Where Are All The Deals?

[lcap]

With all the doom and gloom talk where are all the deals? Everyday there is more news about the RE market in the tank, foreclosures everywhere, high fuel prices, markets being down, etc. If that is true where do I find deals?

So far the only one I've come across is an 06 Centurian Enzo with 26 hours for $30k. Nothing else, NADA!

I'd think I could get a deal on an 02-04 911 996 Turbo or C4S, or 95-98 994 C4S or turbo, I'm not picky. Maybe a Sea Doo RXT 215hp wake or RXT-X or the Yamaha fast one (again I'm not picky) would be nice.


Anyone finding any deals out there? If so where do you look to go prospecting? I'm beginning to think all the doom and gloom is election year hype! And if anyone sees a swinging deal on my dream list, please let me know.

[Okie Boarder]

Have you looked at prices on Trucks and SUV's?

[goofyboy]

Okie - the prices aren't that much lower than in years past. I have always heard $10k off a new truck - $7k off new SUV. Now the SUV might be 10K off, but they are standing harder on interest rates.

[Okie Boarder]

goofyboy, they're doing a bit better than that here on new. Used is a whole other story though.

[DRAGON88]

lcap, go for the 993. Last of the air cooled 911= going to be a classic some day. (In my opinion.) That's the "new" Porsche I'd want.

[nmballa]

Just looked at an 01' 911 turbo, price tag of 59K. Not a real great bargain but...

[lcap]

DRAGON88,

I know, I know but it's a tough call! The air cooled usually have some oil leaks which is normal but its a fine line between normal and major engine overhaul. Also A LOT of money with an overhaul. Buying used makes me nervous--I always get the short stick.

The 993 is my favorite recent Porsche also. I found a '95 C4S, one owner, in perfect shape for a reasonable amount of money vs. an 02 C4S with two more years on the warranty for the same price.

Turbo's have entered the thought but are they more maintenance? More expensive to maintain? Reliable? I want a sports car I can drive everyday and we do have speed limits. Thoughts?

[oshensurfer]

lcap, New M3 is pretty bad ass. Not quite as sporty as the Porsche, but zippy.

[Dragonlady8]

The deals are the interest rates.

[DRAGON88]

lcap, the 996, turbos especially had issues with the rear main seal not seating correctly from the factory.


No one in my immediate family owns either a 996 or 993 so I can't really give any first hand information, except that the turbochargers are just one more system that can fail in any car. I don't know that they're really that much more to maintain though. All my dad's 911's are from the early 70's

[Blue22V]

LCAP - Do you want a great car not quite on the dream list? How about a street legal racer?

http://www.yellowgt3.com/

I've run against this car on the track, and it is really fast, extremely well kept and a bit of a bargain for a toy in it's class. Plus you could make a trip to Texas to pick it up and have a few beers on us!

[lcap]

Blue22V,

If only I had the money! What an awesome website for the car and the track! Is it time to upgrade? I only ask because selling toys----SUCKS! It doesn't matter if you no longer use them, it still sucks!

oshensurfer,

I love BMW's, all the way back to the 2002's. Fun, quick and one big rolling windshield. For some reason I've always loved the 911's. I love most cars just that 911 a little more.

DRAGON88,

If you could pick any year Porsche that is: Fun To Drive, Easy To Maintain, Can and should be driven daily if necessary; which one would it be?

[brew]

[DRAGON88]

lcap, The only ones that I think are really "easy to maintain" are the 356 or 912's both are fun little cars but they're not quick by any stretch of the imagination. (Especially the 912.)

But if it were me, I think I'd go for the 993 C4S if I were looking for a daily driver. I just love the noise of the aircooled boxer 6. Not to mention I think that the 993's are going to start appreciating in value, where as it seems that the 996 does not have such a loyal following...

[htownbdr]

LCAP - on the 996's, I would do a 2003 or later. They made a couple of tweaks that year that are important. The early ones did have issues with the RMS. However, generally speaking, if the problem didn't surface by 10k miles, it isn't going to have a problem. Also, once fixed, not really a problem. It is a cheap part. Problem is, a lot of labor to fix and usually when you drop the engine to fix i, they recommend to change the clutch while you are in there.

As far as the later 996's, they are pretty much bulletproof.

I would, without question, do the turbo. I had a 01 C2 and have the 03 TT and there is a HUGE difference. Also, for 3,000 more you can get an ECU and an intake and take it up to 495 rear wheel.

I would do a pre purchase inspection by a porsche dealer. Also, check out www.porscheforum.com. There is a lot of good info there.

Also, usually people buying porsches aren't going to be that affected by some gas prices. So, deals aren't that likely.

