the water, or the board position while cutting?

because a few times while using half my reg cut I cleared the wake nice and clean, and I didn't know what I did right... Unfortunately I didn't have access to a camera or video today but on Thursday if the weather is nice I will be video'ing and taking pics of the wake for sure.

What does anyone know about the whole "looking at the horizon" idea when going w2w? I read up on the technique and I am kind of confused with where in the horizon am I supposed to be looking? Is it Across the wake on the other side somewhere in the water or literally up in the sky?

SexyWS6Mama · Outlaw Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 150 City: Killeen

You look like your going "fast" using speed to get air. It's about control, not speed. In HS wake jump, you're handle should be closest to waist. Think about elbows touching side of your waist.

LFADAM · Posted: May 09, 2010 3:21 pm Post subject:

mobywake, in regards to standing tall, that refers to when you get to the top of the wake. You want to stand up straight to get your pop (vs keeping your knees bent or trying to bend down and jump like you would on land). But I also referred to standing taller for your cut, meaning your upper body should be straight with your shoulders back resisting the pull of the boat. But, your legs can and still should be bent while cutting, but when you get to the top of the wake you want to stand up as tall as you can (legs straight) to get your pop.

Hope thats clear, glad to hear you had some results.

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

SexyWS6Mama, I will deff put that into work, thanks!

LFADAM, yes your explanation does clear things up, thanks again.

Enygma · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 356

Just to make it a little easier to understand your position while carving at the wake. think of sitting in a chair with good posture. knees bent, back straight. When I started my W2W I decided to just test where I should stand tall and where I get the best results. I find the I usually start to push the board down right at the bottom of the wake, where the water starts to curl. Then by the top of the wake I've fully extended. Remember you're not trying to jump off the water when standing tall, it's more like pushing your feet through the water.

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

that is the exact analogy that went through my head when I read your second explanation Enygma.

While we are on the subject of w2w, what is the correct posture for Toeside w2w? I have been experimenting but can't seem to get the technique down to get w2w yet. I am noticing pop off the wake but getting more height and being able to travel to the other wake is quite difficult at the moment.

Enygma · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 356

hmm, describing toeside is a little hard to do. But this video should help you tons. Make sure to follow all the step, it will help build your muscle memory which will just make everything really easy. I can do toeside W2W but I usually have to drop my back hand on landing to retain my balance. Something I need to work out this summer. But I really want to focus on riding switch.

smokinheels10 · Outlaw Joined: 10 Apr 2010 Posts: 100

Great video. I may try that sometime this week to see if I can clean mine up.

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

very nice video for sure. I will be using this very soon.

thanksEnygma,

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

thanks guys here is a video of your teachings and my results!!!

also any more advice from what you can see is always welcomed

View My Video

Next is conquering TOESIDE W2W, and than switch HS/TS W2W

Enygma · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 356

your toeside carve looked good till about the last 3 feet then you flattened out...hold that edge through the wake and drop your back hand in the air to keep your balance. Also, my buddies tell me I usually get a couple feet higher off my toeside W2W, maybe because it's a more rigid position. Makes me realize I need to work on getting more pop. anyways I'm doing my first runs this season tomorrow. I'll try to get some vid and give you something to compare with.

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

I am still getting comfortable with getting air on toeside. I have been reading and watching videos on position and such, but still just gotta keep doing it to get comfy.

I am looking forward to seeing the videos Enygma, and thanks for the tips.

I will prob be out on the water today.. maybe get some more video/pics.

Enygma · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 356

no vid today, but it wouldn't have been good anyways. Might need a couple more sets to get my muscle back...I REALLY need to start working out through the winter. I crashed my first W2W, then threw a few grabs on my first set. Didn't want recording as i was the first time out this season. Then on my second set everything went awry. I landed on my face like 2 times, cant feel my neck...and got crazy sunburn everywhere. On the plus side, if every muscle hurts, that means the next trip will be a lot smoother going.

I do still have my heel side W2W down. Just a couple jumps where as soon as you leave the wake you just know, some went terribly wrong and this is gonna hurt.

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

No worries, just ice up and get back out there tomorrow. I laugh at myself when I have the days when nothing is going my way.... soo I just ride switch and work on the weak points of my riding.

And if you are sun burnt plus the face slaps... I feel for you. Yesterday I attempted my first 360 and messed up pretty bad. face planted myself, knocked the wind outta myself the second time, and the third I just let go and took the hit. OUCH! annnd I am dealing with a minor sun burn myself...

that winter work out routine is crazy important for getting back onto the water in the spring/summer. But within a week or so you should be good to go... that's how long it took me to get back to wakeboard condition.

More videos to come of myself and maybe some friends later this week since the sun is out finally and it isn't to cold. All the wimps wanna get in the water now that it is getting warm...

mucksoup · Outlaw Joined: 07 Jul 2009 Posts: 120 City: eugene

look like your not standing tall on the lip of the wake. Straght leg it and youll fly

mobywake · Criminal Joined: 06 Apr 2010 Posts: 52 City: Fort Worth

mucksoup, this past week I finally found the feeling of being "straight legged" off the wake and got huge pop... took myself into the flats a few times with no intention of going there. Toeside W2W seems to still be giving me trouble though... it's very frustrating. I can pull 1 Wake 180's on command now, which is a good progression.

Thanks for the help.. I will be posting video and pics for sure either Saturday night, or possibly Sunday afternoon. It's my dads bday tomorrow and we are having a lake party.

Enygma · Soul Rider Joined: 26 Jul 2009 Posts: 356

cant wait to see your progression. I, sadly, will not get out to the lake this weekend. May long weekend here is ALWAYS crap weather. raining and 100mph winds right now. I have no problems with rain but the wind would be making wakes above my waist right now. there's limits to what I'm willing to brave.

Next weekend should be nicer though. I REALLY hope to get some vid this time around.