Backroll Help - Sliding Out <<video>>

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

So after sparsely attempting backrolls for the past year I finally went all out and tried 20 or so the other day. I was pretty determined to land it but I kept sliding out every friggin' time! The first few attempts in the video I got after it pretty hard and over rotated and landed in the flats. The for the next few I backed off and cased the wake and/or underrotated. When I watch the vids in slo-mo it seems like I'm landing 1/4-1/2 way around to revert. What do I need to do different so I can land on edge and ride away from this effing trick?

I'm riding at 22mph 75' line (normally ride 23mph) supra 22ssv full gravity ballast + 400 lbs lead + 3 people in boat. Any advice is appreciated. I f*cked up my knee pretty bad on the last attempt cuz I was beat down (did like 13 or 14 in a row) hopefully it holds up so I can get back out soon and stomp this trick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9z8dSS7Ehbc

NorthwestRider · Posted: Jul 07, 2008 8:43 pm Post subject:

Your doing everything perfect, right up until the end. You need to spot your landing. Like look at the water and put your feet under you. If your slipping out keep the rope low when your coming around and it will slow you down a bit. But really just look at the water when your coming around and when you finally make it, it will feel as easy as a normal wake jump.

Wakebrad · Ladies Man Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 12257 City: Dallas

I've seen people do this before. It's crazy really. Throwing 10s of backrolls and they're all perfect except for the landing.

Agreed with spotting the landing. It looks like most of the time you are over-rotating it a bit. If you spot your landing and see the water coming around let the handle out a little. That will stop your rotation. Can you do flips on a trampoline or swimming pool? That will teach you how to spot your landing if you haven't. Try a cartwheel flip on a trampoline and look for the tramp early.

Also you are getting plenty of height. I wouldn't worry about going bigger. Just take a comfortable cut into the wake. If you spot your landing you will be able to bend your knees and stick those landings. You are landing perfectly over your board, you just don't seem to expect it so you don't anticipate for the landing.

You're | | (this) close to it. Get out there and stomp it!

bass69 · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 529

maybe try getting a little air? and that wil cause you to rotate slower

ridininmd · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 1231

I did the same thing when I was learning backrolls. I would either slip out over my heel edge or take them part way to revert and jam up the landing. I finally fixed it by letting go with my back hand just after my head passed 6 o' clock. Then just keep the handle low and on your lead hip and you should have them.

ohdoor · Soul Rider Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 281 City: OKC

The same exact thing happened to me when I was learning them. I just kept doing them over and over again until I finally got it right one time and landed it. There is actually a thread on here a few pages back titled "is this a real backroll" that I started right after landing my first one. Theres two videos one landing it the other is an attempt right before the landed one where I slipped out. Just keep trying them. You'll get it soon enough.

flounderbout · Outlaw Joined: 30 Sep 2006 Posts: 224 City: London

Man I can't believe you didn't land any of those!
You are getting loads of air, and the rotation is perfect. As these guys have said you just need to spot the landing earlier.
Try shortening the rope right up to 65, and then throw them just like those first ones you threw. You will land the first one you try - then take the rope out slowly back to 75.
You could slow it up a touch too. 20.5/21 is fine.

STANG KILLA SS · Posted: Jul 08, 2008 10:15 am Post subject:

im just doing single wake jumps, but i noticed on several of them when landing the board was perpidicular to the boat. i know your probly supposed to land on edge and carve away but it just seemed to sideways.?
disclaimer: i have no clue what im talking about Laughing

TnR6Rida · Posted: Jul 08, 2008 10:38 am Post subject:

I had the same problem. I don't know how I fixed it, so I can't really help you. But I just kept trying and trying and eventually started landing them. At first it was just like I would land 1 a day, then 2 or 3 a day, and they just kept getting more and more consistant with more practice, and now I have them locked down.

Just keep trying and you will eventually get the feel for it.

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

I feel like I'm seeing the landing pretty decent. I can do backflips on a tramp so I know how it feels to spot the landing and use your body to slow down the rotation and stick it. Youtube sucks, so you can't really slow down the vid, but in the middle attempts you can see my head looking straight at the landing and I even try to move the handle out towards the flats to slow down the rotation (says to do this in The Book).

I feel kind of out of control on the landing. I can see it coming, but I can't time it to absorb the landing w/ my knees and get the board directly underneath me. After watching more I see what you are saying about keeping the handle low. I'll try to keep it locked to that lead hip nice and low next time I get out there...I bet that is the problem.

BTW...any tips for protecting your nads??? Felt like I got kicked in the balls after a few of those impacts.

Thanks for all the help. Hopefully I will get out there Thursday and stomp this baby, although I have a nasty bruise on the inside of my right knee from twisting it on the pathetic last attempt in that vid and I've been sucking down Aleve's since Sunday so I'm not sure how bad it really is.

toothpick · Posted: Jul 08, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject:

ridininmd and STANG KILLA SS have the best advice so far. Letting go with your back hand will help slow the rotation down and make it more controlled.

Also, you are opening up too much to the boat on the landing. That means that you are landing with your toes pointing too much toward the boat. So you want to keep your toes pointing more toward the wake. Kind of like a nice mellow wake to wake jump where you land and don't really edge away hard, but just drift away from the wake. That's why you're slapping the family jewels.

I'll add one piece of advice here that applies to everything you do on a wakeboard. In that video, you may notice you are looking straight ahead until you really get on edge, where you turn to look at the wake. Start looking at the wake as soon as you go flat and are waiting to begin your edge. Doing this will really help with your consistency.

So do those 3 things, let go with your back hand halfway through the roll, keep your board turned more to the front than you are in that video, and look at the wake earlier

Finally, get ready to land it! After that many failed attempts, it gets easy to flip, then prepare to crash. Come into the move visualizing yourself landing and riding away. Then hold on and stick that thing!

