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New OK Law
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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 9:32 am    Post subject: New OK Law Reply with quote

Looks like this gets signed into law today. Yet another intrusion into our lives by big government. I was hoping OK wouldn't go this route.


http://www.news9.com/story/28978952/gov-mary-fallin-to-sign-bill-banning-texting-and-driving

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jt09
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just like those damn seatbelts, amirite?
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and not being able to drink and drive!
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, just like those "laws". I don't see the need to legislate behavior like this. You and I should be able to have the ability to make a judgment call on whether we can safely handle the situation. That shouldn't be the job of government to determine.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texting while driving is now the leading cause of death among teenagers – surpassing drinking and driving, according to a study by Cohen Children’s Medical Center. Disturbing statistics from the report include:

More than 3,000 teens die each year in crashes caused by texting while driving
Approximately 2,700 teens are killed in drunk driving accidents
More than 50 percent of teens admit to texting while driving
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've had 3 people in the last week almost crash directly in front of me while fvcking w/ their phones. 2 of them would have absolutely taken out someone else if they'd crashed.

i'm all for personal freedoms, but you don't have the right to impact other's lives like that.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We also have laws on speed limits, because we can't trust people to "do the right thing".
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and murder. and rape. and child abuse. and fraud.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These types of laws aren't going to stop it; it's no different than the drug laws. At the same time states are finally starting to legalize MJ and allow more personal liberties, we're doing this. It contradicts itself on so many levels...LOL!

Quote:
i'm all for personal freedoms, but you don't have the right to impact other's lives like that.


So, tighten up the law of punishing the person for the harm, which is the only actual crime going on, instead of punishing everyone for a certain behavior.

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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jt09 wrote:
and murder. and rape. and child abuse. and fraud.


Those are all examples of infringing upon people's actual right to life, liberty, etc. They all violate the idea of natural law and are true crimes. DUI, texting while driving, etc., in and of themselves, do not/are not.

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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Those are all examples of infringing upon people's actual right to life, liberty, etc. They all violate the idea of natural law and are true crimes. DUI, texting while driving, etc., in and of themselves, do not/are not.


Ummm...........Yes, DUI and Texting while driving infringe upon peoples actual right to life. The person you hit.


I am all about Liberty, but saying DUI and TWD are not a hazard to others is moronic.

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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I leave my office, text and drive all the way to the bar. I have 3 beers and drive home. I hit nobody, caused no harm and it was a non-event. Exactly whose rights did I infringe upon?
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
So, I leave my office, text and drive all the way to the bar. I have 3 beers and drive home. I hit t-bone a minivan and kill a family of 4 Exactly whose rights did I infringe upon?


dont be obtuse

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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously, you see the point.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Increase the punishment for actually causing harm or death and let people make that choice on their own. We don't need the ever increasing government intrusion and behavior control.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73 wrote:
dont be obtuse

unpossible
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i was shaking my head as I typed it.

posted in this thread against the advice of my physican. Off to increase blood pressure meds dosage. Laughing

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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...I think continuing to support laws like this is what is obtuse. It goes against the very idea of liberty that this country was founded upon. You aren't "all about liberty", if you support law like this; laws that at their very core are anti-liberty.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder, once I see other drivers behave in a manner that does not put me and others in harms way, I will be fully with you on not supporting these types of laws. As is, I see way to many drivers who are clearly not paying attention to the most important task at hand which is driving in a responsible manner.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
Increase the punishment for actually causing harm or death and let people make that choice on their own. We don't need the ever increasing government intrusion and behavior control.




Quote:
...I think continuing to support laws like this is what is obtuse. It goes against the very idea of liberty that this country was founded upon. You aren't "all about liberty", if you support law like this; laws that at their very core are anti-liberty.


expert level obtuseness achieved, congratulations.

Increasing the punishment, by definition, reduces a persons Liberty. ya get it?

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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, liberty is conditional, in your mind? Would you be OK with a law restrictions your 2nd Amendment rights with this same condition? Now, I realize the driving isn't a right, but the principles of liberty do apply here, IMO. Why would you take the choice away from a person that has done nothing to cause actual harm? That's the biggest part that makes no sense to me and goes against the idea of liberty.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73 wrote:
Okie Boarder wrote:
Increase the punishment for actually causing harm or death and let people make that choice on their own. We don't need the ever increasing government intrusion and behavior control.




Quote:
...I think continuing to support laws like this is what is obtuse. It goes against the very idea of liberty that this country was founded upon. You aren't "all about liberty", if you support law like this; laws that at their very core are anti-liberty.


expert level obtuseness achieved, congratulations.

Increasing the punishment, by definition, reduces a persons Liberty. ya get it?


LOL! That's like saying the death penalty for 1st degree murder reduces a person's liberty. Do you even understand what liberty is? Talk about obtuse.

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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, The death penalty reduces a persons Liberty by definition.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the death penalty ends the person's life as a consequence of their choice. That person's liberty was intact the whole time and nobody stopped them from exercising it.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
So, liberty is conditional, in your mind?

what freedom do you not have now?
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liberty or freedom? And are you talking with respect to this new law?
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
No, the death penalty ends the person's life as a consequence of their choice. That person's liberty was intact the whole time and nobody stopped them from exercising it.


I guess obtuse was a compliment, i will go back to moronic.

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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
Liberty or freedom? And are you talking with respect to this new law?

this is the shlt people do when they know they have no leg to stand on.
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, well I don't like to assume. If you're talking about liberty and talking about the law, once in place, here's my answer.

The law strip everyone of their choice to decide if they can safely drive with this particular distraction. Many people are capable of texting and driving, never having an incident. Passing this law takes away the choice of the individual (that person's liberty) in favor of assuming guilt and a bad outcome, in an attempt to control the behavior and penalize it.

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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you be OK with a law that said you cannot use a firearm anywhere other than a firing range with distinctly isolated lanes?
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ these laws already exist
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PostPosted: May 05, 2015 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might as well move this discussion to the shitty cops thread - because that's where it is going to end up. Thought the cops needed "probable cause" to pull you over and fk with you now? Their new "probable cause" was just handed to them. Meanwhile, nobody who was texting and driving before is going to stop, it is difficult to prove in court, and it is generally a waste of time. It is not like DWI where they can take blood - yes, they may be able to subpoena cell phone records if you are texting at that moment, but generally, I see this as a knee jerk law that does not fix the problem (hello Patriot act?). What about hands free talk to text, using GPS, etc, etc...
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PostPosted: May 06, 2015 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73 wrote:
^ these laws already exist


Are you OK with those, too? Do you think they are in accordance with protecting our rights?

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PostPosted: May 06, 2015 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making laws like this tends to be a waste of time because Americans are not serious about their laws. The only thing that deters unwanted behavior is intolerable punishment. We do not punish crime here. We tax it. Until the punishment for non compliance is harsh enough to exceed the benefit of the crime, it will not deter behavior.
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