landed my smoothest backroll but..

Ck · Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 33

i threw out the rope AFTER i landed.. not the crap i've been doing landing backrolls but throwing the rope way before, now i landed it smooth and then threw it out. GAHHHHHHHH. Im so close to having it compleatly. It's just that it feels as though my progression is always different each time.

Can anyone tell me the exact right way to progress to it?
Do you sooth into the turn and try not to pick up slack while becoming progressive to the wake.
Do you turn quick and let the rope almost slingshot you towards the wake?
Do you go out far?
Do you go out close and just set a quick progressive?

WHAT DO I DO.

brichter14 · Addict Joined: 27 Apr 2008 Posts: 705

I like to cut like a normal wake jump but lean back on my heels a little bit extra and when i am about to hit the wake i kind of lean over my toes...hit the wake flip and bam.

i think slacking the rope will just pull you off balance. dont do that. keep the rope tight by leaning back on your heels then hit the wake and cartwheel over.

flounderbout · Outlaw Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 224 City: London

Prizzy · Soul Rider Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Posts: 360 City: Milwaukee

Whats a double cut?

flounderbout · Outlaw Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 224 City: London

You cut halfway in to the wake, come off your edge and flatten off, then start your edge again. It helps make sure you are really edging all the way up the wake.

ky1e · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 2693

A doublecut? hahahahahahahahahah I would stop using "learnwake" as a trick tip site. If you let off your edge as you are about to hit the wake then try and edge again, the last thing you will be doing is a backroll, at least on purpose that is.

holdsworth · Posted: Jul 15, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject:

learnwake is a decent site, which is run by kyle schmidt. i don't normally like online instruction, but for a basic invert such as a backroll, it is a helpful tool.

when it comes to the "doublecut" it does help a little bit. i don't know how you throw backrolls ilubronix but this is a good method. the first cut is just the easy approach to the wake. the second cut is a harder one right at the bottom of the wake. this quick hard cut, along with a backwards-cartwheel motion, will make the backroll come around quite naturally. i'll use this hard cut when i am playing around and am only about 5 feet from the wake. just whips it around for me.

flounderbout · Outlaw Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 224 City: London

ky1e · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 2693

flounderbout, what holdsworth is saying makes sense ( edge a little harder when you get to the wake) as that is a progressive edge and is how you are supposed to edge. Flattening off your edge at ANY time is completely incorrect unless you are doing any tantrum based trick or some bigger spins into the flats where flattening off does help, but you would never edge, flatten off, and then edge.

Punkpenguin · Outlaw Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 224

The double edge make sense, Think about it, the point of a progressive edge is to slowly build up the strength of your edge

If you do a progressive edge from 15 feet out, you have to SLOWLY SLOWLY build your edge, but... if your cutting in, then flatten you, you maintain speed, but loose your tension, then 5 feet before the wake, you can really crank the edge, which will give you the same effect

ky1e · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 2693

It makes no sense, i'm sorry. Will someone please chime in here saying that edging flattening then edging again is absolutely retarded? There is a reason you don't see anyone doing it...
If it made sense, i'm sure people would give it a shot Rolling Eyes

ky1e · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 2693

shaggyboarder · Posted: Jul 16, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject:

Basically disregard anything flounderbout says. Ronix man knows what hes talkin about. start out 15 ft from the wake take a nice smooth approach progessively edge into the wake building up line tension. when you reach the wake edge all the way through the top of the wake and throw your hips back almost edging away from the boat. spot your landing then stick it hold on with two hands through out the entire trick.

Wakeboard K-Fed · Posted: Jul 16, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject:

flounderbout · Outlaw Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 224 City: London

ky1e · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 31 Mar 2008 Posts: 2693

flounderbout · Outlaw Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 224 City: London

holdsworth · Posted: Jul 16, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject:

is it amatuer hour in the topic?

you edge in, let off ONLY to keep that speed from the first edge rather than keep gaining speed as you move it, then hit the wake with a little more edge to help snap the rotation around.

you do NOT flatten out, you just let off the edge to keep from accelerating towards the wake.

the coaches on learnwake know what they're doing riding and also explaining the trick. it's not a hard concept to understand what they are telling you on the site. realize what's going on, stop bashing people with this experience since they are a fairly well-known individual in the world of wakeboarding, and move on.

ilubronix, not to sound like a jackass or anything, but can you even do backrolls? you're kinda starting to sound like an idiot and i just want to make sure you can put up.

toothpick · Posted: Jul 16, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject:

ilubronix, and everybody else, as a coach trained by Kyle, I'll chime in here.

