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okie boarder's house
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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: Dec 18, 2015 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Framing has begun. After getting all the concrete finalized and looking at the plans, it was looking like our garage was not going to be as tall (doors and ceilings) as was planned. The slab of the garage was actually partially up off grade and we didn't go as high on the stem was as the plans. To stick with the taller ceilings in the garage and to do 10' tall doors, we had to raise the rood over the garage, so it will transition right there to a few feet higher. We're interested to see how it ends up looking...we've looked around at other houses that transition higher in the garage area and it is a pretty cool look.






















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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: Dec 20, 2015 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, we went to look at the progress and as we were looking around, we noticed this...no drain flange/pipe for the toilet in the hall bath. We panicked and wondered how it could be fixed. Then, we looked back at the earlier pics and realized the drain is there, it just must be lower than the finished concrete level, so they will just have to chip that away to get to it. Phew!



Things are progressing well...all the walls are up and set...nw it's time for ceiling joists and roof framing.



























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PostPosted: Dec 21, 2015 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love to see lumber going up. The foundations I design I use 10' deep piers (with a 3' bell and 1' shaft) spaced every 8'-10' around the perimeter of the building and a few under key locations in the center. With that I will use a 24" grade beam 12" wide with 3-#5 rebar top and bottom of the grade beam and it has a 4" slab with #4 rebar on 16 o.c.

Wes is right it is to fight the soil movement. When I design a post tension the grade beams vary from 24-36" deep. The soil here can be bad I have personally seen a house be 4" higher one side than the other due to expansive soils.

We design quite a few mostly metal buildings right now I probably design about 1 per day.

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PostPosted: Dec 22, 2015 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the grade beam the same thing as a footing?

You probably noticed in the pictures, but our design comes pretty close. The footing had 4 #5 rebar horizontals that were tied with verticals at certain increments. Also, there were 4 #5 rebar verticals in the piers tied to the footing pieces. The footing is 18" thick and 18" deep IIRC. The piers are drilled until they hit solid ground. I think we had a few that were 8' deep. #5 rebar was used in the slab, also and the slab was 6" thick.

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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: Dec 30, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continued progress...getting the framing almost done and roofing is coming next.






































































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PostPosted: Dec 31, 2015 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice colour choice with the green walls, goes well with the natural setting of the property.
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PostPosted: Dec 31, 2015 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You like that, huh? I think we need more of the black striping, though.
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PostPosted: Jan 04, 2016 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continued progress. Last week and into the he weekend, the framing has been finished and the roof is up. The electrician is now getting started and further work on the plumbing is taking place. If all goes well, we should be sheet rocked and textured by mid to late February, then we start much of the finish work. I'm sure we'll be out working on the house every chance we can get so we progress quickly.






























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PostPosted: Jan 05, 2016 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is that sheathing like the old black fiber board? why not use OSB
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PostPosted: Jan 05, 2016 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it's an OSB with a special coating on the outside surface, that combined with the tape creates a water and vapor barrier. It takes the place of using plain OSB, plus a wrap like Tyvek.
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PostPosted: Jan 06, 2016 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff. How does window installation differ between that product and wrap + ply/osb? I notice that they also have blocked the soffits entirely. Are they cutting in individual vents, or are you building your house with a "hot roof" where the attic isn't ventilated and the insulation is applied direct to the roof sheathing?
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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: Jan 06, 2016 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure the windows are much different. I know they will be installed and then a similar tape product is used to seal them around their perimeter, from what I've seen and what our contractor has told us. Yes, there will be soffit vents cut in later.
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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things are continuing to progress along. HVAC rough-in is done. Plumbing and electrical rough-in is close. We've had a few things come up that affected budget, so some changes are being made to adjust. I tried to take some interior pictures to show some of the work, but it can be a bit tough in tight quarters...hopefully they are helpful for visualizing some of the layout and progress. As you may notice, we did a lot of can lights, so there are very few fixtures. If all goes well, electrical will be finished this week, along with windows, then it is on to exterior finish.
























