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3.7MM For a Virgin?
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8824
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:17 am    Post subject: 3.7MM For a Virgin? Reply with quote

22-Year-Old Sells Virginity Online -- and Feds Can't Do a Thing to Stop Her

Thursday , January 15, 2009
By Joseph Abrams

FC1
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A 22-year-old woman is selling her virginity online — offering her body to bidders nationwide in an auction that reportedly has netted a $3.7 million offer — and the law isn't doing a thing to stop her.

The FBI isn't interested. The U.S. attorney doesn't care. Everything is fine by local police, and she isn't breaking any laws.

That's because Natalie Dylan, a made-up name for a real 22-year-old California college grad, is marketing her maidenhead in Nevada, where prostitution is legal.

But some religious legal groups are objecting to the sexual sale, saying they are concerned that its influence may reach beyond the borders of the "Battle Born" bordello state.

"It does seem crazy," said Mathew Staver, director of the Liberty Center for Law and Policy. "The rest of the country has an interest in stopping that kind of activity from spreading from Nevada to their home state."

Staver said because the bidding was being conducted online, federal law could be applied to stop the auction from going through.

"Nevada has been out of step with the rest of the country for many years with regards to prostitution, and that's why I think it's important for federal prosecutors to look into this, so that Nevada does not dictate the morals and moral decency for the rest of the nation," Staver told FOXNews.com.

But federal authorities said there wasn't much they could do about the case, and deflected attention toward local statutes.

"Being that prostitution is legal in the area that she's listing from, and she's over 18 and it's consensual, I would defer it to local police authorities," said David Staretz, a spokesman for the FBI's Las Vegas field office.

The Postal Inspection Service, which monitors the Internet for some illegal transactions, is "currently unaware of any specific fed prohibition against this activity," said spokesman Al Weissman.

The office of the U.S. attorney in Nevada said that it has prosecuted over 200 cases in the last six years involving the solicitation of minors online, but it had never worked on a case like this involving adults.

The Moonlite Bunny Ranch, the brothel that is arranging and hosting the deal, sounded especially gung-ho about Dylan.

"Natalie is a virgin and would like to sell this priceless and rare commodity in a very exclusive and private setting," says the Bunny Ranch Web site.

While the commodity's rarity may be debatable, more than 10,000 bidders have come forth to put a price tag on Dylan's purity. And if the Bunny Ranch's owner is to be believed, someone has offered $3.7 million, a price far above rubies.

"One time only she will appear at the bunny ranch and give up her virginity to the highest bidder," says the brothel's Web site in a needlessly repetitive statement. Dylan says she is trying to finance graduate studies for her sister and herself.

Some legal experts say they're well within their rights to make the sale.

"It's a First Amendment issue. You can advertise goods or services that are illegal where they're advertised but legal where they're performed," said Marc Randazza, an attorney specializing in first amendment law. "What's she's advertising is as legal as toast with the crust cut off where she is."

Randazza said some prosecutors might be eager to jump on the case, but that this "commercial speech" is protected.

"If this is legal where it's being advertised" — in Nevada — "the government can't say you can't advertise it here," he told FOXNews.com.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh for f's sake.. nobody can dictate their morals to you.
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cameraboy wrote:
Oh for f's sake.. nobody can dictate their morals to you.



I agree...99% of the girls I know gave it up for the price of dinner and a movie..If we tackle this as a society whats next? Are we going to chase down every gold digger that gave it up so they could get married, drive a BMW and live off some old mans money?

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh for f's sake.. nobody can dictate their morals to you.


But people do this all the time. So apparently people can dictate their morals to others.

Or perhaps you meant 'Nobody should dictate their morals to you.'

But isn't that a normative statement? So aren't you thereby dictating your morals to others?

Hmm... a dilemma.
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadbeat bidder!

This was on the radio this morning, I think it was Q101 but I can't find stuff on their website. Natalie (my old avatar!) got something like $17,000 and recently some Romanian chick got like $12,000. They said Natalie bought some new boobs and got an apartment while the Romanian chick was hoping to fetch $70k for college but still lives with her parents.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hollywood wrote:
Deadbeat bidder!

This was on the radio this morning, Natalie (my old avatar!) got something like $17,000 and recently some Romanian chick got like $12,000.



That seems awful cheap...For some people that is pocket change. I thought for sure they would go in the six figures.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pics?
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ty540 wrote:
Quote:
Oh for f's sake.. nobody can dictate their morals to you.


But people do this all the time. So apparently people can dictate their morals to others.