The 993's are great cars too. I just liked the style of the 996's better.

Lastly, just to ease your mind, get an extended warranty. For 2,500 I got a 50K mile warranty from the porsche dealership that covers it for almost anything other than wear or tear.

Feel free to pm me with any questions.

[htownbdr]

Also, no offense to Blue22v, I would NEVER buy a car that has been tracked consistently. When purchasing, make sure to ask that.

Blue22v - Has that car been to Texas World Speedway? I think I have seen it there.

[jt09]

[DRAGON88]

jt09, gas prices aren't the only things hurtin' right now.

[Corporate]

996's can be had for cheap many Porschephiles consider them a failure for both quality and design. If you are serious about a porsche I would stick with a 993 or go straight to the 997, can't really go wrong with either. 993 turbos can be a bit finicky from an emissions perspective (speaking for CA here) but are otherwise fairly bullet proof and not considered any more difficult to maintain. It is true that it is one more part that can fail but the car is quickly becoming a classic and prices have seemed to bottom on them. If you find one with low miles in good shape don't hesitate.

[Blue22V]

Htown - I do believe he has run TWS several times. The owner is an instructor/Red run group with Driver's edge.

You are right about some cars which have been tracked consistently being a bit "beat up", but this car is immaculate. The GT3 Porsche's are built from the factory to be run at a track, and not a real road car.

[lcap]

I always thought non necessities were the first to go when times get tough. A car that's rarely driven, a boat with 20 hours or a jet ski with 10 hours would be tops on the get rid of list.

I'm running some Craigslist search engine to look all over the US for a car. I'm leaning toward a 95-98 C4S or Turbo in Carrera White with baseball glove leather interior.

From what I see, people aren't hurting too bad! Just the typical "baby forces sale, divorce forces sale" ads. Great deals on Trucks and SUV's though....the Cayenne is starting to look like a good substitute for a Suburban. Speed yellow with an off centered surf stripe down the middle and 2" white walls--that'd be a heck of a beach car.

[brew]

[chavez]

The Cayenne alone makes me want to throw up in my mouth.

An abomination it is.

[lcap]

Dang you guys are harsh! What's wrong with a beach SUV? I can take the boards, dogs, kids in style and very quickly! I admit the speed yellow is fairly bright but yellow is a good summer color, no?


.....you'll love the SUV when they come out with the 5 door station wagon!

[brew]

I don't mind the Cayenne. It's the color, racing stripe, white-wall combination that's making me a little sick to my stomach.

[chavez]

lcap, I prefer the 5 door station wagon approach. Avant FTW, remember?

[lcap]

brew,

It's not a racing stripe--its an off centered surf stripe!

chavez,

I still like the VW bus--with a little work and a little paint from MAACO, I think I could disguise the Cayenne for a beach mobile.

Avant or Avanti? Nothing like a Loewy designed Studebaker Champion convertible. Collectors haven't noticed this beautiful car---yet but if you can find one, ahhhh what a beautiful beach car it is! Probably only out done by a 59 Square Bird Convertible in Colonel White with Turquoise interior---big ole land yacht!!!

[jt09]

[htownbdr]

^^^^Agreed

Corporate - Just looked up a 993 and 996 Turbo. Both were right at 70K (first one that popped up on Ebay). If that is "cheap", good on ya.

[lcap]

I didn't like the Cayenne's much but they have grown on me.

I don't understand the "Porsche" mentality!!!!!!!!! I'm looking at an 02 C4S with 36k miles tonight--if it works out, I would be the 6th owner! 1st owner only had it 5 months and put 1,600 miles on it.

When I talked to the local dealer they said its common for them to have customers who trade every 6 months! One guy who trades twice a month at the local "sports car shop."

I don't get the neuvo riche b.s. of "because they can!" These are B E A utiful sports cars! Discarding them like leftover McDonalds hamburgers is just wrong IMO. Obviously not car guys and they won't be riche for long when they go through $60k of depreciation every few years. But I benefit, I get a great used car for less than half the price of new.

[Corporate]

htownbdr, despite the fact that Dr. Corporate (mrs.) and I have both had very good years "cheap" is probably not the best word. Shall we substitute "relatively inexpensive" instead? I am speaking in the context of Porsche's only and the 996 has suffered substantial depreciation and discontent amongst the most ardent of Porsche fans. That said they still perform very well and are a blast to drive.

Were it me I'd take that $70k and get the 993 turbo the air cooled boxer is a legend and the "real" turbos will appreciate in the coming years.

[htownbdr]

I agree on the 993's and their following. If you are looking for a pure track car, 993 is probably the way to go. But, I have spent a decent amount of time in a 993 turbo and a lot of time in a 996 turbo. And, for something that is going to be spent more off the track than on the track, a 996 may be the better way to go. It is a little more comfortable, a little more user friendly for driving (the 993 clutch hits like a freight train) and has a lot more modern interior.

