Posted: Mar 14, 2010 6:34 am Post subject: Stern drive vs V drive
I'm thinking of replacing my I/O with a Tige RZ2. It's a sweet boat, but I'm not certain that a V drive is right for me. I'm certainly aware of the wake differences. The thing that I'm concerned about in all around family use is how much the V drive prop is a hinderance in pulling up to sandbars and beaches on the lower Colorado, Mead and Powell, as well as dropping it in to some of these drought striken ramps. I've never been in a V drive. Any feedback from those of you that use your V drive for all around family fun, on this subject?
DD and VD draft less than IOs. If you are concerned about beaching than anchor in deeper [3'] water. If you care for your boat you wont want to beach it anyway.
Drive the Tige and you will see the advantages of the VD. Remember you CAN'T surf with IO. Having an food chopper hanging off the back near your swimmers is just not safe . The last IO I owned was in 1986 once you get an inboard you will never go back.
The videos say it all. If you want a cruiser get a runabout if you want to pull skiers boarders and surf get a inboard. Test drive both and get pulled by both then post what you think.
The videos say it all. If you want a cruiser get a runabout if you want to pull skiers boarders and surf get a inboard. Test drive both and get pulled by both then post what you think.
Eh, I'm not sure if the videos do say it all.
First thing I noticed about those videos: They are made by V-Drive manufacturers, not exactly an unbiased opinion. Also, in the mastercraft video they are comparing a ~$80,000 mastercraft vs what looks like a ~$30,000 stern drive, same thing in the Malibu video (though the sterndrive looks slightly nicer in the malibu vid).
Second thing I noticed: There is a lot of omission in those videos, no downright lies, but definitely some stuff got left out. I've driven plenty of v-drives and I own a stern drive (for economical reasons, not because I wouldn't love a v-drive), and my biggest issue is the lack of steering control in reverse.
I spend about half my boat time wakeboarding and half going to islands/sandbars with my wife and friends. The extra control I have by being able to steer in reverse is extremely important to me now, and I can't imagine being without it (though I think most v-drive owners just get good enough at driving to compensate).
If you're not concerned about the huge price difference between stern drives and v-drives then I'd say go ahead and get the v-drive. If fuel economy and price of the boat are important, stern drive is still the only way to go.
Posted: Apr 10, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: Bottom line
Someone should go side by side an inboard vs a correctly weighted and trimmed I/o of equal size compare wakes also let's remember rider skills play the biggest role remember that early vid of Scott byerly behind a fishing boat?practicaly no wake doing every trick known to man with awesome hang time.So lesson is it's not the boat kiddo especialy when people are doing inverts in the flats!Enjoy whatever boat you got cause we are lucky to live such priveleged lives!!!!!!!
Yea I know this is a dedicated V-Drive board, but come on REal? comparisons?
I always chuckle when they claim how a I/O drive is in the way. Why do all V-Drives have a swim platform?? Yeah because they wouldn't be the safiest either if you had to swim up to the back of them with no platform.
When you have a platform like my I/O has, your feet are nowhere close to the prop when you climb aboard.
Better ride in a V-drive?? my ass. Get a V-drive out on a rough lake and no way to trim the prop then tell me it was better.
5 mph difference in top end speed?? Again what motor was in the I/O?? Most V8 I/o's are a good 8-15MPH better on top end.
I could go on about some other issues, but we all have our opinions.
I'm not cutting down a V=Drive in any way as I do like them and might own one someday, but those two videos are a bunch of bogus facts?
I think a 20-21' v-drive wakeboard boat plus a 25' sterndrive to cruise around in would be a great combination. The compromise between the two is a 23' v-drive or a 23' sterndrive.
The v-drive will not ride as well for cruising and the sterndrive will not have the nice wake. Both will have lots of seating but different layouts. The sterndrive will have a higher top end (but probably only by about 6mph as many top out at 50-51mph.) The v-drive will probably accelerate faster to 30 (unless the sterndrive has lots of power plus a Bravo 3 drive. Even then I'm not sure if it could match the v-drive holeshot).
I guess another compromise would be a Yamaha 242 but I hear the wake on those is even worse than sterndrives.
Posted: Apr 10, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: nuff said
this inboard vs sterndrive is so old .Everyone likes to think their boat is the best.Ride ,do your best be happy with that and stop playing this wrinkly old game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND REMEMBER WE SHOULDN'T BE FIGHTING WITH EACH OTHER WHEN WE ALL LOVE THE SAME SPORT IT MAKES US LOOK JUVENILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO COMRADERY DUDES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comparing an IO to a Inboard is like comparing a family car to a corvette. The inboards are built to do a specific function pull and create a wake . IOs are made to be general purpose boats they can do everything OK but they dont excel at anything. I cant think of anything a jet boat does good.
