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Dragonlady8
Black Widow
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 9198
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 Posted: Jan 14, 2009 8:53 am Post subject: Court OKs sex between teachers, 18-year-olds |
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Your thoughts?
** Some people here are clearly not thinking this through.
| Quote: | Court OKs sex between teachers, 18-year-olds
Washington judges: Law doesn't bar consensual sex with these students
The Associated Press
updated 9:04 a.m. ET, Wed., Jan. 14, 2009
SEATTLE - Washington state law does not bar teachers from having consensual sex with 18-year-old students, an appeals court ruled Tuesday in dismissing a case against a former high school choir teacher.
The teacher, Matthew Hirschfelder, was charged with first-degree sexual misconduct with a minor for allegedly having sex with a Hoquiam High School senior in 2006. He challenged a judge's refusal to dismiss his case, arguing the student wasn't a minor because she was 18.
Hirschfelder, who was 33 at the time, also denies any sexual relationship occurred.
A three-judge panel of the Washington Court of Appeals unanimously agreed that the case should be dismissed. While the law was written vaguely, a review of legislative history shows that lawmakers only intended to criminalize contact between teachers and 16- or 17-year-old students — not those over 18, the court said.
"The name of the statute is 'sexual misconduct with a minor,'" said Hirschfelder's attorney, Rob Hill, stressing that the state recognizes that an 18-year-old is no longer a minor.
The state's code of professional conduct for teachers still prohibits any sexual advance toward or contact with pupils, whatever their age, and teachers can be fired for it. Sexual contact with students younger than 16 is considered child rape or molestation; the age of consent in Washington is 16.
Appeal considered
Hirschfelder has not been able to work as a teacher since late 2006, when he was placed on administrative leave pending an investigation by the school board. He was arrested and charged in spring 2007, after a former choir student told police she had a monthslong affair with him that began shortly before she graduated.
His case did not go to trial because it was stayed pending the appeals court ruling, Hill said. He has been tuning pianos to make ends meet.
**Grays Harbor County Prosecutor Stew Menefee did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press, but he told The Daily World newspaper of Aberdeen that he would consider appealing to the state Supreme Court.
Some state legislators are set on changing the law. On Monday, six state representatives introduced legislation that would make it a crime punishable by a mandatory minimum of five years in prison for a teacher to have sex with a student up to age 21, as long as the teacher is five years older than the student and at the same school. **
Rep. Larry Haler, R-Richland, the main sponsor of the bill, said he offered it at the request of the Richland School District, after a judge dropped a sexual misconduct charge against a Richland High School teacher because the teacher's alleged victim was 18.
"This is a real concern of mine, and with the court decision today, that just strengthens this bill," Haler said. "We need to protect our students as long as they're in our public schools, irrespective of age."
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intotheflats
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 5492
City: Port Clinton, Oh
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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As long as the student is of legal age, I don't think it should be against the law. Unethical...maybe, but criminal...definitely not.
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chavez
Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 9:09 am Post subject: |
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I have to agree with ITF here. Certainly unethical. Absolutely not criminal.
The punishment for that conduct should be termination of employment (after due process). Nothing more.
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ohsix
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 6837
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| So sex for grades will only be legal for seniors? That's not fair to the other high schoolers. |
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Dragonlady8
Black Widow
Joined: 27 Aug 2004
Posts: 9198
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 9:35 am Post subject: |
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If you read the **bold** it would include college students.
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[quote="Swass"] 8824, dude - I suck. You were right.[/quote]. |
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RampageWake
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 2002
City: Houston
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Some state legislators are set on changing the law |
No wonder our government never saw a financial storm brewing.
Oh well, if they can ban students f.ucking and truck nutz they will have made a great contribution to this country. 
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Medina
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 1269
City: Netherlands
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| intotheflats wrote: | | As long as the student is of legal age, I don't think it should be against the law. Unethical...maybe, but criminal...definitely not. |
Amen.
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Aubs
Motorboat Queen
Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 9167
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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There was a high school senior (that graduated when I was a fresh. in college) that slept with one of the teachers. Once rumors went around that the teacher had slept with him, she was "asked to resign" and a long-term sub took her spot until the end of the year. Teachers are getting younger and younger. You can start teaching in CT at a high school as early as 22! A 4 year difference isn't that much!
As stated before, unethical: yes. Against the law: no. |
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STPHNSN23
Guest
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 9A.44.093. Sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree
(1) A person is guilty of sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree when: (a) The person has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual intercourse with another person who is at least sixteen years old but less than eighteen years old and not married to the perpetrator, if the perpetrator is at least sixty months older than the victim, is in a significant relationship to the victim, and abuses a supervisory position within that relationship in order to engage in or cause another person under the age of eighteen to engage in sexual intercourse with the victim; (b) the person is a school employee who has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual intercourse with a registered student of the school who is at least sixteen years old and not married to the employee, if the employee is at least sixty months older than the student; or (c) the person is a foster parent who has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual intercourse with his or her foster child who is at least sixteen.
(2) Sexual misconduct with a minor in the first degree is a class C felony.
(3) For the purposes of this section, “school employee” means an employee of a common school defined in RCW 28A.150.020, or a grade kindergarten through twelve employee of a private school under chapter 28A.195 RCW, who is not enrolled as a student of the common school or private school. |
interesting. |
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Neognosis
Ladies Man
Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 17617
City: Webster
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I have to agree with ITF here. Certainly unethical. Absolutely not criminal.
The punishment for that conduct should be termination of employment (after due process). Nothing more. |
With the exception that in college, you should be allowed to have sex with whoever you want.
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Craig-R
Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 1676
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| Posted: Jan 14, 2009 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| cameraboy wrote: | | Quote: | I have to agree with ITF here. Certainly unethical. Absolutely not criminal.
The punishment for that conduct should be termination of employment (after due process). Nothing more. |
With the exception that in college, you should be allowed to have sex with whoever you want. |
it's still unethical if a student is having sex with a teacher to get an A. not that i wouldn't have had sex with some of my teachers in the past if given the chance  the english department at UM has some real foxes |
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intotheflats
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 5492
City: Port Clinton, Oh
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| Posted: Jan 15, 2009 7:36 am Post subject: |
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How would a student banging a teacher for a grade be any different from someone banging the boss for a promotion? I'm not saying that either is right as that is certainly not the case but I don't see much of a difference. If you have that low of an opinion of yourself to where you'd use your body to get better grades or a better job, go for it. The Gov't doesn't need to get involved unless they can somehow find a way to tax it
And I'd be willing to bet that most of the students, male or female, wouldn't be doing it for a grade. They'd be doing it to get laid. BUT, I'd bet that they would expect a little better grade than they earned after the dead was done.
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