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Neognosis Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | cameraboy, dui's for example |
hmm... I think dui is worse, to be honest with you.
I feel the same way as you about animal cruelty, but that is very much an emotional and not rational response. _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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MojoPin Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 26 Jul 2003 Posts: 1874 City: Sweden
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: |
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All I can say is that I feel sorry for their families. _________________ WB.com will never be the same... You will never be forgotten Leggester.
http://www.myspace.com/mauiwake |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
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I got this on email the other day. There was more detail about where it was and what they were doing. I'll have to see if I still have it...or maybe the snopes link shows it (didn't look at that link)
It's a shame when things like this happen. I guess these guys never watched Johnny Dangerously.
Quote: | Crime doesn't pay, kid. |
Maybe if we didn't cut back on welfare, these guys wouldn't have needed to steal. We need more social programs to help poor guys like these.
tball wrote: | i heart karma. |
Isn't karma kind of like good luck and dogma kind of like bad luck? _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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goofyboy Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 4463 City: Houston
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 10:08 am Post subject: |
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cameraboy wrote: | Quote: | cameraboy, dui's for example |
hmm... I think dui is worse, to be honest with you.
I feel the same way as you about animal cruelty, but that is very much an emotional and not rational response. |
DUI does not cause anyone else harm. It could have caused harm, but then it is Manslaughter - at which point i don't care what happens to the person.
Theft causes direct harm to a person. As in Rampage's case - his pocket book is directly affected, causing finanical issues where there shouldn't be any. Someone dies trying to steel - screw'em. _________________ Work SUX! |
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MojoPin Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 26 Jul 2003 Posts: 1874 City: Sweden
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 10:10 am Post subject: |
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goofyboy wrote: | cameraboy wrote: | Quote: | cameraboy, dui's for example |
hmm... I think dui is worse, to be honest with you.
I feel the same way as you about animal cruelty, but that is very much an emotional and not rational response. |
DUI does not cause anyone else harm. It could have caused harm, but then it is Manslaughter - at which point i don't care what happens to the person.
Theft causes direct harm to a person. As in Rampage's case - his pocket book is directly affected, causing finanical issues where there shouldn't be any. Someone dies trying to steel - screw'em. |
Really? So it's ok to drive when you can hardly walk as long as you don't hit anyone? _________________ WB.com will never be the same... You will never be forgotten Leggester.
http://www.myspace.com/mauiwake |
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Neognosis Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | DUI does not cause anyone else harm. |
Purely by chance though.
Quote: | It could have caused harm, but then it is Manslaughter - at which point i don't care what happens to the person. |
see, that is interesting to me. Because the action is the EXACT same, just with a different result purely by chance. _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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goofyboy Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 4463 City: Houston
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 11:08 am Post subject: |
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or cause anyone else to wreck or impede their driving - sure.
What makes DUI bad is that there is a very good chance it COULD lead to injury or loss of another person or property. It is not smart and should be against the law. But - no harm, no foul and you shouldn't die if you are just pulled over and arrested.
otherwise - i'm not going to miss you if you die doing something as stupid as DUI. _________________ Work SUX! |
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finkle Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 11:27 am Post subject: |
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cameraboy, I have driven in the past when I was so tired but not under the influence that I should not have been behind the wheel. On the other hand, when I used to drink a lot, I had a rather high alcohol tolerance. I could have blown up to a .13 or so without feeling impaired or even buzzed (1.5 times the legal limit). The more dangerous person behind the wheel was the tired person, not the legally drunk person. IMO, a person's BAC doesn't not define whether they are drunk or not, but the gov't needs a standard to apply to everyone even if it doesn't evenly apply to everyone.
Someone who blows a .12 may exhibit zero signs of being impaired while another person can blow a .06 and be inebriated. Which person is going to jail everytime? The .12. The .06 is up to the cops' discretion, but an attorney will get that person off completely.
So my point is, DUI's are subjective. People do make mistakes. Maybe they feel fine but are actually over the limit. They get caught and they are more careful about how they act in the future.
Someone steals, they have made a conscious decision to purposely break the law.
