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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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chavez Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 27375 City: Roseville
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 9:30 am Post subject: |
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I only went in to the article on BW so far... but just off the top she is creating a fire and CO hazard by using a propane lantern indoors, and sounds like she is using the sewer system without paying for it.
Two municipal issues from a municipal perspective off the top of my head are:
1) electrical interconnection - people illegally using solar or wind to power their homes, whilst still being interconnected to the power company. That is a no-no for sure.
2) rainwater - depending on the municipal water source, they may have accounted for the water that is supposed to naturally hit the soil and partially become groundwater.
I definitely support the idea to become more self-reliant, but it has to be done in the right way. You can't just cut the lines to the muni and expect everything to be fine. There are likely some unintended consequences that could occur. _________________
Quote: | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Illegally using solar or wind?
So, the muni owns the rain? _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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chavez Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 27375 City: Roseville
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Okie Boarder, yes, electrical and building codes must be followed.
The muni doesn't quite "own" the rain, but the muni expects X amount of water to hit the property and either absorb into the ground or run off into the storm drains. Cisterns are allowed in a lot of places, but they usually have some limit to the amount that can be collected. It's not a very big deal if just one home does it, but if lots of homes do it, it could become a problem.
In very wet places, cisterns should really be the norm. Hell, in Bermuda where my bud lives, his house water is 100% rain runoff. The entire foundation is basically a huge cistern. He has a pump (duh) but also installed a RO and UV system to purify the water. Works great - hell beyond great. Anyhow, it's a great idea but there are other concerns that need to be accounted for to be sure. _________________
Quote: | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 10:32 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | The muni doesn't quite "own" the rain, but the muni expects X amount of water to hit the property and either absorb into the ground or run off into the storm drains. Cisterns are allowed in a lot of places, but they usually have some limit to the amount that can be collected. It's not a very big deal if just one home does it, but if lots of homes do it, it could become a problem. |
If the homeowner is reducing their water usage by a proportional amount, wouldn't it be a wash?
I would love a set up like your buddy. _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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brew Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2778 City: Jackson
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I have zero issue with someone living off the grid, but you still have to follow the codes and laws in place. If you want to truly live off the grid then move into the county where you don't have the same issues. Doing it in the middle of a subdivision isn't going to work. |
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eeven73 PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 5377 City: Halfway
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Another reason it is "ILLEGAL" to disconnect for Municipal system is so the property owner doesn't just dig a big pit for waste/ waste water. Which would quickly become an environmental and health hazard.
If there are regs regarding rain runoff I know they are not enforced in this area. Every tom, dick and harry has multiple rain barrels connected to roof runoff. _________________ Is President Obama a Keynesian? |
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chavez Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 27375 City: Roseville
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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eeven73, I understand it to be both a water rights and a building code issue. Depending on how much those around your area are storing, they might be required to have it inspected to be legit. It all depends on the state and local regs. _________________
Quote: | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | If you want to truly live off the grid then move into the county where you don't have the same issues. |
Seems a lot less trouble to do it in the country versus the city.
Quote: | Another reason it is "ILLEGAL" to disconnect for Municipal system is so the property owner doesn't just dig a big pit for waste/ waste water. |
As long as it is cement lined, what would be the problem with that? _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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chavez Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 27375 City: Roseville
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Okie Boarder, cement lined? Still can leech into the surrounding groundwater.
One thing I should mention is the reason why they now use cisterns in Bermuda is their groundwater has been completely polluted by the sewage/septic - so wells are no longer allowed for use. Wells used to be the norm... _________________
Quote: | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Okie Boarder, cement lined? |
Yeah...
_________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously, there are issues in areas that have to be considered. A septic tank in every yard in a heavily populated area may not be feasible to protect the ground water. But, capturing rainwater and using it in the house is very feasible. Rather than making these things "illegal", why not encourage folks to be as self sustaining as possible. In the city, people could capture rainwater and have it tied into their house for use, but still pay to be connected to the sewer. That would be a partial "off the grid" scenario, that could work out very well for all involved. _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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chavez Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 27375 City: Roseville
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Okie Boarder, it's not about being illegal. It's just got to be up to code and go through the inspection process.
So, you can't just throw up solar and half-ass it into the house, nor can you just dig a hole and toss in a septic tank. There are permitting, planning, and inspections to make sure you aren't going to burn down the house, electrocute the neighborhood kids, or leech shitterwater into your neighbor's yard, etc. _________________
Quote: | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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eeven73 PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 5377 City: Halfway
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Posted: Sep 18, 2014 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Okie.
