Wakeboarder Forum Index

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   StatisticsStats   FavoritesFavorites   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages  Log inLog in 
BlogsBlogs   

Time to drill a well?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wakeboarder Forum Index -> Non-Wakeboarding
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Apr 01, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject: Time to drill a well? Reply with quote

It may be time for you CA folks to plan for having your own water instead of relying on the muni.



Quote:
ECHO LAKE, Calif. (AP) — California Gov. Jerry Brown ordered state officials Wednesday to impose mandatory water restrictions for the first time in history as the state grapples with a serious drought.

Standing in dry, brown grass at a site that he said normally would be snow-covered this time of year, Brown announced he had signed an executive order requiring the State Water Resources Control Board to implement measures in cities and towns to cut water usage by 25 percent compared with 2013 levels.

The move will affect residents, businesses, farmers and other users.

"We're in a historic drought and that demands unprecedented action," Brown said at the news conference at Echo Summit in the Sierra Nevada, where state water officials found no snow on the ground for their manual survey of the snowpack. "We have to pull together and save water in every way we can."

Brown's order also will require campuses, golf courses, cemeteries and other large landscapes to significantly cut water use; direct local governments to replace 50 million square feet of lawns throughout the state with drought-tolerant landscaping; and create a temporary rebate program for consumers who replace old water-sucking appliances with more efficient ones.

"We're in a new era; the idea of your nice little green grass getting water every day, that's going to be a thing of the past," Brown said.

The order calls on local water agencies to implement tiered water pricing that charges higher rates as more water is used and requires agricultural users to report more water use information to state regulators.

Brown's office said that would boost the state's ability to enforce laws against illegal water diversions and water waste.

The order also prohibits new homes and developments from using drinkable water for irrigation if the structures lack water-efficient drip systems. In addition, the watering of decorative grasses on public street medians is banned.

The snowpack has been in decline all year, with electronic measurements in March showing the statewide snow water equivalent at 19 percent of the historical average for that date.

Snow supplies about a third of the state's water, and a higher snowpack translates to more water in California reservoirs to meet demand in summer and fall.

There was no snow at the site of Wednesday's survey near Echo Summit, about 90 miles east of Sacramento.

"It is such an unprecedented lack of snow, it is way, way below records," said Frank Gehrke, chief of snow surveys for the California Department of Water Resources.

Officials say the snowpack is far below the historic lows of 1977 and 2014, when it was 25 percent of normal on April 1 — the time when the snowpack is generally at its peak.

Brown previously declared a drought emergency and stressed the need for sustained water conservation. But he has come under increasing pressure to be more aggressive as the state enters its fourth year of drought.

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
ohsix
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 6837

PostPosted: Apr 01, 2015 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please change thread title to "CA is about to be completely f*cked".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha!
_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, no.

Problem 1: wells are not allowed in most residential areas.
Problem 2: most, and by most I mean 9 out of 10 gallons of water is used for Agriculture/Environmental use. 90%! Yeah, I've reduced my water usage by 25%+ over the last couple of years. So what? Even if EVERY CA RESIDENT (30m+) reduces by 25%, we only save 2.5% of total usage. It's a "drop in the bucket" if you will.


So, given problem 1, municipalities are having to come up with their own wells (the city I live in has several and is constructing more), or adjust the watering and usage allowances (costs) for their area.

BUT, given problem 2, and revising ohsix's comment: WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE F*CKED. Even places as far away as China are going to be f*cked. The vast majority of water reduction is going to be in agribusiness. Good thing you've got all those raised beds Okie - it's the only way you are going to get 'affordable' veggies for a while.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
jt09
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cali trying to catch up to texas once again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sad but true^ Laughing
_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
ontrider
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys use rain barrels? Or should I call them 'mosquito' barrels?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Problem 1: wells are not allowed in most residential areas.