Or perhaps you meant 'Nobody should dictate their morals to you.'

But isn't that a normative statement? So aren't you thereby dictating your morals to others?

Hmm... a dilemma.


A society without Morals is a free for all.

Today you say nobody should place the morals on prostitution... so if tomorrow someone offered to allow themselves to be murdered for a fee, woudl you think that is ok as well?

I mean if you are going to kill yourself because you lost your job and can't support your family, why not let someone else do it and put money in the bank first for your family to live off of?

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyle f, is murder legal in Neveda?
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyle f, I'm not sure what you're trying to say (or to whom you're saying it).
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tbonez wrote:
Hollywood wrote:
Deadbeat bidder!

This was on the radio this morning, Natalie (my old avatar!) got something like $17,000 and recently some Romanian chick got like $12,000.



That seems awful cheap...For some people that is pocket change. I thought for sure they would go in the six figures.


Seriously? If you gave me a room with 50 chicks in it and I got to pick 3, I still wouldn't pay you $12,000 for it.

Who is buying these? You could probably get a russian bride for that who will bang you five times a week and then clean your house.
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontrider, But if you are trying to do a satanic ritual or something, you need a verified virgin.

Don't you watch Buffy? Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8824, my bad! I didn't know she came with papers. Shocked
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontrider wrote:
8824, my bad! I didn't know she came with papers. Shocked


two separate doctors had verified.


You know my saying, if it flies, floats or Bubb Rubb, RENT IT!

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Girl Who Sold Her
Virginity Tells Story

Updated: Wednesday, 20 May 2009, 8:30 PM CDT
Published : Wednesday, 20 May 2009, 8:12 PM CDT

* By LILY FU

(MYFOX NATIONAL) - An 18-year-old Romanian girl who auctioned off her virginity for over $13,800 is now revealing the details of her tryst with a 45-year-old Italian businessman who had the winning bid.

The Daily Mail reports that the businessman from Bologna paid for Alina Percea to fly out to meet him. The two hit the town and saw the sights in Venice before spending a night at a five-star hotel.

Percea decided to put her virginity up for sale so she could pay for her education after losing her job at a restaurant. She went through two medical exams to prove her virginity.

Percea said she was attracted to him, so she enjoyed the experience. "He paid me a lot of compliments throughout the day, and he was very funny and charming. We got on very well, and I was pleased he'd won."

Percea said she had unprotected sex with the man, but took the morning-after pill the next day. "He told me he'd like to see me again, and I agreed."

Earlier this year, Natalie Dylan, a 22-year-old student from San Diego, Calif., auctioned off her virginity for $3.7 million .

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 8:11 am    Post subject: Re: 3.7MM For a Virgin? Reply with quote

8824 wrote:



"Nevada has been out of step with the rest of the country for many years with regards to prostitution, and that's why I think it's important for federal prosecutors to look into this, so that Nevada does not dictate the morals and moral decency for the rest of the nation," Staver told FOXNews.com.


Exactly. That's the job of fine institutions like Liberty University.
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kyle f wrote:
ty540 wrote:
Quote:
Oh for f's sake.. nobody can dictate their morals to you.


But people do this all the time. So apparently people can dictate their morals to others.

Or perhaps you meant 'Nobody should dictate their morals to you.'

But isn't that a normative statement? So aren't you thereby dictating your morals to others?

Hmm... a dilemma.


A society without Morals is a free for all.

Today you say nobody should place the morals on prostitution... so if tomorrow someone offered to allow themselves to be murdered for a fee, woudl you think that is ok as well?

I mean if you are going to kill yourself because you lost your job and can't support your family, why not let someone else do it and put money in the bank first for your family to live off of?


Tbonez wrote:
cameraboy wrote:
Oh for f's sake.. nobody can dictate their morals to you.



I agree...99% of the girls I know gave it up for the price of dinner and a movie..If we tackle this as a society whats next? Are we going to chase down every gold digger that gave it up so they could get married, drive a BMW and live off some old mans money?


I love it. Two slippery slope arguments on both ends of the spectrum.
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

8824 wrote:

Earlier this year, Natalie Dylan, a 22-year-old student from San Diego, Calif., auctioned off her virginity for $3.7 million .


So did she get paid the $3.7M ??? It sounds like that's what the auction is up to but nobody has been paid. She definitely got some upgrades. I really doubt anyone would pay that.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Nevada has been out of step with the rest of the country for many years with regards to prostitution, and that's why I think it's important for federal prosecutors to look into this, so that Nevada does not dictate the morals and moral decency for the rest of the nation," Staver told FOXNews.com.

