changing riders - battery question

graphik · Addict Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 727 City: miller lake

Hey:
This weekend was the first real weekend that we've been able to ride, and when I started it up, it turned over really strong. We changed about 5 riders (10-20 mins each) and would turn off the engine. The battery now seems like it is getting weak. It's a slow turn when I start it. Took it out later in the evening, and made a point of not turning it off so the battery would recharge. Was out for about 1.5 hours. Next day it was still weak.

How long does it take the boat to charge the battery? The gage, says the battery is holding charge (gage reads 14).

any advice or suggestions..?

thanks

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

What is important about the voltage gauge is that it reads a higher voltage when your engine is running. It should read around 12 when your engine isn't running and around 14 when your engine is running. It it reads the same your probably aren't charging your battery and there may be a problem with your alternator. As long as each person's sets aren't super short, you shouldn't have a problem keeping your battery charged. Do you have a high wattage stereo or any other accessories?

Nick
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Uggs

graphik · Addict Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 727 City: miller lake

Otto !!!! I knew you'd come through buddy.
I kow that the gage reads 14 when running. Probably less when I'm trying to start it, but the power is noticably weaker. Last time I had it out, I didn't shut it off at all, and the battery didn't really seem to get any stronger. I've probably started it ...30, maybe 40 times the whole weekend. It'll turn over next time, but it's not a strong start anymore.

graphik · Addict Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 727 City: miller lake

oh... absolutely no other accessories on the boat. I bilge it now and again, but that's it. Oh, and I have used the blower as well.

b

Partyb · Posted: Jun 09, 2003 5:43 am Post subject:

All that starting really should not make the battery weaker. If your battery was charging correctly it would charge up during the riders session easily from the small amount of usage starting the engine. I do not know a lot about electrical problems on boats, but you may have a short or other problem somewhere that is draining the battery, the battery may not be charging correctly (alternator or regulator), or the battery may be old and unable to hold a charge anymore. IMO, there is definetely a problem though. Did you disconnect your battery over the winter?

graphik · Addict Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 727 City: miller lake

yeah I'm pretty sure the battery was even charged up over the winter. I had it winterized at the local marine place, and they came highly recommended. I'll call em and ask them maybe.

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

This is what I would do:

Look at your guage with the key turned before trying to start your boat, it should be around 12. Then, start your boat, don't worry about what the guage does when your starter is cranking, it will drop and/or move sporadically. After you engine is running, it should read around 14. Main thing your looking for is that the voltage is higher when the boat is running. At this point I would measure the voltage with a volt meter at the battery with the engine running and with the engine not running, just to check the boat guage. Making sure the voltage goes up by around 2-3 volts. Since I just bought one I would take out my ampmeter and see how many amps are going to the battery as well. If you don't have these things, you can make an educated decision based on your guage, assuming it is working correctly.

If the voltage is the same before you start the engine and after you start it while it is running, the problem is with your alternator. If the voltage increases, your alternator is probably ok and the fault lies with your battery. You could verify this by jumping your boat off your tow vehicle or swapping the battery to see if it cranks better. If it still doesn't crank right, your starter may be at fault. Another unlikely problem would be poor connection to your battery or cable problems, but from what you told me I'd bet a beer it's your battery. The battery may still last awhile with reduced performance. I used this battery that barely started my car for 6 months while I was a poor college student.

How old is your battery, they do go bad over time. When I told my Dad I was going to replace that battery, he said, "Whatever you get, don't get a Die Hard." Having already gotten a Die Hard 5 year battery I asked him why not, he said they didn't last long. I then asked him how long his Die Hard 5 year battery lasted, "5 years," was his reply. Then I asked him how many years did he expect a 5 year battery to last? At this point he realized his battery worked as intended.

Good Luck,
Nick
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Kitchen Measures

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

If you do determine the battery is at fault, here's a thread about the battery in my boat, an Exide, definitely recommended.

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=4657&highlight=
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IOLITE REVIEW

Leggester · Posted: Jun 09, 2003 6:50 am Post subject:

Not only "How old is the battery", but is there any fluid in it? Have you checked?

Terminals clean?

I'd suspect it's more a matter or either an old battery, or a bit of maintenance.

02settervlx · Criminal Joined: 28 Apr 2003 Posts: 54 City: IL

Your gauge tells you how many volts the alternator is putting out while the boat is running, and how many volts your battery has when the boat is not running. It sounds like your battery is bad. Change it, and you should be good.

graphik · Addict Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 727 City: miller lake

thanks guys. I was hoping it wasn't my battery as I just don't want to spend the money, but on the other hand a battery is pretty cheap compared to other repair costs. I bought the boat in September and then winterized it in late October. I don't know the history behind the battery, and will check it out. I should get one extra just in case, and leave it in the boat maybe. I'll also do as Otta suggested and check things out before I actually buy a battery. I don't think it's the starter as it chugs along and just takes a bit to actually spark up (like a slow turn, indicating a lower battery).

I'll let you guys know next week when I get back in the water.

Water here is 63 degreees... and all we have is shorty suits. But man was it ever a good time.
b

Hyperryd · Addict Joined: 03 May 2003 Posts: 604 City: Central Cali

If your battery is bad another really good battery to go with is an Optima sealed battery. Since boat batteries are in boxes, they tend to get a lot of corosion on the terminals. Optimas never get corrosion since they don't vent. They also are a very strong battery with more reserve power than most batts. Good luck.

needmoreair · Posted: Jun 09, 2003 9:54 am Post subject:

Guys - I learned I am going to take my batteries off the boat and trickle charge them this year.