Of course not...wouldn't want the populace to be self sufficient when you can keep the dependent. Mr. Green

Quote:
BUT, given problem 2, and revising ohsix's comment: WE ARE ALL GOING TO BE F*CKED. Even places as far away as China are going to be f*cked. The vast majority of water reduction is going to be in agribusiness. Good thing you've got all those raised beds Okie - it's the only way you are going to get 'affordable' veggies for a while.


True and this is actually the bigger problem. This is one of the many reasons we are working to get ourselves to a more self sustaining way of life. Those several raised beds we have now will be expanding into a lot more in the new place. We're also looking at other bits and pieces to raising our own food, including some traditional animals and aquaponics systems.

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontrider wrote:
Do you guys use rain barrels? Or should I call them 'mosquito' barrels?


Us as in us heartland folks or as in the CA folks?

I know us heartland folks tend to do a fair amount of rainwater collection and I am planning to set up a system at our new place.

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ontrider, in most places these can be used, so long as they are not a nuisance (skeeters). There are some municipalities that don't allow them, you've just got to check local codes.

I do not use them. A rain barrel isn't really a great solution for our landscape.

The only place where it *might* be useful is in the raised bed I just installed. Watering there will be efficient anyway - drip emitters - so it's more trouble than it's worth considering how little water that garden will end up using.

One of these years I will convince the wife to ditch the front lawn in favor of xeriscape. Hard to do when your kid plays on the lawn. The back lawn holds moisture well, and my kid uses it daily, so it's going to stay. My compromise for now is going to be upgrading (again) the irrigation to be as efficient as we can get it to be. Not happy with the lower flow standard spray heads we used (on standard Rain Bird pop up bodies), going to switch to rotary heads - the city will give me $100 towards it which should cover the entire cost.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
ontrider
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 16491
City: Russia

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah the region here tries to promote them every year and usually has an annual weekend sale. I find they're good for watering gardens when it gets really dry out, but not much else unless you've got a bunch of them. But they take up a lot of space and are UGLY unless you spend like $200/barrel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The barrels are best when you capture all the water your roof puts off and you have something that constantly needs them. I've seen some cool ideas with underground tanks and distribution systems that are pretty cool.
_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Water has been CA problem forever.

Mix 20MM additional people since last resevoirs were built and cyclical weather
patterns and you have a huge problem.

"The west" east of about Dallas and south of Redding is a desert.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
E.J.
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 7597
City: Mogadishu

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you guys talking about? There's a water problem? Meh...it's bad science, we'll be flush in a few years. I'm planting grass, bigger flower beds and fountains! Living in the high desert, feeling good about things!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73, I think the lack of new reservoirs is one of the key elements to the problem. So many other state built tons of reservoirs, yet CA didn't. Why?

They talked about this story on our local news this morning, and the correspondent stated that CA is one of the only states that does not have a comprehensive water plan. Interesting!

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 02, 2015 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73 wrote:
Water has been CA problem forever.

Mix 20MM additional people since last resevoirs were built and cyclical weather
patterns and you have a huge problem.

"The west" east of about Dallas and south of Redding is a desert.

Um, again, this has little to do with the people living here. Direct human consumption/residential use is not the biggest problem.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/california-chases-easiest-water-savings-not-biggest/

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
jryoung
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 7664
City: Man Jose

PostPosted: Apr 03, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's easy to make fun of lush laws and pools in LA, but in similarity with so many issues in 'Merica it's just a low hanging fruit argument and not the actual problem. Like trying to fix congressional spending issues with discretionary spending line items that aren't a material component of the budget.

Almond farmers have gone all in on rising prices and demand, but never considered the costs or risks. Between almonds and alfalfa/hay exports most of our water is loaded on ships.

_________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
- Steve Rinella
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 04, 2015 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read up on how much of CA's water is flushed to ensure the agenda of enviros regarding fish.

