Making an auto fill / empty ballast system.

[Wakeboarder3780]

I've read a couple tutorials on this and I'm confused about a few things at a high level. First off I feel like I always see someone talking about an aerator pump. I was under the impression aerator pumps put air in a container (i think fishermen use them in live wells to keep fish alive by pumping air bubbles into the water)

Second off for anyone trying to help me please try not to throw around terms that are brands and down mean anything at a high level. For instance simer pump would be bad, but a self priming pump I would understand.

Anyways below is what i thought a ballast system would look like and I feel like I never see this done, so I'm pretty confused how to hook one up myself. Can anyone explain the basics to me?

[vette74]

You can also use aerator pumps (fish tank pumps) to make a ballast system work. You can also use self priming pumps to make the system work and they both have their pros and cons.

Aerator- pro- cheap and can get another pump anywhere bass-pro,
academy, walmart ect.
- con - not self priming, need check valves

Self priming - pro - self priming, less complex system
- con - expensive, impellers can burn up if left on.

Do you want to use self priming pumps or aerator style pumps and we will go from there?

[WakeMikey]

Why use two pumps, two lines, fittings, and thru-hulls?????

Where to buy and info:
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/482333.html
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/582779.html

Aerator is a term to describe a pump that only pumps in one direction. It must be filled with water to work (not self priming). You would need two pumps minimum for even one sac.

Simer is a brand name of utility pump usually used for pumping water out of flooded basements. They are reversable (fill and drain with flip of switch) and self priming. I believe this is better for wakeboard ballast because your lines often get air in them and these pumps power right through anything you throw at them. They also hook right up to garden hose fittings.

PM me if you want more info from me, or pics of my system or see my gallery. It is very simple and bare-bones. I still have improvements to make, like adding fill/off/drain switch on dash and adding vent lines. Vent line is a line hooked to the top of the sac and then out the side of the boat. Once the sac is full, it will 'overflow' out the vent line. It is very easy to look away from a filling sac and before you know it, HOLY cow is it FULL!

Just use one Simer pump they are reversable. BW85 I believe is the model. Should be around $75 shipped. I have not had an impellor burn out after one year.

I use just one pump to fill 5 sacs. May add another. Takes about 5 mins a sac. The hose is run through the gunnels.

Drilled NO HOLES through the hull by using the raw water intake (existing hole through hull where motor gets its water. No tempature difference, it works perfectly. It is so easy to hook up to the raw water, and if it wasn't working for you you could detach it and rig another way very easily.

Good luck!!!

[vette74]

Wake Mikey and I have 2 different types of setups and both work. I drilled holes in my boat for intake and overflow and he did not. It is personal preference. If you want to go with aerator style pumps you have to install the pumps below the waterline of the boat without ballast or it will not work.

[Wakeboarder3780]

Alright so let me try to get this straight in my head. Lets say I do decide to get a simer pump. It's reversible. Lets say I also vent my sac so that it overflows out the edge of the boat and I know it's done.

If I do this setup, the picture looks exactly like the one I made (lets forget about what holes to use and whether or not to drill my own). I have another question then:

Once the sac is filled, using the simer pump. How does the water not leak back out the intake hole? And also, how do I get water to not fill up to water level in the sac? Does the impeller in the simer pump actually stop water from coming into the sac? Does the impeller also stop water from leaving the sac?

[vette74]

[Wakeboarder3780]

So.. dumb question. What happens if the line between the hole in the bottom of the boat and the pump (lets call it the pump feed line) gets a hole in it? You'll be taking on water with no way of stopping it? Do the through hull "nipples" for lack of better term have any "stoppers" or anything? Does this make sense?

[vette74]

You will start to take on water. On my boat I put a brass gate valve right after my intake (also Brass) so if that happens then I can shut it off and operate the boat as normal. I did not want to trust a plastic connection with something that important.

[Wakeboarder3780]

So what if I changed my model to an aerator style pump? Would those also stop the reverse flow of water? I find it so unbelievable that a little rubber wheel inside a pump could stop the flow of water, especially if it was able to move freely. I'm a little nervous about trying it.

That brass manual shutoff valve is a fantastic idea though. Great for time of emergency. I'm totally doing that in my implementation.

[Wakeboarder3780]

Also, wakemikey, you said you use one pump to fill 5 sacs. Do you manually change which sac the pump goes to by flipping valves? If you dont, how to all 5 fill equally, if one filled before the others, wouldn't it cause so much pressure it would blow?

[vette74]

Wakeboarder3780, You have to add a check valve. I bought them online for about 12 bux.

[Wakeboarder3780]

See but im confused. If I put a check valve on the water entry point on the simer pump setup, how do I reverse the flow to pump water out? I thought the whole point of a simer pump was that it was reversible and you didn't need to buy two of them.

[Wakeboarder3780]

Here is a picture of what I'm trying to say. If I put a check valve at the bottom of the boat hull it will prevent the bi-directional pump from pumping out, wont it?

[Wakeboarder3780]

Perhaps you just meant:
If I use an aerator pump and not the reversible pump (simer) THEN I would need a check valve. Is this correct?

[vette74]

[Wakeboarder3780]

So how do you know when the darn thing is empty if it empties below you?

[WakeMikey]

Sorry didn't check this thread fast enough!
Yes the impellor stops any water from coming into boat or out of the sacs. It works perfectly, the wheel doesn't spin without the motor being on. It is a fairly high power pump.
Yes we all have valves at the point the water enters the boat for safety.

Aerator pumps stop the water flow. This is why you use the check valves with aerators. Since it's a one-way system, it works. With Simers you don't do any of that. Sorry to sound so superior about it.

Since I have multiple sacs, each one has it's own valve. I open two, then watch until they are full, then open more valves and close the full ones. I admit it is a bit manual and should be easier with overflows. They still need valves though.

When you want to empty you open two valves, put it on reverse, and wait until you hear the suction noise. Like a straw in cup of icewater. Then open more, and close the emptys. They are sucked totally flat.

The reason for a check valve on your overflow is so only water can come out and no air can come in, so that when you fill you don't have any air bubbles, and when you empty they are sucked totally flat.

Also your overflow/vent (same thing with multiple names) must not be much higher than the highest point in your sac. Else it is too hard to fight gravity and it won't come out the hole till your sac is about to burst. It cannot be too low either or the syphon effect will drain your WHOLE SAC!

[vette74]

I run aerator pumps in mine I know they are empty when water stops comming out of the side