After the first winter I had the boat my only battery died. So, I put in duals with a switch. I ask the owner of the Marina if I should put them on a trickle charger over the WInter - answer: "No, no reason to do that - my guys unhook them and they should be fine."

So - come Spring - first time on the boat - battery #1 will not start the friggin boat - ok on #2. I tell the genius mechanic about it. Next week I go out on the boat and check #1 - boat won't start Evil or Very Mad

I walk the guy out to the dock - he proceeds to load test - get's a good reading. Boat still won't start.

Lesson learned: try and start the boat! A load test will not always indicate if the battery has a bad cell in it - which it did and they replaced it.

Now - if they could just fix my trim gauge which has been screwed up for over a year Evil or Very Mad

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

If you have a Mercruiser I can tell you how to fix your trim guage. Also, I left my Exide battery hooked up all winter (In MI!!) and it started my boat no problem with no charging. Does your trim guage work at all? It is really easy to calibrate, but I can never get it to be as consistent as I want it to be.

Nick

bluefish86 · Posted: Jun 09, 2003 11:41 am Post subject:

graphik, that sounds exactly like a bad battery... thats probably all that it is.

gvb · Posted: Jun 10, 2003 12:52 am Post subject:

I'll second the Optima. Great batteries.

-gvb

graphik · Addict Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 727 City: miller lake

thanks man.
The battery was strong at first, and is now just weak. I'll do some texting and experimenting this weekend. I'd rather not be stuck out in the lake.

hey Hyperryd:
You were right man, the tige SLM COMP threw a really good wake man. I have 8 people in the boat, and one rider. It was great. Cold, but a tonne of fun. Can't wait til next weekend.
b

needmoreair · Posted: Jun 10, 2003 6:08 am Post subject:

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

Below is a picture of the sending unit. It is circled in red with a arrow point on it (the other circle item is the grease fitting, the picture is from my webpage that has instruction on how to lubricate everything on your boat). If you loosen the two screws that you can see, then you can rotate it maybe 60-90 degrees, this is how you set the adjustment. With your guages powered up, your trim guage should move when you rotate it. If you guage has power and doesn't move then there is something wrong with the sender or the guage.

If this happened, I would find the connector for the wires that come off the sender. Then, I would unconnect it and measure the resistance through the sender. It should change when the sender is rotated. If the resistance changed as the sender was rotated, then I'd assume the guage was faulty and after checking wires I'd replace it. Also, it would be nice to double check everything by connecting a sender you know worked.

Good Luck,
Nick

Also, on the other side of your sterndrive there is another sender. This one is used to limit how far up your drive will go using "trim". The difference is marked differently on different boats. On my boat I have a trailer, trim up, and a trim down button. The trim up button is connected through that sender so that the drive won't raise too high. The trailer button isn't connected through, so it can raise the drive all the way up. My friends boat has a trim up, trim down, trailer up, and trailer down buttom. Everything is the same except his trailer up buttom is like my trailer button.

It is very bad to run your engine with the drive up too high.

Nick
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SMOKE WEED EVERY DAY

needmoreair · Posted: Jun 10, 2003 7:00 am Post subject:

Thanks for the info - since I paid our marina to do the original repair ($275) I now am pretty much stuck waiting for them to fix it right for good.
When it comes to this kind of stuff I'd rather let someone that knows what they are doing - do it - with that said the mechanics at this marina are suspect. I am going to call over there right now and bitch - the new sending unit came in over a week ago and they still haven't taken another shot at this repair. BTW - How do you know how to do all this?

RanMan · Outlaw Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 186 City: Pittsburgh

Gentlemen we have a problem. The problem is that the engines are designed by PHD's, built by professionals, and serviced by pond scum. (I apologize to any competent mechanics out there. There may be one somewhere.) I have yet to find a mechanic that can order the right belt for my boat. Something I can do online in three minutes. My most recent experience was with a Mercruiser certified mouth breather that never saw a v-drive before my boat. Merc' will let anyone that happens to own a monkey wrench and a hammer get certified. I think the certification criteria is the ability to spell 'bote', or 'boat', whichever. We need to get on Mercurymarine.com and bug the crap out of them until they do something about their service tech certification process. To trust your 50k baby with someone who you wouldn't trust to fix your scooter is insane. Owners unite! Visit Mercurymarine.com and drop an email with your problems. If enough of us do it, we'll get results. Good luck and God help us all.
Cool

OttoNP · Addict Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 848 City: MI

I believe the problem is extended beyond Mercury, I feel most mechanics are incompetent, which is why I do everything myself.

Nick
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Glass bongs

RanMan · Outlaw Joined: 14 Apr 2003 Posts: 186 City: Pittsburgh

Here's an update! In Western PA go to Green Cove Marina. Talk to Danny or Dave. These guys are the exception. Knowledgable, efficient and can turn a wrench with the best.
OttoNP- I agree 100% Most boat mechanics are incompetent. My local shop mechanic's favorite tool is a Crescent wrench and hammer. The shop is a shambles with grease covered parts from vintage motors lying everywhere. He is listed as a Certified Merc' mechanic though. So beware. Look for the Premeir shops. They are listed on the Merc' website. Green Cove is Premier. One step in the door and you can tell.