Wakeboarder Forum Index

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   StatisticsStats   FavoritesFavorites   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages  Log inLog in 
BlogsBlogs   

Living off the grid
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wakeboarder Forum Index -> Non-Wakeboarding
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Living off the grid Reply with quote

I'm noticing more and more stories about people being charged with a crime for living off the grid, or a push to make it illegal. Here are a few links to a couple recent stories, where action was taken against individuals.

Thoughts?

I'm all for the idea of living off the grid and hope to get there some day. I think it is well within a person's rights to decide how they want to live and take care of themselves. Cities, counties, and states will usually step in on issues like this and claim some sort of threat to public safety or similar, to convince people they have the right to dictate behavior. It seems this crosses the line and I don't see where being self sustaining is at all harmful.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-10/off-the-grid-in-florida-robin-speronis-fights-municipal-code

http://offgridsurvival.com/livingoffthegridcrime/comment-page-2/

http://www.inquisitr.com/1369086/why-is-florida-and-texas-so-strongly-against-off-grid-living-practices-that-they-deem-it-illegal/

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only went in to the article on BW so far... but just off the top she is creating a fire and CO hazard by using a propane lantern indoors, and sounds like she is using the sewer system without paying for it.

Two municipal issues from a municipal perspective off the top of my head are:

1) electrical interconnection - people illegally using solar or wind to power their homes, whilst still being interconnected to the power company. That is a no-no for sure.
2) rainwater - depending on the municipal water source, they may have accounted for the water that is supposed to naturally hit the soil and partially become groundwater.


I definitely support the idea to become more self-reliant, but it has to be done in the right way. You can't just cut the lines to the muni and expect everything to be fine. There are likely some unintended consequences that could occur.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Illegally using solar or wind?

So, the muni owns the rain?

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder, yes, electrical and building codes must be followed.

The muni doesn't quite "own" the rain, but the muni expects X amount of water to hit the property and either absorb into the ground or run off into the storm drains. Cisterns are allowed in a lot of places, but they usually have some limit to the amount that can be collected. It's not a very big deal if just one home does it, but if lots of homes do it, it could become a problem.

In very wet places, cisterns should really be the norm. Hell, in Bermuda where my bud lives, his house water is 100% rain runoff. The entire foundation is basically a huge cistern. He has a pump (duh) but also installed a RO and UV system to purify the water. Works great - hell beyond great. Anyhow, it's a great idea but there are other concerns that need to be accounted for to be sure.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The muni doesn't quite "own" the rain, but the muni expects X amount of water to hit the property and either absorb into the ground or run off into the storm drains. Cisterns are allowed in a lot of places, but they usually have some limit to the amount that can be collected. It's not a very big deal if just one home does it, but if lots of homes do it, it could become a problem.


If the homeowner is reducing their water usage by a proportional amount, wouldn't it be a wash?

I would love a set up like your buddy.

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Wakeboarder.com Freak


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have zero issue with someone living off the grid, but you still have to follow the codes and laws in place. If you want to truly live off the grid then move into the county where you don't have the same issues. Doing it in the middle of a subdivision isn't going to work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another reason it is "ILLEGAL" to disconnect for Municipal system is so the property owner doesn't just dig a big pit for waste/ waste water. Which would quickly become an environmental and health hazard.

If there are regs regarding rain runoff I know they are not enforced in this area. Every tom, dick and harry has multiple rain barrels connected to roof runoff.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73, I understand it to be both a water rights and a building code issue. Depending on how much those around your area are storing, they might be required to have it inspected to be legit. It all depends on the state and local regs.
_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you want to truly live off the grid then move into the county where you don't have the same issues.


Seems a lot less trouble to do it in the country versus the city.

Quote:
Another reason it is "ILLEGAL" to disconnect for Municipal system is so the property owner doesn't just dig a big pit for waste/ waste water.


As long as it is cement lined, what would be the problem with that?

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder, cement lined? Still can leech into the surrounding groundwater.

One thing I should mention is the reason why they now use cisterns in Bermuda is their groundwater has been completely polluted by the sewage/septic - so wells are no longer allowed for use. Wells used to be the norm...

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Okie Boarder, cement lined?


Yeah...


_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously, there are issues in areas that have to be considered. A septic tank in every yard in a heavily populated area may not be feasible to protect the ground water. But, capturing rainwater and using it in the house is very feasible. Rather than making these things "illegal", why not encourage folks to be as self sustaining as possible. In the city, people could capture rainwater and have it tied into their house for use, but still pay to be connected to the sewer. That would be a partial "off the grid" scenario, that could work out very well for all involved.
_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder, it's not about being illegal. It's just got to be up to code and go through the inspection process.