To use your analogy my post meant it would be a nice combination to have both a family car plus a sports car. If you cannot have both you have to decide on something in between and you will lose some features from the sports car and the family truckster.
A Yamaha 242 Limited Jet boat does do something great. I think it is the best boat in its size range to hang out, float, swim and soak up the sun. It has a great interior layout. The bow area can be configured in various cool configurations.
Can i say that i actually find it easier almost to reverse in a vdrive then a sterndrive. the predictable pull makes it simple to plan out your maneuver and then turn when you hit forward without having to crank the wheel back and forth.
And if you crank the rudder all the way or the other you can get the things to turn just a little.
Im not putting down i/os but once we went vdrive going back is like going from a bmw to a kia. _________________ They know what is what but they dono what is what they just strut.
Can i say that i actually find it easier almost to reverse in a vdrive then a sterndrive. the predictable pull makes it simple to plan out your maneuver and then turn when you hit forward without having to crank the wheel back and forth.
And if you crank the rudder all the way or the other you can get the things to turn just a little.
Im not putting down i/os but once we went vdrive going back is like going from a bmw to a kia.
Agreed - learning to maneuver in reverse did take some time, but once you understand how your boat swings (based on prop rotation), I find an inboard boat is much easier to handle.
I agree that the videos are biased and contain some half-truths, but maintenance is one area that the in-boards excel, at least in my opinion. I am able to do almost all of the service work on my SAN, while I could do very little on my Chaparral. In general I/O's have more complicated systems that require service/maint., like power trim motors, power steering pumps, lower unit oil, gimble bearings that require servicing, bellows, etc. I spent $300 each year, plus another $250 every other year for maint./winterizing service on my I/O, while I am able to do all of the service on my SAN for around $70/year. This includes oil change, v-drive oil change, tranny fluid change, new impeller, and engine anti-freeze. _________________
letsgo19 wrote:
Can someone tell that guy that in a chop water breaks at varying locations on hull da and that they didn't invent the boat!wow the arrogance of that!!!!!
kartman, that's some wild stuff huh? My boss is from the NW and he always talks about the double hulled aluminum boats with jet drives he's been on going up river. Many times they just kind of launch off large rocks and keep going.
As far as the whole I/O vs Inboard discussion, a lot of valid points have been made.
The issue about beaching and low water is something to be aware of. You will not be able to trim up the drive and run it up on the sand, that's a fact! You can pull up in pretty shallow water, though. As far as I know, the areas you are looking at are all sandy bottom shores, is that right? If so, you'll probably be able to get the boat in to shore enough for the front vee area to just touch a bit. You can decide how you would want to handle it from there. Some people leave the boat touching a bit and others do things like pushing it away and anchoring or even turning the stern towards shore. I've had my Supra up near a sandy shore before where the vee touched enough to keep it still and I still had 6-8" of clearance under the rudder. You don't run up on shore with an inboard like you can with an I/O. You just approach very slowly and someone gets out to walk the boat into whatever final position you want.
If you have low water and ramp issues, I'm not sure how an I/O is going to really help. Sure, you could trim up, but only so far before you lose control and thrust. You may only have a few inches difference between the I/O and inboard at that point. _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
I think it would be interesting to see how many boaters go from an I/O to V drive and how many go from a V-drive to an I/O or a jetboat. I would guess the the numbers would NOT be equal.
I also think it's good to get the opinion of people who have owned BOTH, not just one. people are always biased about what they own.
We had an 18.5 I/O which I added sacks, tower, racks, speakers, etc... In the end it was never a real wakeboard boat, it was just an older I/O with add on's and it was never built with the intention of wakeboarding. We have a Moomba XLV and it's a different world. I can personally say we will NEVER go back to an I/O, until I give up riding. _________________ 2010 Watson Hybrid
2012 Ronix One's
2012 Mastercraft X-30
We just went from in I/O to a V-Drive. We are still learning how to drive it. It definitely handles different (especially close quarters), but I think I will like it in the long run. Out in the open I love it! Around Docks and getting it on the trailer is going to take some more practice. But we only had her out 3 times and only put her on the trailer by ourselves 1 time, and that one time we did it the first try with a lot of wind, wasn't pretty but we didn't hurt anything. _________________ Troy
08 Centurion Avalanche C4 towed by 04 Excursion.
02 Ford F-150 Harley Davidson Edition, garage queen
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 439 City: Lake Blackshear
Posted: Apr 13, 2010 1:37 pm Post subject:
Just a thought, how about not beaching your boat period. It is basically like sanding the keel with 300 grit sand paper. With an inboard you will also be sucking sand into every intake on the bottom may that be ballast or the water pick up.
