Hyperlite and the state of Wakeboarding

MeanGreen · Newbie Joined: 30 Nov 2008 Posts: 5 City: Denton

Hello all.

I have been working on some wakeboard designs in my garage and I'd love to compete with Hyperlite in the near future and bring about some exciting changes to the sport.

From Wiki: "Hyperlite is frequently cited as the 'best' wakeboard manufacturer, but many wakeboarders feel that the company is overcommercialising the sport and is moving it away from its core values."

Would you agree with this statement and what would you say the "core values" are?

Also, what are your complaints about options available today? Whether it be wakeboard design or ropes, whatever. What would you like to see changed?

- Keven
Lake Lewisville, TX

criminally_minded · Posted: Nov 30, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject:

Too many gimicks and an obsession with bling. Take that as more of a view on the industry as a whole, not one particular company.

RC · Addict Joined: 10 Sep 2006 Posts: 771 City: Tuscaloosa

hco · Posted: Nov 30, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject:

Let's stop seeing 200% mark up from resalers, this stuff is absurd, if people want our sport to grow then stop being so greedy.

MeanGreen · Newbie Joined: 30 Nov 2008 Posts: 5 City: Denton

Kind of like this?

Shaped by Aaron
Fully Machined Nova Core
Carbon Torsion Zones
Abrupt Continuous Rocker
Two Stage Channel
9° Angled Fins
Molded Landing Feature
Monocoque Construction
Layered Glass
Limited Lifetime Warranty
Built in the USA

LakeIolaLuke · Posted: Nov 30, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject:

hco, would you rather get them factory direct and have no customer service or support? Even with the markup from retailers, many local shops are still going out of business in today's economy. And most retailer markups are closer to 50%, meaning they pay about 2/3 retail price for the product they sell.

hco · Posted: Nov 30, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject:

Eh, some places are definitely making 100%+, and alot of local shops are going out of business because they just can't compete with gigantic online stores who can offer almost the same support. Also, alot of local shops just aren't that great at doing their job, and it is especially tough to be just a wake/ski shop in areas that may not be that popular. IMO, I think the best thing to do is open a shop at a marina/with a marina that sells boats, is on the water, etc... alot of shops do not have things like these which definitely makes it harder to move product.

pet575 · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 8:15 am Post subject:

I wouldn't call some local shops' "customer service or support" all that worthwhile, either. One of my 3 local shops is full of guys that have no business selling boards-but if you're lucky you go there on the day the guy who DOES know something is there. In my experience, in our limited market, the guys who sell boards are "qualified" to do so because they ride a lot or are good riders. There expertise was pretty much limited to "I ride a Liquid Force so it is the best." That was the only brand that shop would carry, too.

That didn't help me much when I was a beginner. I first went in there looking for a board to upgrade to from what I was riding, and knowing nothing. I was thinking about buying the board that would get me the biggest air possible and nothing else. The guy I got hooked up with said "dude" and "bro" so much, and named so many tricks and used so much riding terminology, that my head was swimming and I had no idea what he was talking about by the time it was over. No discussion about curve, fins, stability, the need to learn proper edging and what boards would be better/worse for that, a comparison to what I was already riding, etc...nothing. I remember thinking he was stoned...not that there is anything WRONG with that-just not what I need while I'm trying to make a $400 investment.

So, I left and did as much research as I could online. Then, I went to that shop's competitor and bought a board without asking a single question-probably out of fear. Not the best way to get into the sport and grow it, IMHO. I think the board manufacturers should require some minimum training or provide their sales people with some charts/brochures/literature for sales guys to use in selling boards to beginners. Post those bad boys in the shop for their guys to point to while educating their new buyers. Experienced riders don't need that stuff as much, but if you're trying to grow the sport your newbies are the ones you have to win over.

LakeIolaLuke · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject:

pet575, most brand reps will do a clinic when their new lines come out every year so salespeople will have some basic knowledge of what they're selling. If you're ever in need of information about boards or gear, call a shop that has a good reputation, even if you're not going to buy from them. Most of the sales staff at our shop is more than happy to talk product with callers, just don't try to act a like a badass. When you're talking product, especially boards, the less you try and bring to the table, the more you can take away from it.

Oh, and don't use this gem: "I'm not a pro or anything." I know you're not a pro. If you were, I'd more than likely know you, and you'd more than likely not be calling me to find out info about boards.

intotheflats · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject:

hco, Where have you seen 100% markup on a wakeboard? My previous job was selling boat accessories including wakeboards and stuff and we were overpriced compared to most dealers and even we didn't have anything (other than clothing) that was 100% markup. Most wakeboards are in the 50%-75% markup range which really isn't that bad. Retailer buys board from company for $200 and sells it for $300. Thats a markup of 50% but the retailer is only profiting 33% on the sale. And you have to sell a lot of boards at 33% margin to keep afloat.

Most "boardshops" make their money from selling accessories like clothing, watches, stickers and even handles. That stuff you will see close to 100% markups and even higher but it's a much smaller dollar amount so they need volume to make money.

J-Ro · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject:

If you are a shop trying to make more than a 50pt margin on anything, they are overpriced.

intotheflats, Your profit margin is 50% in your example not 33% since you only outlayed $200 for the product.

justin h. · Outlaw Joined: 07 Nov 2003 Posts: 117 City: Katy

33% is only early in the season. By mid-July factories release their close-out list--at that point shops are lucky not to loose money on their boards. When it hits boarders best buy they are dead.