Cause some ahole collects a bunch of rainwater stores it improperly and spreads_________. _________________ Is President Obama a Keynesian? |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 19, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
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chavez wrote: | Okie Boarder, it's not about being illegal. It's just got to be up to code and go through the inspection process.
So, you can't just throw up solar and half-ass it into the house, nor can you just dig a hole and toss in a septic tank. There are permitting, planning, and inspections to make sure you aren't going to burn down the house, electrocute the neighborhood kids, or leech shitterwater into your neighbor's yard, etc. |
I'm all for doing it right and that's what I'd like to do. I do think there is a feeling of "sticking it to the man" associated with doing it yourself and why people tend to buck that.
It seems to me that if you can provide the plans for your set up, showing it follows best practice (code) that should be enough. _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 19, 2014 11:52 am Post subject: |
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eeven73 wrote: | Okie.
Cause some ahole collects a bunch of rainwater stores it improperly and spreads_________. |
How are you thinking it would spread? _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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chavez Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 27375 City: Roseville
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Posted: Sep 19, 2014 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Okie Boarder wrote: | It seems to me that if you can provide the plans for your set up, showing it follows best practice (code) that should be enough. |
sure, then have it inspected when complete _________________
Quote: | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 19, 2014 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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and pay the fee for the inspection...
^that is one piece people seem fed up with. _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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brew Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2778 City: Jackson
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Posted: Sep 19, 2014 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Okie Boarder wrote: | and pay the fee for the inspection...
^that is one piece people seem fed up with. |
I'm going to help solve your problem. Move to some craphole country with no rules, regulations, and fees and see if you like it better, or if it's safer, or if there is less disease, etc. You may think a lot of these regulations, fees, rules, etc. are oppressive and step on your toes, but most are in place to protect the general public's interest over allowing one person to do as he pleases.
As I said before buy a plot of land way far out in the country and do what you want. Just pay your taxes (which I'm sure you also have a problem with) and no one will ever come looking for you. Those of us that live in neighborhoods much prefer that everyone live within the same constraints, so that your choices don't negatively affect my property value, living conditions, etc. |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 22, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I definitely would love to buy a plot of land out in the country and be able to be off the grid. Right now it isn't feasible, but it may happen at some point. I only have a problem with unjust taxes, like income tax. I have no problem paying excise taxes. _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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Tracktor Soul Rider
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 339 City: Vancouver, WA
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Posted: Sep 22, 2014 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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People who want to be "off the grid" and live in the city/town crack me up. Just like all the idiots keeping chickens & livestock in their front yard....................I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed. However, I live way out in the country............It's not for everyone but in the end it's worth it................... |
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RampageWake Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 2002 City: Houston
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Posted: Sep 22, 2014 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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While I do like getting away from the masses in the city, being "off the grid" has no appeal to me.
My place in the country is pretty remote; we had to make a ~30 mi radio shot with Ubiquiti gear to get the hi-speed internets. Before that all we had was dial-up. Tragic. _________________
Rhawn wrote: | You should have a less retarded friend read over your posts before you hit "Submit"
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RIP M.H.Legge |
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brew Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2778 City: Jackson
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Posted: Sep 22, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Okie Boarder wrote: | I definitely would love to buy a plot of land out in the country and be able to be off the grid. Right now it isn't feasible, but it may happen at some point. I only have a problem with unjust taxes, like income tax. I have no problem paying excise taxes. |
"Unjust" taxes huh? You could have surprised me. |
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Okie Boarder Ladies Man
Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond
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Posted: Sep 24, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Tracktor wrote: | People who want to be "off the grid" and live in the city/town crack me up. Just like all the idiots keeping chickens & livestock in their front yard....................I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed. However, I live way out in the country............It's not for everyone but in the end it's worth it................... |
No kidding...keep the livestock and chickens in the backyard. Duh! _________________ If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular? |
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jason_ssr Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 4054 City: Dallas, Tx
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Posted: Sep 24, 2014 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Makes you wonder how humanity ever survived without government protecting rainwater and waste! _________________ TONA