What will most people think who upgrade from a used sterndrive to a newer v-drive? Of course they will love it.
At the same time suppose someone owns an 18' sterndrive and it is worth $8,000 because it has been around for a while. Now they upgrade to a brand new 22' Cobalt sterndrive. If you ask them, "Which do you like better, your new Cobalt or your old Bayliner/Maxum/Stingray/Glastron?" Of course they like their new boat better. They better like it better since they just spent $80,000!
I post this to point out how there are various reasons people love the boats they upgrade to. It might be a different drive. It might be better at keeping wakeboarding speeds. It might be handling. It might be better seating. It might be a better wake. It might be because it plush and new and not beat-up and old.
Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Posts: 439 City: Lake Blackshear
Posted: Apr 13, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject:
I see your point but that is not the only reason people love boat X. I know many who have actually downgraded to a smaller, older inboard yet paid just as much as they did for their last boat new. In other words not really an upgrade. If you are going to be boarding/skiing there is no other boat that fits the job better. Because of this they actually liked the switch to the older less flashy inboard because it performed better for their needs.
I think it would be interesting to see how many boaters go from an I/O to V drive and how many go from a V-drive to an I/O or a jetboat. I would guess the the numbers would NOT be equal.
I also think it's good to get the opinion of people who have owned BOTH, not just one. people are always biased about what they own.
We had an 18.5 I/O which I added sacks, tower, racks, speakers, etc... In the end it was never a real wakeboard boat, it was just an older I/O with add on's and it was never built with the intention of wakeboarding. We have a Moomba XLV and it's a different world. I can personally say we will NEVER go back to an I/O, until I give up riding.
I'm one of the converts that went from an I/O to an inboard and I can honesty say that I will never go back to an I/O. It has nothing to do with price and everything to do with quality, driveability, ease of maint., cost of ownership, and the activities we do on the water (can't surf behind an I/O). _________________
letsgo19 wrote:
Can someone tell that guy that in a chop water breaks at varying locations on hull da and that they didn't invent the boat!wow the arrogance of that!!!!!
I think some of these recent posts make lots of sense. If someone moves from a comparably priced sterndrive to a dd or vdrive and loves it, clearly it is because it meets their needs. In the same way if someone has x amount of money to spend and uses that amount to get a dd or vdrive and says, "I'll never go back" it again means it meets their needs.
It meets my needs as a wakeboarder, but in general everything about the boats is just nicer, fit and finish, handling, acceleration, holeshot, they look better.... easier maintenance, higher retained value... the list goes on _________________ They know what is what but they dono what is what they just strut.
When I was a kid, we had a 20' oday sailboat... when I was in highschool we had a 19' American Skier but spent alot of time on a friends 70s era Ski Nautique.... When I was in college we got a 21' Crownline I/O...
With that said.... what I wouldnt do to ride of that 70's Nautique again!!!! I was landing 15' out into the flats consistently on my Jobe wakeboard (shaped like a surfboard with the sandal bindings).... Wake was TALL and rampy... no tower needed....
Yes, the Crownline is new... its shiny, the upostry is bright and in tackt, and it starts without hesitation..... But its also tall in the water, bulky, seating sucks (no better than a DD), and it handles like a boulder....
damn that Nautique awesome... Cant wait to get a v drive....
Posted: Apr 16, 2010 2:33 pm Post subject: the truth
Ever wonder why i/o's outnumber inboards 100-1?If they were such "better" boats that would be reversed.As far as needed for wakeboarding?I have friends who do tricks behind my Bayliner 205 that would amaze you.Stop perpetuating the myth.Inboard hulls being flat are designed to creat a flat wake for sking,hence the need for massive ballast.No replacement for displacement.It's not all about "trying" to look cool it"s about having fun.By the way all you haters don"t try throwing your rocks my way. i"m GONE.
IOs outsell inboards because they are general purpose boats and generally cost less. They do a good job at most things. Inboards are specially designed to accel at pulling. Are inboards better ? If you are pulling yes . If you are fishing, cruising, running high speed or boating in choppy water then maybe not .