They wont build new capacity because any potential site gets tied up in litigation forever over enviro concern(three toed salamander habitat.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 04, 2015 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We already know. Roughly 50% is dedicated to environmental issues. 40% goes to ag and the final 10 goes to consumption. This is where I got my 2.5% number - if we cut back as asked (newsflash we already have) we only save 2.5%.

This is why many of us feel it's idiotic to ask us to take navy showers when ag is dumping supertankers full of water on their acreage.

I get the disdain for the enviro issue, but no matter what a certain amount of water has to flow into the delta to keep the brackish water back. I'm not sure exactly what It takes to keep it back, but I know it would be very bad news if it creeps too far in to the delta.

I've got news for the rest of the nation and honestly, the world. The gravy train might be over for a while...

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 05, 2015 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^then do what any rational person would do.

Build more capacity(reservoirs), oh wait cant do that either.

It is a Bubb Rubbing of our own making, nothing else.

Also, recognize it is great political fodder for the climate change sellers who get this nice little benefit from there other eco policies.

I will say it again, CA is a natural desert (save a minority of areas). It has ALWAYS required irrigation to be the AG powerhouse that it is.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jryoung
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 7664
City: Man Jose

PostPosted: Apr 05, 2015 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rivers are meant to have water, and by flowing they too support a sustainable economy, habitat and my belly. They're critical to our salmon and waterfowl habitat.
_________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
- Steve Rinella
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
^then do what any rational person would do.

Build more capacity(reservoirs), oh wait cant do that either.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The liberals who run California have long purported that their green policies are a free (organic) lunch, but the bills are coming due. Lo, Governor Jerry Brown has mandated a 25% statewide reduction in water use. Consider this rationing a surcharge for decades of environmental excess.

Weather is of course the chief source of California’s water woes. This is the fourth year of below-average precipitation, and January and March were the driest in over a century. The Sierra Nevada snowpack, which contains about a third of state water reserves, is 5% of the historical average compared to 25% last year. Reservoirs and aquifers are also low, and some could run dry this year.

While droughts occur intermittently across the globe, other societies have learned better how to cope with water shortages. For instance, Israel (60% desert) has built massive desalination plants powered by cheap natural gas that helped the country weather the driest winter on record in 2014 and a seven-year drought between 2004 and 2010.

***
Then there’s California, which has suffered four droughts in the last five decades with each seemingly more severe in its impact. Yet this is due more to resource misallocation than harsher conditions.


During normal years, the state should replenish reservoirs. However, environmental regulations require that about 4.4 million acre-feet of water—enough to sustain 4.4 million families and irrigate one million acres of farmland—be diverted to ecological purposes. Even in dry years, hundreds of thousands of acre feet of runoff are flushed into San Francisco Bay to protect fish in the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta.

During the last two winters amid the drought, regulators let more than 2.6 million acre-feet out into the bay. The reason: California lacked storage capacity north of the delta, and environmental rules restrict water pumping to reservoirs south. After heavy rains doused northern California this February, the State Water Resources Control Board dissipated tens of thousands of more acre-feet. Every smelt matters.

Increased surface storage would give regulators more latitude to conserve water during heavy storm-flows and would have allowed the state to stockpile larger reserves during the 15 years that preceded the last drought. Yet no major water infrastructure project has been completed in California since the 1960s.

Money is not the obstacle. Since 2000 voters have approved five bonds authorizing $22 billion in spending for water improvements. Environmental projects have been the biggest winners. In 2008 the legislature established a “Strategic Growth Council” to steer some bond proceeds to affordable housing and “sustainable land use” (e.g., reduced carbon emissions and suburban sprawl).

Meantime, green groups won’t allow new storage regardless—and perhaps because—of the benefits. California’s Department of Water Resources calculates that the proposed Sites Reservoir, which has been in the planning stages since the 1980s, could provide enough additional water during droughts to sustain seven million Californians for a year. Given the regulatory climate, Gov. Brown’s bullet train will probably be built first.