They aren't even on the same level. _________________
Best Quote Ever wrote: | 'No regrets', that's my motto.....well, that and 'everybody wang chung tonight' |
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Neognosis Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 11:45 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | cameraboy, I have driven in the past when I was so tired but not under the influence that I should not have been behind the wheel. On the other hand, when I used to drink a lot, I had a rather high alcohol tolerance. I could have blown up to a .13 or so without feeling impaired or even buzzed (1.5 times the legal limit) |
In my mind, the only thing that separates you from someone who killed someone is nothing more than dumb luck.
Quote: | So my point is, DUI's are subjective. |
How about you just don't drive at all if you have had anything to drink. It's that simple to me. one drink for every hour. Period.
Quote: | when I used to drink a lot, I had a rather high alcohol tolerance. I could have blown up to a .13 or so without feeling impaired or even buzzed |
Quote: | Maybe they feel fine but are actually over the limit. |
I'm not saying that you are evil or a bad person. I'm also saying that neither is the person who drinks and drives and kills someone. You are both the same to me. You both took the same action. the exact same action. The result was different merely by chance.
Quote: | Someone steals, they have made a conscious decision to purposely break the law. |
Someone drinks and then drives, they have made a conscious decision to purposely break the law.
IMO, neither deserves death though.
Finkle, if you hit a phone pole and died one of those times that you were drunk driving, I would not have felt that you deserved it. I just don't think that I'm empowered to judge other people if I haven't walked in their shoes, and what good does it do anyway but make us a judgmental society, eh? _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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goofyboy Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 19 Jul 2004 Posts: 4463 City: Houston
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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if you chose to drink and drive and hit a phone pole and die - then you deserve it. you chose to participate in a known highly risky and stupid behavior. if you get hurt, you deserve that. Everything has a consequence - be it a good one or a bad one. _________________ Work SUX! |
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finkle Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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cameraboy, I am not advocating for drinking and driving. The fact that it happens all the time by thousands of people every day and night does not diminish that it is wrong.
Quote: | Someone drinks and then drives, they have made a conscious decision to purposely break the law |
I knew you would pick that out. That only applies if you know you are over the limit.
What I have been saying is that I feel that stealing/thievery is worse that getting a dui and that DUI's are more circumstantial than stealing.
Quote: | It's that simple to me. one drink for every hour. Period |
In an ideal world, that would be great. But people don't drink that way. Which is why I am buying a bac field tester. Not some cheap POS from sharper image, but the ones the cops use. _________________
Best Quote Ever wrote: | 'No regrets', that's my motto.....well, that and 'everybody wang chung tonight' |
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Neognosis Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I knew you would pick that out. That only applies if you know you are over the limit. |
I don't really buy that. Because if you drink at all, you should be very aware of how much you have drunk. The rule is one drink per one hour to metabolize. it's that simple...
Is stealing a pen from work or stealing a pack of gum worse than dwi? What's the dollar limit that makes thievery as bad as an action that potentially could kill a person or people?
Quote: | In an ideal world, that would be great. But people don't drink that way. |
I do. Because it's simple to do and ensures that you are safe. I think that if you feel you need to have a field BAC tester, you shouldn't be driving at all. How about you just don't drive on nights when you are going to have more than one drink an hour? Is that so difficult? _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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MojoPin Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 26 Jul 2003 Posts: 1874 City: Sweden
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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You drink and drive you should go to jail.
You steal you should go to jail.
Pretty easy. _________________ WB.com will never be the same... You will never be forgotten Leggester.
http://www.myspace.com/mauiwake |
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finkle Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I don't really buy that. Because if you drink at all, you should be very aware of how much you have drunk. |
Well you should buy that because siht happens and accidents happen. People die because of it. Alcohol doesn't need to be involved for accidents to happen or people to die. So if someone causes an accident at a .04, which is the equivalent to two beers, I'm not going to jump out and say it was directly because of their bac. Now if they blew a .14 I would say that it was likely a direct result of their bac.
Quote: | Is stealing a pen from work or stealing a pack of gum worse than dwi |
No and you can't compare apples and oranges.