Posted: Apr 16, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: the truth
letsgo19 wrote:
Ever wonder why i/o's outnumber inboards 100-1?If they were such "better" boats that would be reversed.As far as needed for wakeboarding?I have friends who do tricks behind my Bayliner 205 that would amaze you.Stop perpetuating the myth.Inboard hulls being flat are designed to creat a flat wake for sking,hence the need for massive ballast.No replacement for displacement.It's not all about "trying" to look cool it"s about having fun.By the way all you haters don"t try throwing your rocks my way. i"m GONE.
Great post
lmao.... I think its more like Inboards outnumber I/O's 100-1... anyone that lives near one of those huge bodies of water we call oceans knows that...
I dont see many "better" I/O's out on the open water..... which is exactly why your Bayliner is called a BAY-LINER...
And I own an I/O so Im not bashing... but they are NOT more popular than inboard boats... hell, I'm sure straight outboards are more popular than I/O's... you need to get off the lake once in a while.
Posted: Apr 16, 2010 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: the truth
letsgo19 wrote:
Ever wonder why i/o's outnumber inboards 100-1?If they were such "better" boats that would be reversed.As far as needed for wakeboarding?I have friends who do tricks behind my Bayliner 205 that would amaze you.Stop perpetuating the myth.Inboard hulls being flat are designed to creat a flat wake for sking,hence the need for massive ballast.No replacement for displacement.It's not all about "trying" to look cool it"s about having fun.By the way all you haters don"t try throwing your rocks my way. i"m GONE.
So using your logic, since Chevrolets outnumber Porsche/Mercedes/Rolls, Chevrolet makes a better automobile?? Some of the reasons I/Os outnumber inboards is the number of manufacturers. There are a handful of inboard builders, but hundreds of I/O builders. I don't think anyone here is slamming I/O's - they have their good points and bad points. just like inboards.
I must have missed the part about what "myth" we are trying to perpetuate. We are just giving some honest opinions, and as someone that has owned both an I/O and an inboard I think I can provide some helpful info. It can either be considered or ignored, it's no skin off my back. And the comment about inboard hulls is plain ignorant. Look at a Centurion Enzo hull, for example, and tell me that is a flat hull. _________________
letsgo19 wrote:
Can someone tell that guy that in a chop water breaks at varying locations on hull da and that they didn't invent the boat!wow the arrogance of that!!!!!
Posted: Apr 16, 2010 5:53 pm Post subject: Try this
Try this.Next timeyou are out on ANY body of water count how many I/o you see and how many inboards you see not counting ferries cruise ships tug boats crab boats etc..... Pleasure boats then repost.I could show you stats but go see for yourself.Hell even the real sports cars of the water,donzi ciggarrette, cats,formula,scarrab,outer limits etc..... Are I/o's
Posted: Apr 16, 2010 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Try this
letsgo19 wrote:
Try this.Next timeyou are out on ANY body of water count how many I/o you see and how many inboards you see not counting ferries cruise ships tug boats crab boats etc..... Pleasure boats then repost.I could show you stats but go see for yourself.Hell even the real sports cars of the water,donzi ciggarrette, cats,formula,scarrab,outer limits etc..... Are I/o's
This is really bordering on comical. Please explain where I said that inboards outnumbered I/O's, or that they are more popular. I'm typing this very slowly in hopes that you can follow along. Both boat styles have their good points and shortcomings. As an all-purpose boat an I/O works just fine, but as a towing vessel an inboard is hands-down the boat of choice. _________________
letsgo19 wrote:
Can someone tell that guy that in a chop water breaks at varying locations on hull da and that they didn't invent the boat!wow the arrogance of that!!!!!
Wasn't adressing your post CALMMy point exactly about the centurion some manufacturers. Are seeing the advantage of deeperhull still not v hull but s omeday I think all inboards will move towards deeper vees live v hulls oh angry one
Posted: Apr 16, 2010 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Red57
letsgo19 wrote:
Wasn't adressing your post CALMMy point exactly about the centurion some manufacturers. Are seeing the advantage of deeperhull still not v hull but s omeday I think all inboards will move towards deeper vees live v hulls oh angry one
Would love to respond but your inability to put together a coherent sentence makes it difficult. I did pick up on the "angry one" comment, but I can't see where anything I've written up to this point can be seen as angry.
To the original poster, my apologies for getting this thread off track. Best of luck in whatever you decide. _________________
letsgo19 wrote:
Can someone tell that guy that in a chop water breaks at varying locations on hull da and that they didn't invent the boat!wow the arrogance of that!!!!!
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