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Okie Boarder
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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2016 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, we have been working on finalizing the design for the kitchen cabinets and decided to make one change, which was to put the oven stack in a corner. The layout and elevations have been sketched out and looks like we have a pretty good design. Here are some pictures showing the design. Any thoughts or suggestions?









We were actually at the house this weekend doing clean up, and laid out the design to see how it would look an feel.



Pulled the truck in the garage while we were there. Looks like it's going to fit just fine. Wink


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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2016 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_work_triangle

Quote:
No leg of the triangle should be less than 4 feet (1.2 m) or more than 9 feet (2.7 m).
The sum of all three sides of the triangle should be between 13 feet (4.0 m) and 26 feet (7.9 m).
Cabinets or other obstacles should not intersect any leg of the triangle by more than 12 inches (30 cm).
If possible, there should be no major traffic flow through the triangle.
A full-height obstacle, such as a tall cabinet, should not come between any two points of the triangle.

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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2016 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sink isn't going anywhere Without $$$.

I looked at your original drawings and it looks like you could slide the dishwasher to the right of the sink and put the refrigerator to the left of sink.

IMPO you are going to be cursing that island in the current configuration.

Also, unclear if there is water to the fridge based on above pics, but moving would make that MUCH simpler in the future if wanted.

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PostPosted: Jan 18, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there is water to the fridge already. I've had some interesting and mixed feedback on the layout, even back during the original design phase. It seems like the island can be a little bit of a double edged sword and messes with the common triangle concept. In some ways it can compliment it because it becomes another workspace in the triangle. I grew up in a house with a center island and everything spread out some like our design, then have had other kitchens that seemed to follow the basic triangle rules more. It seems to me that they both work and have their pros and cons.
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PostPosted: Jan 20, 2016 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I noticed in my reading of kitchen layouts is that several sources suggest placing the fridge and pantry somewhere that it is not in the path of the cooking or cleaning zone. Seems like we have placed ours well for that concern. I also saw a lot of mention of two zones, which I think we've created, as well. The two zone idea will work well for us since we frequently have 2-3 people in the kitchen either doing cooking and cleaning or cooking and baking.

So, other than layout, any other comments or suggestions? We're still nailing down exact placement of everything, but we know for now we will have cabinets with pullouts for pots and pans under the cooktop. We will also have spice rack pullouts under there next to the cabinets. The island will house most of the baking supplies (spatulas, cookie sheets, pans. etc) and other cooking supplies (casserole dishes, etc) and knives.

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PostPosted: Jan 20, 2016 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our kitchen doesn't fit the kitchen work triangle criteria and it works great. If you break it into 2 triangles: 1 being Fridge, counter space, sink and 2 being oven/stove, sink, counter space then ours fits and that's basically the work flow my wife uses. It's rare that she uses the fridge and stove/oven in the same step.

Here's a picture of our kitchen from when we were building. The main sink is under the window and there's a another sink in the island. The only think I would do different if I had it to do over would be install a 2nd dishwasher to the right of the main sink.



For scale, the kitchen and stove are 4' wide.
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PostPosted: Jan 20, 2016 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How tall did y'all go with your countertops?
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PostPosted: Jan 20, 2016 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have standard height. Saw no reason to go higher. Wife and I are both 5'8".

I'm not sold that the triangle is necessary for residential applications. I mean, if you fridge is in another room, yea, ok, but that kitchen I think will flow just fine. I totally get/appreciate the triangle concept though.

We love having a large flat area on the island. It is really good for prep and even better for baking. Also, we we really appreciate having a wide aisle - We have about 5 feet and it really makes for multiple cooks in the kitchen not really being an issue. I love ohsix's kitchen - but if that was ours we would have a flat island instead of a bar style. The bar style is great for hanging out/social but we'd lean toward the function of a single flat level. This is really a personal preference, it's not for everyone.