So, you can't just throw up solar and half-ass it into the house, nor can you just dig a hole and toss in a septic tank. There are permitting, planning, and inspections to make sure you aren't going to burn down the house, electrocute the neighborhood kids, or leech shitterwater into your neighbor's yard, etc.

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Sep 18, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie.

Cause some ahole collects a bunch of rainwater stores it improperly and spreads_________.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chavez wrote:
Okie Boarder, it's not about being illegal. It's just got to be up to code and go through the inspection process.

So, you can't just throw up solar and half-ass it into the house, nor can you just dig a hole and toss in a septic tank. There are permitting, planning, and inspections to make sure you aren't going to burn down the house, electrocute the neighborhood kids, or leech shitterwater into your neighbor's yard, etc.


I'm all for doing it right and that's what I'd like to do. I do think there is a feeling of "sticking it to the man" associated with doing it yourself and why people tend to buck that.

It seems to me that if you can provide the plans for your set up, showing it follows best practice (code) that should be enough.

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73 wrote:
Okie.

Cause some ahole collects a bunch of rainwater stores it improperly and spreads_________.


How are you thinking it would spread?

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2014 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
It seems to me that if you can provide the plans for your set up, showing it follows best practice (code) that should be enough.

sure, then have it inspected when complete

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and pay the fee for the inspection...

^that is one piece people seem fed up with.

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Wakeboarder.com Freak


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
and pay the fee for the inspection...

^that is one piece people seem fed up with.


I'm going to help solve your problem. Move to some craphole country with no rules, regulations, and fees and see if you like it better, or if it's safer, or if there is less disease, etc. You may think a lot of these regulations, fees, rules, etc. are oppressive and step on your toes, but most are in place to protect the general public's interest over allowing one person to do as he pleases.

As I said before buy a plot of land way far out in the country and do what you want. Just pay your taxes (which I'm sure you also have a problem with) and no one will ever come looking for you. Those of us that live in neighborhoods much prefer that everyone live within the same constraints, so that your choices don't negatively affect my property value, living conditions, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 22, 2014 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I definitely would love to buy a plot of land out in the country and be able to be off the grid. Right now it isn't feasible, but it may happen at some point. I only have a problem with unjust taxes, like income tax. I have no problem paying excise taxes.
_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Tracktor
Soul Rider
Soul Rider


Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Posts: 339
City: Vancouver, WA

PostPosted: Sep 22, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People who want to be "off the grid" and live in the city/town crack me up. Just like all the idiots keeping chickens & livestock in their front yard....................I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed. However, I live way out in the country............It's not for everyone but in the end it's worth it...................
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RampageWake
Wakeboarder.Commie
Wakeboarder.Commie


Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 2002
City: Houston

PostPosted: Sep 22, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I do like getting away from the masses in the city, being "off the grid" has no appeal to me.
My place in the country is pretty remote; we had to make a ~30 mi radio shot with Ubiquiti gear to get the hi-speed internets. Before that all we had was dial-up. Tragic.

_________________
Rhawn wrote:
You should have a less retarded friend read over your posts before you hit "Submit"

RIP M.H.Legge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Wakeboarder.com Freak


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson

PostPosted: Sep 22, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okie Boarder wrote:
I definitely would love to buy a plot of land out in the country and be able to be off the grid. Right now it isn't feasible, but it may happen at some point. I only have a problem with unjust taxes, like income tax. I have no problem paying excise taxes.


"Unjust" taxes huh? You could have surprised me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Okie Boarder
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 10056
City: Edmond

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracktor wrote:
People who want to be "off the grid" and live in the city/town crack me up. Just like all the idiots keeping chickens & livestock in their front yard....................I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed. However, I live way out in the country............It's not for everyone but in the end it's worth it...................


No kidding...keep the livestock and chickens in the backyard. Duh!

_________________
If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
jason_ssr
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Wakeboarder.com Freak


Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 4054
City: Dallas, Tx

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2014 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes you wonder how humanity ever survived without government protecting rainwater and waste!
_________________
TONA

My avatar is NOT a pic of me! HAHA!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
brew
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Wakeboarder.com Freak


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 2778
City: Jackson

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jason_ssr wrote:
Makes you wonder how humanity ever survived without government protecting rainwater and waste!


There were a lot less people back then along with a lot less other things that come along with people. Take a look around at country's with no oversight / governmental intervention and let me know which one you would like to model the new US after.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
twitch88
Wakeboarder.Commie
Wakeboarder.Commie


Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Posts: 1247
City: up the hill, ca

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2014 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracktor wrote:
I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed.