But it's OK for every other state to dictate their morals and moral decency to Nevada???WTF????

Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy in this statement?

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ty540 wrote:
kyle f, I'm not sure what you're trying to say (or to whom you're saying it).


Its a simple statement based on Morals. The basis of most of our laws are based on some moral fiber. This moral fiber can be traced to the Bible since our founding fathrs who wronte the constitution were Christians.

With that being said, I am going after a moral decision that anyone can agree on here. Murder is wrong, christian, other religions, or athiests can agree on that one. However, ask yourself why and most generally you will have to end up on some moral justification no matter how you base your morals. Thus, someone has forced that moral upon you from a genral concious of society at large.

This being said as a counterpoint to cameraboy's comment that nobody should force their morals on you. Well, in that same token I am saying where do you draw the line of what morals should be forced, or observed in general, by everyone and what ones do we not?

If you should be alowed to prostitue yourself, what else should you be allowed to do that is generally seen as being morally wrong. Others that can be considered by some or all as Morally wrong but not by the participants could include suche things as Prostitution, Incest, Statutory Rape, Homosexuality, Pornography, Drug Use, Alcoholics, MMA Fighters, Animal Breeders, Cloning, Inveto(sp?) fertilization... and I could go on with more if I had time.

All these itesms are moral questions that society as a whole must answer and set laws upon. Many are bign debated today, but without laws and regulations on many of these, society would become a lawless free for all if there were No Morals forced upon many.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The basis of most of our laws are based on some moral fiber.


Of course. The reason is that we live in a liberal democracy, so (most of) our laws are based on value judgments concerning what is best for our country (rather than what is best for the ruler). We prohibit murder because we believe that murder is bad; we prohibit slavery because we believe that slavery is bad; etc.

Quote:
With that being said, I am going after a moral decision that anyone can agree on here. Murder is wrong, christian, other religions, or athiests can agree on that one. However, ask yourself why and most generally you will have to end up on some moral justification no matter how you base your morals. Thus, someone has forced that moral upon you from a genral concious of society at large.


I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. I never suggested that morality is subjective or relative. I don't understand what the last two sentences mean. Are you saying that the only way to explain our agreement about the morality of certain actions is that there is an objective standard? Is that what you mean by 'moral justification'?

Quote:
Well, in that same token I am saying where do you draw the line of what morals should be forced, or observed in general, by everyone and what ones do we not?


Ideally, we would draw the line correctly--we enforce those rules that it is good to enforce, and we do not enforce those that it is not good to enforce. This is what political philosophers try to do. The fact that it's difficult to draw the line doesn't mean that we shouldn't try, nor does it mean that some lines aren't better than others (or even that there isn't an objectively correct line).

In my original post, I was merely pointing out an interesting problem with the view that it is wrong to enforce one's own beliefs on others.
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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edrex wrote:
Pics?


Plus 1

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ty540 wrote:
Quote:
The basis of most of our laws are based on some moral fiber.


Of course. The reason is that we live in a liberal democracy, so (most of) our laws are based on value judgments concerning what is best for our country (rather than what is best for the ruler). We prohibit murder because we believe that murder is bad; we prohibit slavery because we believe that slavery is bad; etc.

Quote:
With that being said, I am going after a moral decision that anyone can agree on here. Murder is wrong, christian, other religions, or athiests can agree on that one. However, ask yourself why and most generally you will have to end up on some moral justification no matter how you base your morals. Thus, someone has forced that moral upon you from a genral concious of society at large.


I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. I never suggested that morality is subjective or relative. I don't understand what the last two sentences mean. Are you saying that the only way to explain our agreement about the morality of certain actions is that there is an objective standard? Is that what you mean by 'moral justification'?

Quote:
Well, in that same token I am saying where do you draw the line of what morals should be forced, or observed in general, by everyone and what ones do we not?


Ideally, we would draw the line correctly--we enforce those rules that it is good to enforce, and we do not enforce those that it is not good to enforce. This is what political philosophers try to do. The fact that it's difficult to draw the line doesn't mean that we shouldn't try, nor does it mean that some lines aren't better than others (or even that there isn't an objectively correct line).

In my original post, I was merely pointing out an interesting problem with the view that it is wrong to enforce one's own beliefs on others.


I am making commentary against the comment of "Others Should not force their morality onto you" I feel that it is a requirement to have laws to maintain a peaceful society, and that Laws are based off of morality.