I also cannot stress this enough: If you have a cabinet you think might be nice with a roll-out, DO IT NOW. We only have a couple of cabinets without roll-outs and it is very handy.

One thing of note: both the wife and I recently agreed: our next house will have a walk-in pantry. It is a deal breaker for us. If we found a house that did not have one, it would need to have space to build one.

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chavez
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PostPosted: Jan 20, 2016 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Additional thought: is the rock up yet? If no, I wonder if it wouldn't be too costly to run a cold line over for a pot filler? Those can be pretty useful.
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PostPosted: Jan 20, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chavez, I agree on the flat island and that's our plan. Did you do your island at the same height as the rest of the counters, or lower? We'll definitely be using it for prep and baking, which is one reason we're planning to go with butcher block top. 5' aisle huh? Hmmm, that seems huge to me, but I bet it's nice. Right now it looks like we're going to have around 4' on two sides and 3.5' on the third. I might look at placement and island size to see if we can make those aisles a little bigger.

Quote:
I also cannot stress this enough: If you have a cabinet you think might be nice with a roll-out, DO IT NOW. We only have a couple of cabinets without roll-outs and it is very handy.


Can you explain the reasoning for doing the roll-out now instead of just planning for it and adding them over time?

I hear ya on the pantry. A walk-in is very nice and we wanted a huge one, which is why we opted for the detached set up down the hall. It would probably be nice to still have a small corner pantry or walk-in, but we decided having cabinets set up to be used that way will work just as well in our layout, since there really will only be regular use items needed in the kitchen itself.

No, the rock isn't up yet. We went away from a pot filler as a cost savings and we didn't see ourselves using one all that much. It probably wouldn't be a huge cost to add another line at this point...something we can check into.

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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Did you do your island at the same height as the rest of the counters, or lower?

Everything is standard height.

I'm not sure if the aisle width was a mistake by the builder, or if the original homeowners asked for it to be set that way. Either way, we kept it as it was when we remodeled - we got really used to the width and really wouldn't want it any other way. You can open all the doors (oven and dishwasher included) and none obstruct the aisle.

You guys can cheat a few inches on the fridge side by going with a counter-depth fridge instead of a standard depth. We love having the counter-depth, and I talked my mom into the same and she loves it too. Counter-depth models are obviously a little smaller inside, but we always have a garage fridge/freezer going so space isn't much of a concern.

Quote:
Can you explain the reasoning for doing the roll-out now instead of just planning for it and adding them over time?

Because if you are like most people, you won't --> you'll talk about how it would be nice, but it will get repeatedly kicked down the road and just won't happen.

Taking care of it now is a very small line item on a very large budget. But, the added convenience is well, well worth it.

I'd take a pantry down the hall even. Right now about 1/3 of my coat closet is a pantry and it is not ideal. We have 4 full size (22w*24d) roll outs in our "pantry" cabinet and even that isn't enough. Sh*t gets lost in the back and goes unused. We really need to see the stuff like it's on a store shelf, it's just how we are wired. Ideally, it would be a walk in pantry with 12" shelves so nothing could get too far in the back, and really good lighting.

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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points...thanks.

I hear ya on the pantry. We have a small one in the house we're in now, plus we have stuff in the entry closet, hall closet, a couple cabinets above the dryer and on shelves in the garage. LOL!

I noticed that when looking at appliances, the counter depth fridge offerings limited choice and raised cost some, so we are going with standard. We weren't convinced that the look was worth it.

We're tossing around going with 38" high counters so the sink counter area just flows right into the window sill. That window rough-in is right at 36" to the bottom, so we could go with 36" cabinet bases and lay the granite on top, letting it fill the window sill. We're thinking that would be a cleaner look and the extra couple inches above normal may not be all that noticeable.

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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Choices are much more limited with C-D fridges, but it's getting better. If I had a "fridge cabinet" where the monster was contained neatly, I don't think we'd care. There was no good way to do that in our kitchen without reframing the soffit, and we weren't down for that. If we were building new we'd probably splurge here and go built-in.