I don't know how some sites offer 70% off unless they only shop those lists. Personally, I think it is really sad and that manufacturers should forecast better and protect the value of their product.

This will be a tough year for a lot of local shops.

Disclaimer: I do not work for a shop.

Mean Grean, Good luck with the board project. I used to build skis on my apartment balcony in Lewisville.

SeaLyon · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject:

hco · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject:

I am pretty sure that overtons and those guys are making pretty close to 100% markup on some boards as well.

Blindside_137 · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject:

hco, probably.. thats the only boardshop within 100's of miles of me unfortunately. They don't even start having things on sale until they're nearly 2 years old. Colorful

I'm forced to go to online retailers. I would love to buy from a local shop though, I'd love to work at a local shop... but none exist Sad

hco · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 6:45 pm Post subject:

Yep, the only local shop here only has one 50% off sale once a year, but if you are nice and know him he may cut you a deal when the sale isn't going on. But the sale happens very late in the fall, especially for CT, so I don't think too much is moved. But w/e, it's their duty as a store owner to keep bringing guys in and whatnot.

LakeIolaLuke · Posted: Dec 01, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject:

MeanGreen, honestly, the "gimmicks" you bolded are not really gimmicks at all. The machined core greatly increases the manufacturer's cost of production, and has a great benefit on the ride of the board. The molded landing feature is also not a gimmick, the marek has a defined spine to break water on landings. The biggest gimmick on Wakeboards IMO is the pro's name assigned to it. It costs Hyperlite the same amount to Manufacture a motive as it does an Era or B-side. The high-end core boards do cost significantly more to produce, such as the sub-six, Murray and Marek, but the rest of the boards in their line (everything with a biolite core) is the same construction-wise. It wouldn't surprise me if the metal fins cost more than the board to manufacture.

intotheflats · Posted: Dec 02, 2008 8:12 am Post subject:

J-Ro, Your right, I was looking at it as a % of sales cause that is what im used to.

pet575

Ralph · Posted: Dec 02, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject:

SeaLyon · Posted: Dec 02, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject:

We all (dealers ) have a set price that we cannot advertise less than. That doesn't mean that it can't be sold cheaper. ASK.. you might get a little more knocked off.
On the other side, some dealers have to borrow money to get their stock, or if not their money is sitting there all summer long in the racks losing intrest. Not to mention rent, etc.
So there is a certain profit you have to make or why even stay open. Smile

MeanGreen · Newbie Joined: 30 Nov 2008 Posts: 5 City: Denton

WakeMikey · Addict Joined: 29 Mar 2008 Posts: 640 City: Fridley

A wakeboard should a simple design. Features like a spine or rolled edges are ver very important and functional. Yes a light board is important but Hyperlite IMO is taking a huge risk with the Sub6 lihgtweight line. I think they call it that because it costs like $599 or something crazy. :p

I wish I could be a product tester or have some way of voicing my opinions to the companies!

My personal opinions as an amateur rider of 12+years:

-Lack of art or real artists to design graphics for Hyp
-IMHO Liquid Force makes the best core that is lightweight but strong and their shapes have always just felt superior to me.
-Some company needs to make womens gear that is respectable. Blue and pink flowers is crap for barbie girls and that is not what wakeboarding is about. Wkae girls are hardcore and need long boardshorts and real graphics. PLEASE!

hco · Posted: Dec 03, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject:

No, they dont need long boardshorts, i like to see butts.

intotheflats · Posted: Dec 03, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject:

MeanGreen · Newbie Joined: 30 Nov 2008 Posts: 5 City: Denton

Anyone else? What would you really like to see changed?

Ropes that don't get tangled? Boots that are easier to get into that don't require lube all the damn time?

What is it?

DRAGON88 · Posted: Dec 05, 2008 12:36 am Post subject:

Blindside_137 · Posted: Dec 05, 2008 8:44 am Post subject:

My rope doesnt tangle either and I have never used binding lube in my lfe... after 5 years now.

hco · Posted: Dec 05, 2008 10:05 am Post subject:

My line tangles when we lazily put the rope away, so we don't do that. I dont NEED binding lube, but it sure does help.

J-Ro · Posted: Dec 05, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject:

LFADAM · Posted: Dec 05, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject:

MeanGreen, LF (and others) have made lube obsolete with bindings with neoprene/similar material liners. Slide them on like socks. I hate coated lines actually. They tangle just as much as my uncoated, dont coil as well, and the coating (especially at the loops) gets torn up super easily. I know how to coil so I dont usually have bad tangles with either one though.

MeanGreen · Newbie Joined: 30 Nov 2008 Posts: 5 City: Denton

I was just trying to spur some conversation on what improvements could be made.

I'm still stuck with bindings that need lube all the time, so just used that as an example.

Hoping to launch my brand by Summer 09 .... lots of work ahead!

LFADAM · Posted: Dec 06, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject:

MeanGreen, yeah I hear ya...I would like ballast pumps that actually work all the time (no airlock, seal problems, etc)

LakeIolaLuke · Posted: Dec 06, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject:

LFADAM, the right coated lines work amazingly well. Accurate A-line and X-line, IMO blow the rest of the competition out of the water. Straight Line has some new ones that work great too, The Benny G and Lyman Pro ropes. Older SL's, LF's and Prolines have never held up for me though