Quote: | I think that if you feel you need to have a field BAC tester, you shouldn't be driving at all. How about you just don't drive on nights when you are going to have more than one drink an hour? Is that so difficult? |
Well that's your opinion. I personally think it's a wise idea and so does every other person I've talked to. I think most people on here would be surprised to find out how high their bac is when they feel fine to drive. Why not just be safe and know. Why do you think that it is a bad idea to have a device that tells me whether or not I've had too much to drink to drive?
According to that logic, I shouldn't use condoms or birth control either. I should just not have sex altogether to avoid a potential pregnancy. _________________
Best Quote Ever wrote: | 'No regrets', that's my motto.....well, that and 'everybody wang chung tonight' |
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Neognosis Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Well you should buy that because siht happens and accidents happen. |
If you were drinking and you had more than one drink per hour and you drove, it's hardly an "accident," IMO.
Quote: | I personally think it's a wise idea and so does every other person I've talked to. |
Are these people, by any chance, people that want to drink as much as legally possible and then drive? I think your great idea puts those of us on the road with you in jeopardy. But as long as you are technically legal.... idk, i don't like it. How about you just don't drive if you are going to drink anything? Are the lives of other people worth it to you, potentially?
Quote: | Why do you think that it is a bad idea to have a device that tells me whether or not I've had too much to drink to drive? |
I don't necessarily think it is a bad idea on it's own, I think it is a bad idea that you just can't avoid driving if you are going to drink.
Quote: | According to that logic, I shouldn't use condoms or birth control either. I should just not have sex altogether to avoid a potential pregnancy. |
That would be accurate, if having unprotected sex could potentially kill a person totally uninvolved in your fun. If a condom breaking resulted in a family walking outside your house, minding their business, bursting into flames and dying, I would say then you shouldn't have sex at all.
Is it THAT important to you to be able to drink and drive?
No judgements. For my own sake though, I just don't appreciate being on the road with people who are looking for ways to be able to drink and drive and technically be legal. how about you jsut don't do it? _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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finkle Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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[quote] I think your great idea puts those of us on the road with you in jeopardy. But as long as you are technically legal.... idk, i don't like it. How about you just don't drive if you are going to drink anything? Are the lives of other people worth it to you, potentially?[quote]
I think you think that I am some sort of person that likes to drive drunk. I am not. I don't like taking that risk. But I also KNOW that I am not a driving risk at .04 and so do lawmakers. Obviously you feel you are a risk if you drink more than one per hour, I do not.
Quote: | Is it THAT important to you to be able to drink and drive? |
Within the limit, yes. _________________
Best Quote Ever wrote: | 'No regrets', that's my motto.....well, that and 'everybody wang chung tonight' |
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_bruky Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 1201
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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RUSSIAN wrote: | The funny thing is, high voltage lines aren't copper... |
Aluminum, same difference. |
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_bruky Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 1201
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and can we just get to the part about abortions, gay marriage and religion?
This DUI stuff is really boring. |
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Craig-R Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 19 Dec 2008 Posts: 1676
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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finkle wrote: | cameraboy, dui's for example. Child support offenses. Driving offenses. Drug possession. |
i don't do drugs, but do you mean drug possession or drug dealing? and does it matter to you what kinds of drugs? |
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kyle f Addict
Joined: 14 Aug 2008 Posts: 835 City: Norris Lake
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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finkle wrote: |
Quote: | Is it THAT important to you to be able to drink and drive? |
Within the limit, yes. |
Here it is, I don't know many people that live within walkign distance of a bar. In Rural areas, there is no good public transportation Serivces and cabs are very expensive due to the distances you must travel.
We typical do our drinking on the lake in the evenings on the houseboat, or we have a DD when we go out. However, think about how many bars you go by and how many car you see parked there. Not all of them are being operated by DDs.
I wish the police would quietly set up a set of check points in every exit direction from a popular bar around here one night, and stop everyone to check their BAC. I would be interested in seeing how many leaving are over the limit.
Speaking of which, why don't they patrol the bar areas more because of this. Why do we have to wait until they have been out on the road for some time and have to see suspicious driving? Poor enforcemtn if you ask me.
Its like seeing a bank robbery in progress, then telling units to wait until they see suspicious behavior, when you have already seen where the get away car was parked.