I also agree that the 993's will start to appreciate and have, at the very least, stopped depreciating. That being said, the 996's haven't reached the bottom yet due to the volume that were produced. But, they are probably getting close.

Lcap - If you are looking at the 02, seriously consider a few extra dollers and find an 03 instead.

[lcap]

htownbdr

Ah oh, I put a deposit on an 02 C4S last night. 36k on the odometer, warranty to 100k and every a la carte option possible from Porsche. The biggest thing for me, outside the perfect condition of the car was the owner. He is a mechanical engineer who works for automobile design firms. According to him he was the lead designer for the interior of the Lotus Elise and the dash of the Ferrari F360. He claims he's selling it to buy a new 07 F360. Don't know if the guy was b.s.'ing me or how to find out if his stories are true but everything about the guy was absolutely meticulous. Doubt a fly could survive in his house; not a crumb anywhere.

From what I can tell, it is a good deal. Pre Purchase Inspection at 35k miles. All records, clean car fax, no drips, no signs of re-paint, all gaps are perfect between panels---BUT I'd be the 6th owner. It was purchased and traded back to the same Porsche dealership for the first 5 owners. That many owners makes nervous.

Thoughts? I'm suppose to pick it up this weekend so I'd like as much feedback as possible. I'm way too trusting and naive.

[htownbdr]

Not that big of a deal on the year difference. You would just get a little extra hp and a couple minor tweaks.

It looks like you have covered everything. Carfax, imo, is worthless. But as long as a Porsche dealer did a purchase inspection and everything was clear, it has no signs of being wrecked, wasn't smoked in, tracked, has no leaks, you should be good to go. The many other owners would bother me so much. It would raise an eyebrow. But, with the above ok, I would be ok. Also, with the warranty, I really wouldn't worry.

You might want to double check the clutch and pads and see when the last major service was done. Clutches should last to 60K. But, pads are probably getting close. Could maybe get those things thrown in the deal. Also check tires. The rears go out VERY quickly and aren't cheap.

They are great cars and I think you will be pumped. Good luck sleeping the night before you pick it up. Do you have any pics?

[lcap]

htownbdr

This was my checklist, I had to print it out, otherwise I get too excited to think. Is there anything else to check? The front tires are worn on the inside--had a four wheel alignment 6 months ago and it didn't pull in one direction or another.

Sorry for the questions, I don't usually buy anything used because I don't have a clue and have always ended up with short straw when I've tried.

Driving checks:

Test the brakes gently first!

Does it accelerate smoothly/crisply?

Any unusual noises or vibrations?

Any noises/whining from the transmission?

Do the gears change without crunching or baulking?

The clutch, does it operate smoothly pulling away?

Get in a higher gear and accelerate, does the clutch slip(engine revs increase but speed does not).

Go gently up through all the gears, smooth?

Go gently down through all the gears, smooth?

Are the instruments looking normal?

Is there any smoke upon acceleration?

Is the odometer working?


Brakes.


Brake gently from 50mph (when safe)

Any vibration?

Any pulling to one side?

Brake hard. (check its safe and warn your passenger).

Any vibration.

Any pulling?

NOTE: ABS brakes have a warning light, make sure this extinguishes within the first few 100 meters. If you use brakes very hard the ABS should cut in and you will feel a definite vibration as you stop.


Handling and steering.

On a flat/straight piece of road (where it’s safe), loosen your grip on the wheel, the car should not pull across the road on its own, it should track straight, or gently in the direction of the road camber (left).

Does it feel tight and secure at speed?

Does it respond to the steering okay?

Are all the gauges now reading correctly? (note oil level).

Before you finish the drive;

Try reverse gear, ideally with a 3 point turn. Problems with the transmission or clutch problems may show up.

Leave car at idle.

NOTE: engines that smoke during acceleration, or continue to smoke at idle are likely to be worn. Walk away or get a professional opinion.

Listen for any rattling or knocking

Is the temperature stable?

Smell, does it smell hot, or oily?

Test the heater

Test the air conditioning (it should blow very cold within a few seconds)

Leave it idling and look under the hood.

See or hear anything unusual?

Turn the motor off.

Are there any fluid leaks?

Is the coolant header tank at the right level?

Remove the oil filler cap again. Creamy white sludge may indicate a serious problem. Burnt, carbonized oil indicates lack of maintenance

Check oil level and color of oil on the dipstick. (Dirty and thick bad, clean /clear good.)

Look underneath the car for any ‘new’ fluid leaks