I agree with you that society as a whole draws the line on what is morally just and what is not. Which leads into my main point that these morals must be pushed onto others in society to have law.

In any event, just think 150 years ago it was considered normal and Moral for a 13 year old girl to get married and produce children. Today with think it its aweful should a 13 year old girl even consider having sex.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This being said as a counterpoint to cameraboy's comment that nobody should force their morals on you. Well, in that same token I am saying where do you draw the line of what morals should be forced, or observed in general, by everyone and what ones do we not?


No, that's not what I mean. I mean that nobody CAN force their morals on you. I don't believe in using cocaine. If YOU use cocaine, and if they decriminalize cocaine use, it's not going to have ONE IOTA of change on my moral belief that I should not use cocaine.

the same way that nevada allowing prostitution is NOT going to make someone who lives in Ohio start patronizing prostitutes, unless they are an extremely weak minded and suggestible person who really didnt' have that moral to begin with.

As for our laws being based on the bible.... that's nonsense. THere's no law against premarital sex, disrespecting your parents, going to church, working on the sabbath, using god's name in vain, lying, etc. etc.

Our laws are based on the common good for the society.

Murder is wrong in our society becasue you can't have a stable society if people are allowed to kill one another. Also, most of us don't want to be killed either. The fact that it is in the bible is incidental.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cameraboy"]
Quote:


As for our laws being based on the bible.... that's nonsense. THere's no law against premarital sex, disrespecting your parents, going to church, working on the sabbath, using god's name in vain, lying, etc. etc.





I didn't say it was Biblical law... I said they were based of the Moral Teachings within.

One time an enforceable law was not to commit adultery. Infact I still believe it is illegal in many areas... just not enforced.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[qoute]I didn't say it was Biblical law... I said they were based of the Moral Teachings within. [/quote]

does the bible teach against lying? It's legal to tell a lie though.

Does the bible teach against premartial sex? Legal

does the bible teach rest on the sabbath? Legal to work on sunday and saturday

Does the bible teach respect for one's elders and parents? not illegal to tell your dad to go f himself

etc. etc.

The bible DOES allow slavery-- illegal
the bible does allow selling your daughter-- illegal
etc. etc.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Google fellas....I'll break up the normal blathering about moral blah blah blah in the sake of keeping this thread interesting.

I'd maybe buy here dinner and drinks post op. Pre op she better be handing out hj's in the taxi on the way there.

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PostPosted: May 21, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not worth it, not even close. I got $5 on it. Neutral
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PostPosted: May 22, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the girl?

IF I had millions, I'd... know what, not even. she's pretty and all, but why give women more power?

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PostPosted: May 22, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cameraboy wrote:
[qoute]I didn't say it was Biblical law... I said they were based of the Moral Teachings within.


does the bible teach against lying? It's legal to tell a lie though.

Does the bible teach against premartial sex? Legal

does the bible teach rest on the sabbath? Legal to work on sunday and saturday

Does the bible teach respect for one's elders and parents? not illegal to tell your dad to go f himself

etc. etc.

The bible DOES allow slavery-- illegal
the bible does allow selling your daughter-- illegal
etc. etc.[/quote]

Yes and most that you speak of has been changed during our grwoing into a god less more crime ridden society than before.

It still is illegal to tell an official lie (ie under oath or to a government investigator).... too hard to prove you lied to your best friend
Some societies actually did have laws against pre-marital sex, including many colonies here in the Americas.
Oh, and you yell go F yourself to your dad and let him call the cops... see how legal it is then. You will get a nice comfy ride to jail. It won't be written up to disrespecting your elders though, but you can be arrested for it none the same.

Slavery was originally legal in the US as well.

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PostPosted: May 22, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes and most that you speak of has been changed during our grwoing into a god less more crime ridden society than before.


that's more nonsense. We are safer this century from violent crime than we ever have been before.

[quote]Oh, and you yell go F yourself to your dad and let him call the cops... see how legal it is then. You will get a nice comfy ride to jail. It won't be written up to disrespecting your elders though, but you can be arrested for it none the same. [\quote]

Um, no. No cop is going to arrest you for mouthing off to your parents. However, if they arrive and you tell them that your father has been beating you up, they will arrest HIM, however. And beating your kids (and slaves, and your wife) is allowed in the bible.

Here:

http://social.jrank.org/pages/1249/Violent-Crime-Violent-Crimes-are-Down.html

violent crime is down this century from just the last one.

violent crime is tied directly to poverty, NOT to god and religion. And we already see that some of the most violent societies were also some of the most religious. Not necessarily due to a cause and effect relationship... no, I suspect that the same things that make religion a dominant factor in a society also makes violence likely.