I'm callin bs on that one. What is your long term plan for food storage? You just gonna go buy ice every week or go to the store to buy food everyday? That is not living sans electricity. We go without electricity for literally weeks at a time during heavy storms and the refrigerator is without a doubt the most important appliance known to man.

_________________
I once saw a fork lift pick up a pallet of forks, it was way too literal for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fish6942
Addict
Addict


Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 603

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

twitch88 wrote:
Tracktor wrote:
I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed.


I'm callin bs on that one. What is your long term plan for food storage? You just gonna go buy ice every week or go to the store to buy food everyday? That is not living sans electricity. We go without electricity for literally weeks at a time during heavy storms and the refrigerator is without a doubt the most important appliance known to man.


I don't know about him, but I typically have enough fresh gas to live off of generator power for up to 3 weeks or so. Granted, that is with running the generator at a fairly low duty cycle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RampageWake
Wakeboarder.Commie
Wakeboarder.Commie


Joined: 23 Jul 2003
Posts: 2002
City: Houston

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

<prepper>Propane powered fridge -- we have (4) 500 gallon propane tanks and 170,000 rounds of 5.56 </prepper> Laughing
_________________
Rhawn wrote:
You should have a less retarded friend read over your posts before you hit "Submit"

RIP M.H.Legge
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jason_ssr
Wakeboarder.com Freak
Wakeboarder.com Freak


Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 4054
City: Dallas, Tx

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brew wrote:
jason_ssr wrote:
Makes you wonder how humanity ever survived without government protecting rainwater and waste!


There were a lot less people back then along with a lot less other things that come along with people. Take a look around at country's with no oversight / governmental intervention and let me know which one you would like to model the new US after.


You think the US got where it is modelling itself after other countries?

Man has collected rainwater for centuries, and done so in dense population. My dad has it at his house right now. He puts no effort into it. It rains, it fills up 1000gal tank. Never had an issue.

I never had city sewage growing up. I seemed to have survived. You flush and it goes to a tank. As it reaches a certain level, gravity sends it out field lines into, get this, THE GROUND! The very same ground my water well was dug into!!! CRAZY, RIGHT? How did we ever make it?

Alarmists always make something out of nothing.

_________________
TONA

My avatar is NOT a pic of me! HAHA!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
eeven73
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 5377
City: Halfway

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^this is the stupidest thing you have ever written.

Look I am no fan of big gov't but, come on. You dont think there is a scientific reality to ground water polution by over used septic systems. There is a finite limit to population density without modern sewage processing, which all suburban areas are well beyond.

_________________
Is President Obama a Keynesian?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
chavez
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 27375
City: Roseville

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeven73 wrote:
^this is the stupidest thing you have ever written.

Look I am no fan of big gov't but, come on. You dont think there is a scientific reality to ground water polution by over used septic systems. There is a finite limit to population density without modern sewage processing, which all suburban areas are well beyond.

Which is why the systems in Bermuda I mentioned earlier have had to go to rain collection instead of wells. The water is down there... it's just not fit for human consumption.

TL;DR: EWWWWW

_________________
Quote:
That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole.


RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
LFADAM
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
PityDaFool Who Posts This Much


Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 5283
City: New York City

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jason_ssr, you do know that there are very strict rules for how close a well can be to a septic drain field? They have to be quite far apart to not contaminate your well or your neighbor's well or even a nearby waterway. You could never have septic systems in an urban area and not contaminate the groundwater.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog
vette74
Wakeboarder.Commie
Wakeboarder.Commie


Joined: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 2144
City: Houston

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LFADAM wrote:
jason_ssr, you do know that there are very strict rules for how close a well can be to a septic drain field? They have to be quite far apart to not contaminate your well or your neighbor's well or even a nearby waterway. You could never have septic systems in an urban area and not contaminate the groundwater.


In Texas it is 100' away or 50' if it is incased in concrete.

_________________
There'll be two dates on your tombstone/ And all your friends will read 'em/ But all that's gonna matter is that little dash between 'em...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jryoung
Ladies Man
Ladies Man


Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 7664
City: Man Jose

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case anyone here is looking at solar hit me up. Don't make the mistake Chavez did by going with Elon. Wink
_________________
Quote:
You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world.
- Steve Rinella
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Blog Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wakeboarder Forum Index -> Non-Wakeboarding All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

Add To Favorites

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
             


Copyright © 2012 - Wakeboarding - Wakeboarder.com - All Right Reserved
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group