Myself, if I am a DD, its two beers in the first hour and the NA beverages after that. Usually that is hitting the bar after work around 6, and leaving around 11. I am not a big fan od drunk driving at all. _________________ Always looking for others who ride on Norris Lake in TN
MB Sports B52 V23 with 2750lbs of Ballast Capable |
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_bruky Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 24 May 2009 Posts: 1201
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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They set up checkpoints all over our town's dinky little hotspot randomly throughout the week and every friday and saturday (and Sunday in the Hispanic neighborhood on the north side...thought I'd throw that in for CB). Per the local government-biased radio station, they catch a good 20-30 people every weekend (the majority on Sunday...).
Personally, I don't like driving with any alcohol and it's a good couple of hours after two beers. I don't want to risk somebody being at fault for hitting me and having the table turned because I came up .01 over the legal limit because I had a 7% beer instead of a 4%. |
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kyle f Addict
Joined: 14 Aug 2008 Posts: 835 City: Norris Lake
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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_bruky wrote: |
Personally, I don't like driving with any alcohol and it's a good couple of hours after two beers. I don't want to risk somebody being at fault for hitting me and having the table turned because I came up .01 over the legal limit because I had a 7% beer instead of a 4%. |
Same here, and when its my turn to drive, I feel responsible for those who are with me and those we will encounter on the way home. I hate when my mistakes hurt others.
If I make a bad decision and it hurts me, well I feel like I deserved it. _________________ Always looking for others who ride on Norris Lake in TN
MB Sports B52 V23 with 2750lbs of Ballast Capable |
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Neognosis Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Speaking of which, why don't they patrol the bar areas more because of this. Why do we have to wait until they have been out on the road for some time and have to see suspicious driving? |
I would imagine it is because bars inject a lot of revenue into the local economy. _________________ I walk 47 miles of barb wire, I got a cobra snake for a necktie, a brand new house up on the road side, and it's made out of rattlesnake hide |
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kyle f Addict
Joined: 14 Aug 2008 Posts: 835 City: Norris Lake
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Posted: Feb 02, 2010 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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cameraboy wrote: | Quote: | Speaking of which, why don't they patrol the bar areas more because of this. Why do we have to wait until they have been out on the road for some time and have to see suspicious driving? |
I would imagine it is because bars inject a lot of revenue into the local economy. |
Im sure they put their fair share in, but why has nobody questioned this. There should be some legal way to regulate those who drive to the bar. Like all bars much check keys at the door... must pass breatalizer to get key back... something. DUI is just too dangerous to be passive. Just look at the above opinions. _________________ Always looking for others who ride on Norris Lake in TN
MB Sports B52 V23 with 2750lbs of Ballast Capable |
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pet575 Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 3630 City: Kansas City, MO
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 8:17 am Post subject: |
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kyle f wrote: | cameraboy wrote: | Quote: | Speaking of which, why don't they patrol the bar areas more because of this. Why do we have to wait until they have been out on the road for some time and have to see suspicious driving? |
I would imagine it is because bars inject a lot of revenue into the local economy. |
Im sure they put their fair share in, but why has nobody questioned this. There should be some legal way to regulate those who drive to the bar. Like all bars much check keys at the door... must pass breatalizer to get key back... something. DUI is just too dangerous to be passive. Just look at the above opinions. |
The caselaw that has come out over the years holds bars legally responsible for serving those who are visibly drunk any more alcohol or for serving anyone known to be driving any further alcohol after they are visibly drunk. Trouble is the "drunk" standard is much lower than "visibly drunk" much of the time.
This seems to indicate that the courts are putting it on the bars to not serve drunks or allow people to get drunk if they are obviously driving themselves home. Here's the problem, though: how many of us are going to frequent a bar where we know they are going to take our keys from us the minute we order a drink? I can't think of many bars that could survive in the marketplace if they were competing with other bars that didn't do that.
So, through that lens, it would appear that a law requiring ALL bars to do that might address the problem. Trouble with such a law is the constitutional issues of limiting one's freedom, etc. by forcing them to give up their vehicle when only drinking one drink. _________________
Wakebrad wrote: | I honestly think it has to do with internet penetration... |
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