The double cut is a method that helps people feel the proper timing of the load and release for a backroll. Some people really struggle with the timing of when to edge and then release for the backroll. Timing it so they release off of the top of the wake is tricky, not for everybody, but for some it is.

Kyle has hundreds of methods to teach people every little aspect of any wakeboard move. This particular one is about as close as you can get to forcing people to load the line at the proper time so that they have a tight line at the wake and release into the backroll off of the top of the wake.

It's intended solely to teach the timing if the wakeboarder is struggling with that one part of the backroll. It's a method to work on when the rider is trying one-wake backrolls. Once the rider has felt that timing a few times, they will be able to go to a real progressive edge and do a proper wake to wake backroll.

Make sense now?

Punkpenguin · Outlaw Joined: 01 Aug 2006 Posts: 224

Ck · Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 33

So as i see a mixed view on the right edge for a backroll let me say what i'm going to do this week to finally land it.

I shall edge out, wait a couple seconds, and make a progressive edge starting with a slow, smooth cut into the wake to build up the line and then end with a strong progressive cut that DOES NOT end before i hit the wake.

I mean i want to say thats what i've been doing but i know people could watch me and point out something wrong.

flounderbout · Outlaw Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 224 City: London

Mike McLin · Newbie Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 33 City: Clermont

It's Mike McLin, one of the guys behind LearnWake... I'm here to clear up a few things about the "double-cut." First off, in no way should you ever perform a double-cut to do a normal back roll. The double-cut is a teaching method that is a part of a progression of steps to learning how to do a back roll. After 15 years of coaching, Kyle has realized that you can tell someone to cut out 15 feet away from the wake, and tell them to slowly progressively edge in....and guess what...THEY DON'T DO IT! They think they are doing it, but they don't realize they aren't. With the double-cut method this gives the rider the feeling of how the last part of the edge should feel. It makes it almost impossible not to edge progressively the last 5 feet before the wake.

I repeat, the double-cut is a teaching method, not the way we teach to do back rolls.

The link below is the video that is in question. It is on one of our Library Sample pages. Scroll down halfway and you find the video thumbnail. Choose the quality you want to view and check it out for yourself (for free). I think it'll help if you see how it was used in context.

Free Back Roll Library Page

You'll find that almost all of our videos have unique ways of looking at tricks, or special tricks and techniques that seem off the wall, but actually work. We also pride ourselves in showing both the right AND wrong versions of tricks, and comparing them. It is far too easy to tell someone how to do a trick and call it a day (I know because we already did that when we made The Book DVD Series). It is MUCH better to go into detail and show wrong examples, because people can identify with the mistakes.

holdsworth · Posted: Jul 17, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject:

Mike McLin, thank you for clearing that up.

OuachitaWaker · Addict Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 577 City: Hot Springs

i saw the double cut backroll thing, guys the double cut went ment to make you only go 1 wake, you do this double cut so that you dont have enough speed to carry it to 2 wakes. They are having you get used to 1 wake before you go for a 2 wake, to help prevent injuries or something

OuachitaWaker · Addict Joined: 16 Sep 2006 Posts: 577 City: Hot Springs

oh wow i should have read this whole thing before i posted i didnt see that Mike McLin was right above me hah

Ck · Newbie Joined: 07 Jul 2008 Posts: 33

Got back from lake texoma and only attempted a few flips. Each time i landed with rope but let go. Really dumb but just something only practice shall solve. I improved my goofy riding and did some 180s and ollied over boyes ( however you spell it, aka. floating things!) Worked on my progressive and found better pop with greater time to land grabs.

I really feel like im doing better but at the same time as long as i'm not finishing out the backroll i feel as though i'm not improving, bleh. Just really want it.