Once beloved by greens, desalination has likewise become unfashionable. After six years of permitting and litigation, the company Poseidon this year will finally complete a $1 billion desalination facility that will augment San Diego County’s water supply by 7%. Most other desalination projects have been abandoned.

One problem is that California electricity rates are among the highest nationwide due to its renewable-energy mandate, and desalination consumes amp-loads of energy. Local and state regulators also impose expensive environmental requirements. Poseidon had to restore 66 acres of wetlands in return for its desalination permit.

The only remaining alternative to stretch scant water supplies is conservation. Yet studies show that mandates and subsidies for low-flow appliances like California’s don’t work because people respond by changing their behavior (e.g., taking longer showers). Despite the diminishing returns, Mr. Brown has ordered more spending on water efficiency.

The most proven strategy to reduce water consumption is market pricing with water rates increasing based on household use. Many water suppliers, and much of Southern California, adopted water metering and market pricing decades ago. But since state law doesn’t mandate metering until 2025, some areas have been slow to shift from fixed rates.

Other suppliers haven’t been as aggressive as they should be at charging for extra water use, which has contributed to large disparities in consumption. For instance, the per-capita daily water use in Cowan Heights is 281 gallons versus 170 in neighboring east Orange and 101 in Tustin.

To his credit, the Governor has instructed the State Water Resources Control Board to develop pricing mechanisms to meet the state’s 25% benchmark and to require larger reductions from suppliers whose residents use more water. His order exempts farmers, yet their water has already been curtailed. Even in wet years, farmers have only received 45% of their contractual allocations due to wildlife diversions. Over 500,000 acres of land were left fallow last year. Many are now drilling deeper wells to pump groundwater at increasing marginal costs.

Not even Gov. Brown can make it rain, but he and other politicians can stop compounding the damage by putting water storage, transportation and market pricing above environmental obsessions. Do not hold your breath—and prepare for French showers

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wat? We had a terrible Feb, with only 2 real days of rain. We got under 3 inches for the month here in the Sacramento area which is 20%~ish below normal.

Also, we lack capacity north of the Delta? Shasta, Trinity, Oroville, Almanor, Bullards, Folsom, Berryessa (amongst many, many smaller reservoirs) are all north of the Delta and all have plenty of room and all are huge reservoirs.

At some point Sites will be built, but making a blanket statement that we don't have capacity north of the Delta is laughable.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my reading it is saying, " lack the storage capacity, OF THE DELTA" meaning there isn't enough resevoir capacity even with the ones you listed to meet the "needs" of the delta.
_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your article reads:

Quote:
California lacked storage capacity north of the delta

That sentence, to me, says the author does not believe we have enough capacity to the north of the delta. I don't agree with that completely. More is welcome, but the impacts of adding capacity must be an acceptable tradeoff. From what I have read, Sites is a logical choice. I've been in that valley a few times, and while it will impact a few farmers and pasturelands, mother nature should have a much less difficult time adapting than in some other locations.



The "needs" of the Delta are actually the NEEDS of the Delta. Let's make sure we all understand that you can't take outflow away without consequences - bigger consequences than the smelt. If the outflows drop and allow brackish water upriver, it could compromise a whole lot of farmland, and potentially, could foul the intake for the canals that divert water southward.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
jryoung
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 7664
City: Man Jose

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another component of the discussion should be the rising salinity of farming soils which is going to render them useless in a decade or so.

Continuing to building capacity and flush water into lands that are not built for water is not an effective solution.

Many thousands of acres should go fallow, landowners can in turn lease their land to solar, we get closer to the renewable energy mandate, investors take advantage of the FTC, and local counties see an increase in revenue from the newly created solar farms.

Farmers win, Water wins, solar wins, banks win, counties win.
(drops mic, walks off stage)

_________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
- Steve Rinella
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
jt09
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 22083
City: Austin

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ completely unbiased opinion, eh jr? Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Many thousands of acres should go fallow, landowners can in turn lease their land to solar,


Hard to accept the answer of, "shutdown some of the most productive farmland in the world".