I'd go with counters at standard 36, and let the granite fill out the window sill. It seems like that would look way cleaner and more uniform. Plus it should be easier to keep clean.

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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we do it where the counters are at 36", the granite would be below the level of the sill. To fill in to the sill, they will have to be at 38".
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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

okieboarder wrote:
We went away from a pot filler as a cost savings and we didn't see ourselves using one all that much.


We went through the same thought process, and omitting this is the only regret we have with our kitchen. Our kitchen layout is quite a bit different with the sink in the island etc, but it is a relatively small expense for something you will probably use more than you think.

I wouldn't go higher than standard height on the counters. We build our current kitchen with large, flat counter tops at standard height. I am taller than you, and when doing food prep, standard height is just right.

We went with nearly all drawers rather than cabinets under the countertop. We have one cabinet for vertical storage of pans, and cabinet under the sink, but otherwise everything is drawers. We've found its easier to organize things that way.

What are you putting in the corner opposite the oven?
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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something interesting I read about counter height is that tall or short our arms end up around the same place relative to a counter. I haven't tested this out, but it caught my attention.

We may end up doing more drawers when it's all said and done.

The corner opposite the oven will have the drawers for dishtowels and rags, potholders, etc. Maybe we'll do the top drawer as a silverware drawer. We will also have a small appliance garage for a couple small, regularly used items. Other than that, we haven't decided for sure and want to keep the options open with the uppers being cabinet doors and lots of space. That may be a pretty good spot for plates and glasses, but I think we'll have to see.

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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In our corner upper cabinet, we opted for a glass door and keep glasses in there. The only issue is you need to keep it neat or it looks like ish. Hasn't been a problem for us.

I misunderstood what you said about the height and the sill. What about using a separate piece of granite as a sill so it matches? What is your backsplash material?

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PostPosted: Jan 21, 2016 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In our corner upper cabinet, we opted for a glass door and keep glasses in there. The only issue is you need to keep it neat or it looks like ish. Hasn't been a problem for us.


Yeah, my wife doesn't like glass doors for that reason.

Quote:
I misunderstood what you said about the height and the sill. What about using a separate piece of granite as a sill so it matches? What is your backsplash material?


Yeah, that is another thought where the counter comes in under the window and then we use granite in the sill, so it looks double stacked at that point. We haven't decided for sure on backsplash material yet...we're leaning towards a tile of some sort, or we might do a short granite backsplash.

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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2016 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
Yeah, my wife doesn't like glass doors for that reason.


That's why we opted for frosted glass with backlights in any of the few cabinets that we put glass in. Looks nice, and if something is slightly out of place it doesn't detract from the look.


Good call on the lower corner. So many of them have lazy susan's installed which I find beyond useless. As I mentioned earlier, our lowers are nearly all drawers. When we were considering this, our initial though was that it would take away flexibility that a cabinet would give us. In practice, it means not digging through a pile or stack of things to get to the proper mixing bowl, pan or container. There are obviously some taller things that live in cabinets (stock pots, some larger kitchen tools), but the drawers have made our work more efficient.
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2016 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good call on the frosted glass. Yeah, we may play around with the actual placement and layout of items and add more drawers when it's all said and done. I know my parents have lots of drawers and it works very well.
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PostPosted: Jan 22, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjaszkow, we use the hell out of our lazy susan. Maybe we are an anomaly? I'd definitely rather have an angled cabinet with drawers there, but it would have rendered that corner useless (too deep for us).

If we were to do it again, I think more large drawers would have been nice. As it is, we added 4 drawers, which was a big help. Our cabinets are pretty organized now, Drawers with organizers for things like pots/pans etc would be even better.

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PostPosted: Jan 23, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More progress...windows are in, patio posts are up and the fraidy hole is done. Data and coax lines are being run and insulation is getting started.








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