I'm pretty tired of this insane idea that you can't have morality and lawfulness without religion.


anyhow, back to the situation at hand. If my neighbors are sluts and drug users and thieves, it does not mean that my morals are going to decay. In fact, if my ideas of right and wrong are strong enough, perhaps the opposite will happen, and they will look to me as an example.

This idea that if some people are allowed to do something that you find immoral, then the rest of the people's morals will decline seems illogical to me.

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kyle f
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PostPosted: May 22, 2009 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Violent crime is a classification of crime. You may feel safer today, but you are not. Fact is, a lot of crime goes un reported or un documented.

Povery does breed crime out of desperation and jealousy.

However, I totally disagree on a large scale that if people are allowed to do somethign found immoral by society in general that others morals will not decline. They cover it under the guise of tolerance. I hear a lot of that in society today... be tolerant of one another.

Plus, just to note verbal abuse can be classified under Domestic Vilence. In most states, if not all, once a Domestic violence call comes in, be it Husband Wife, Father Son, Mother and a cousin... what ever the case maybe. The law requires that at least one, if not both participants be removed from the home. Which means a trip to jail.

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Neognosis
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PostPosted: May 23, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Violent crime is a classification of crime. You may feel safer today, but you are not. Fact is, a lot of crime goes un reported or un documented.


Are you serious? The numbers don't bear your idea out, so therefore people must just not report crimes? Is that what you are saying?

Poverty breeds crime, for sure. Poverty breeds a lot of social ills...

Quote:
However, I totally disagree on a large scale that if people are allowed to do somethign found immoral by society in general that others morals will not decline. They cover it under the guise of tolerance. I hear a lot of that in society today... be tolerant of one another.


See that's interesting. I don't think that your morals have the power to change mine one iota. My morals are already very different from the morals of most of the members of this forum. In fact, I find some lack of tolerance for others morals and ideas to be, ironically, immoral.

Please to be explaining how your morals are threatened by mine. Is it that they are weak and you are very impressionable? Is it that you don't think you can instill your values in your children if those values are different from someone else's? What's the issue here?

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kyle f
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PostPosted: May 23, 2009 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, case in point one morning I woke up to find my Stainless Steel Grill missing from my patio. I was pissed, but I knew callign the police was just a waste of time and I needed to go to work. So, I didn;t bother to report it.

Was it crime? Yes.... was it Violent... no... is it in the statistics... no because it was un reported.

Here is a saying you must remember when reading any report. Figures don't lie, but liers can figure. You can do a study on just about anything and reguardless of the results, you can make them appear just about anyway you choose.

As for morals, I am not speaking of you and I, singular people of being directly influenced by one another. I am speaking of hwo society in general will affect your beliefs as you grow up and set your morals. Just as the hippie generation changed many of societies beliefs on many morality issues as the last 40 years have passed.

Will at this point much change mine, probably not as i am near 30 and pretty much the man I am going to be, but the effects of living in today's society as I was growing up are already there. Do I believe I would think differently about a lot of issues if I was born in the 40s and raised during the 50's/60's... yup I do. My mom had to fight with teachign me what was acceptable in our house hold versus what I was seeing at school as being acceptable, because what 5-12 year old isn;t very impressionable.

My issue is, and my point is that society dictates a majority of the morals we learn and live by. If we become tolerant of everything that we feel is immoral we would be without laws and regulations and would have an completely chaotic civilization. So, with this being said, other CAN dictate their morals to you and slowly de sensitize you to a lot of issues until you be come tolerant of it. If you feel that being tolerant of something just because someone else is doing it isn affecting your moral structure, then you probably dont have very strong morals to begin with and are probably highly impressionable yourself. However, its mainly about keepign the moral structure of our contry at a level that you would want your impressioably younger generation to grow up in.

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Neognosis
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PostPosted: May 23, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree.

My morals have always been independent of what society has or hasn't said is or isn't ok.
Quote:
However, its mainly about keepign the moral structure of our contry at a level that you would want your impressioably younger generation to grow up in


I happen to believe that a lot of our "morals" are not good though.

I also don't think that what other people do or believe has much of an effect on mybeliefs.

I also don't think you should stop learning and evolving at the young age of nearly 30. Myself, I'm over 30, but I'm always learning new things and refining my ideas and opinions.

If one groups moral ideas are so easily changeable, maybe they needed changing anyway.

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