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

toothpick, wow...I never realized that I turn my head toward the wake so late...its actually kind of ridiculous to watch now that you pointed that out. I tend to focus so much on the rollers and chop before I start my cut for all my wake jumps so I can get a nice clean approach, but I guess its really unnecessary to turn my head so late. And I do have problems w/ the consistency of my heelside tricks (often get off balance and can't get clean grabs or turn a FS 180 beause I'm out of control) and I've never been able to figure out why I don't have the same problems with toeside w2w...but it makes perfect sense because your basically forced to look at the wake all the way in on toeside jumps because your facing the wake during the whole approach. Interesting. Great advice! Thanks!

I've noticed that on pretty much every landing I have the handle up about chest high...got fix that and then try letting go w/ the back hand too. What can I do to keep the board from opening up towards the boat? That's obviously the main problem, I need to land over my toes rather than on my heels and slide out on my ass.

I'm gonna stomp this shiz next time out. I'm sick of crashing, I think I took more falls on Sunday than I have since the first couple months I started riding...not fun. I'm really comfortable throwing the backroll and being upside down, the speed of the trick doesn't seem to fast or anything...I just haven't ever rode w/ someone in the boat who can tell what I'm doing wrong.

ridininmd · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 1231

bobmurph, one other thing that helped me when I was first learning them was to really focus on pinning my elbows to my ribs. Imagine there is a bar running between them and right through you. Once you get the feel for the rotation better you'll be able to move your arm to speed it up or slow it down as needed. But for now keep that lead elbow pinned to your rib, if you can feel it there you'll know the handle is in the right position without really thinking about it.

If you do that and let go with your back hand half way through the rope will pull your lead hip around just a little. That'll keep you from opening up to the boat and doing those half way to revert ones. It'll save the jewels too since you won't be landing sideways and sliding back.

finkle · Wakeboarder.com Freak Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 4067

the backroll was the first invert i learned. I still remember to this day exactly when and where it finally came together for me....wow, that was almost 5 years ago Shocked

. I was working hard on it forever. My attempts looked just like yours. For me, I went out on the tramp and did backflips for about two half-hour sessions. I just forced myself to get used to going upside down and spotting my landing. The very next time I rode I stuck it. And I continued to do it again and again.

good luck.

Eubanks01 · Newbie Joined: 02 Sep 2003 Posts: 5

Bend your knees and absorb the landing. That is all you need to do PERIOD. You don't need to speed up or slow down your rotation...you're just landing stiff legged. Bend your knees when you land.

Riddick · Outlaw Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Posts: 212 City: Knoxville

It looks like your flippin too early...i bet if you posted another video of you ridin doing w2w grabs and what not and then throw a backroll in there somewhere randomly... i would know your tryin a backroll about 6ft from the wake...you tilt your head over to your right shoulder early every time...that might help with clearing the wake everytime..may help with everything idk. just thought id let you know what i saw.

Riddick · Outlaw Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Posts: 212 City: Knoxville

Ive always been told that you land the same way you take off from the wake.. look at your very first try..pause it 6ft from the wake. then like right when your about to ride up the wake...all your weight is on the back foot, so thats the same way you land...if you waited and rode all the way up the wake then flipped..youll ride away from it..i wouldnt let go with that back hand because your not over rotating..your rotating perfectly...your just landing how you took off.

toothpick · Posted: Jul 09, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject:

Sure thing. The whole looking at the wake earlier thing was something Kyle Schmidt taught me while giving me some training as a coach here at the camp. Kyle has quite the eye for picking up on little things like that. You should notice a huge difference in consistency when you start doing that. Good luck!

bass69 · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 529

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

My knee finally felt stable enough to get out and really get after the HS Backroll again yesterday. I slowed the boat down to 21mph, and pulled the line back to 65'. Funny how much of a 1mph decrease makes...seems so much slower.

The first two in the video were my best attempts of the day. Almost buttchecked out of the 2nd one. I feel like my biggest problem is keeping the handle in tight on my my lead hip. I still get pulled around to revert a little and still tend to overrotate the trick. I need to try dropping my back hand too. I did that a little on the second one in the vid, but not a 6:00, more like right before the landing. The buttcheck was my second to last attempt of the day...hopefully I'll get it soon now that my knee is feeling better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w9aMCA3_dc

Riddick · Outlaw Joined: 14 Feb 2008 Posts: 212 City: Knoxville

your problem is that your leaning back to do the backroll too early causing you to land the same way you take off which is leaning back

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

bass69 · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 529

does that hurt?

bobmurph · Outlaw Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 151 City: Atlanta

bass69 · Addict Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 529

Afrodeziak · Posted: Aug 12, 2008 11:25 am Post subject:

backrolls have a fairly minimal time for spotting your landing, you get it eventually.

best advice I had.. *name drop* from Randy Harris.. the first time I started landing them years ago was under his eye, so I remember everything, lol Smile

keep that handle on your waist. literally, you can be touching your handle to your waist. If you are spinning too fast it means you're not letting the wake pop and probably trying to huck it around too much, as well because you have the handle in so close. If you let it out you will slow your rotation, although I would start with the handle in as close as you can. You will start to feel what the real pop is for a back roll and less of what the hucking feeling is. I find the huck usually leads to less air and skipping out on landings because you are creating so much circular flipping rather than poppin' air Smile

Other best note was to have your legs straight at the time of hitting the wake. Come in on a progressive edge and as you are riding up the wake just stand a bit taller, even lock them out a bit AND BRING YOUR HIPS UP. That will aid to a good pop for sure.

as mentioned, bend your damn knee's and absorb.