Where are all the inner city starving fat kids going to get fruit and vegetables from?

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chavez wrote:
Your article reads:

Quote:
California lacked storage capacity north of the delta

That sentence, to me, says the author does not believe we have enough capacity to the north of the delta. I don't agree with that completely. More is welcome, but the impacts of adding capacity must be an acceptable tradeoff. From what I have read, Sites is a logical choice. I've been in that valley a few times, and while it will impact a few farmers and pasturelands, mother nature should have a much less difficult time adapting than in some other locations.



The "needs" of the Delta are actually the NEEDS of the Delta. Let's make sure we all understand that you can't take outflow away without consequences - bigger consequences than the smelt. If the outflows drop and allow brackish water upriver, it could compromise a whole lot of farmland, and potentially, could foul the intake for the canals that divert water southward.


My mistake on the reading comprehension.

I don't advocate stopping all waterflow to the delta. I do advocate building capacity where it is needed. As do the citizens of the state, the politicans and enviros have usurped that will and spent the money on their pet projects.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73 wrote:

I don't advocate stopping all waterflow to the delta. I do advocate building capacity where it is needed. As do the citizens of the state, the politicians and enviros have usurped that will and spent the money on their pet projects.

I realize you aren't advocating to stop all flow. There is a tedious balance between outflows to maintain salinity levels, wildlife needs, and the needs of our very thirsty farmlands. We cannot act as if this is an easy thing to fix. It is not. Adding capacity is just one of several areas needed to balance it out.

As for the politicos usurping $ for these projects - that is just not the case. The infrastructure bills that have been passed are ballot bond issues, and the $ cannot just be redirected without voter approval.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
jryoung
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 7664
City: Man Jose

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jt09 wrote:
^^^ completely unbiased opinion, eh jr? Laughing


Of course, but seriously the rate at which some of our land is farmed and the changing chemistry of that land is unsustainable. It won't be productive in the future. Farmers have dropped row crops to go big on nuts.

This way, instead of the Government stepping in to force farmers to fallow their fields there can be an approach from the private sector.

If done right there could be substantial long term benefit.

_________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
- Steve Rinella
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chavez wrote:
eeven73 wrote:

I don't advocate stopping all waterflow to the delta. I do advocate building capacity where it is needed. As do the citizens of the state, the politicians and enviros have usurped that will and spent the money on their pet projects.

I realize you aren't advocating to stop all flow. There is a tedious balance between outflows to maintain salinity levels, wildlife needs, and the needs of our very thirsty farmlands. We cannot act as if this is an easy thing to fix. It is not. Adding capacity is just one of several areas needed to balance it out.

As for the politicos usurping $ for these projects - that is just not the case. The infrastructure bills that have been passed are ballot bond issues, and the $ cannot just be redirected without voter approval.


So are you telling me this

Quote:
In 2008 the legislature established a “Strategic Growth Council” to steer some bond proceeds to affordable housing and “sustainable land use” (e.g., reduced carbon emissions and suburban sprawl).


is patently false?

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a misrepresentation. The underlying funds are tied to Prop 84 that we passed back in 2006. Using them for purposes such as "sustainable land use" is covered as is using those proceeds for sustainable housing (i.e. so called green housing would be covered).

So what I am telling you is stop using biased sources.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Apr 06, 2015 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chavez wrote:
That is a misrepresentation. The underlying funds are tied to Prop 84 that we passed back in 2006. Using them for purposes such as "sustainable land use" is covered as is using those proceeds for sustainable housing (i.e. so called green housing would be covered).

So what I am telling you is stop using biased sources.


Unbiased sources like...........?

MSM is OHHHHH NOOOOOESSSS never water again in CA!!!! Is that unbiased?

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wakeboarder Forum Index -> Non-Wakeboarding All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

Add To Favorites

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
             


Copyright © 2012 - Wakeboarding - Wakeboarder.com - All Right Reserved
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group