My avatar is NOT a pic of me! HAHA! |
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brew Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 09 Aug 2005 Posts: 2778 City: Jackson
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Posted: Sep 24, 2014 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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jason_ssr wrote: | Makes you wonder how humanity ever survived without government protecting rainwater and waste! |
There were a lot less people back then along with a lot less other things that come along with people. Take a look around at country's with no oversight / governmental intervention and let me know which one you would like to model the new US after. |
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twitch88 Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Posts: 1247 City: up the hill, ca
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Posted: Sep 24, 2014 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Tracktor wrote: | I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed. |
I'm callin bs on that one. What is your long term plan for food storage? You just gonna go buy ice every week or go to the store to buy food everyday? That is not living sans electricity. We go without electricity for literally weeks at a time during heavy storms and the refrigerator is without a doubt the most important appliance known to man. _________________ I once saw a fork lift pick up a pallet of forks, it was way too literal for me. |
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fish6942 Addict
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 603
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 5:07 am Post subject: |
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twitch88 wrote: | Tracktor wrote: | I live about as close to off the grid without cutting electricity which we could live without if/when needed. |
I'm callin bs on that one. What is your long term plan for food storage? You just gonna go buy ice every week or go to the store to buy food everyday? That is not living sans electricity. We go without electricity for literally weeks at a time during heavy storms and the refrigerator is without a doubt the most important appliance known to man. |
I don't know about him, but I typically have enough fresh gas to live off of generator power for up to 3 weeks or so. Granted, that is with running the generator at a fairly low duty cycle. |
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RampageWake Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Posts: 2002 City: Houston
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 5:08 am Post subject: |
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<prepper>Propane powered fridge -- we have (4) 500 gallon propane tanks and 170,000 rounds of 5.56 </prepper> _________________
Rhawn wrote: | You should have a less retarded friend read over your posts before you hit "Submit"
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RIP M.H.Legge |
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jason_ssr Wakeboarder.com Freak
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 4054 City: Dallas, Tx
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 7:28 am Post subject: |
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brew wrote: | jason_ssr wrote: | Makes you wonder how humanity ever survived without government protecting rainwater and waste! |
There were a lot less people back then along with a lot less other things that come along with people. Take a look around at country's with no oversight / governmental intervention and let me know which one you would like to model the new US after. |
You think the US got where it is modelling itself after other countries?
Man has collected rainwater for centuries, and done so in dense population. My dad has it at his house right now. He puts no effort into it. It rains, it fills up 1000gal tank. Never had an issue.
I never had city sewage growing up. I seemed to have survived. You flush and it goes to a tank. As it reaches a certain level, gravity sends it out field lines into, get this, THE GROUND! The very same ground my water well was dug into!!! CRAZY, RIGHT? How did we ever make it?
Alarmists always make something out of nothing. _________________ TONA
My avatar is NOT a pic of me! HAHA! |
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eeven73 PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 5377 City: Halfway
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 7:53 am Post subject: |
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^this is the stupidest thing you have ever written.
Look I am no fan of big gov't but, come on. You dont think there is a scientific reality to ground water polution by over used septic systems. There is a finite limit to population density without modern sewage processing, which all suburban areas are well beyond. _________________ Is President Obama a Keynesian? |
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chavez Ladies Man
Joined: 22 Sep 2003 Posts: 27375 City: Roseville
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 8:29 am Post subject: |
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eeven73 wrote: | ^this is the stupidest thing you have ever written.
Look I am no fan of big gov't but, come on. You dont think there is a scientific reality to ground water polution by over used septic systems. There is a finite limit to population density without modern sewage processing, which all suburban areas are well beyond. |
Which is why the systems in Bermuda I mentioned earlier have had to go to rain collection instead of wells. The water is down there... it's just not fit for human consumption.
TL;DR: EWWWWW _________________
Quote: | That's Mr. Gingermex to you a$$hole. |
RIP MHL 04/25/1958 - 01/11/2006 |
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LFADAM PityDaFool Who Posts This Much
Joined: 25 Aug 2003 Posts: 5283 City: New York City
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 9:29 am Post subject: |
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jason_ssr, you do know that there are very strict rules for how close a well can be to a septic drain field? They have to be quite far apart to not contaminate your well or your neighbor's well or even a nearby waterway. You could never have septic systems in an urban area and not contaminate the groundwater. |
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vette74 Wakeboarder.Commie
Joined: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 2144 City: Houston
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: |
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LFADAM wrote: | jason_ssr, you do know that there are very strict rules for how close a well can be to a septic drain field? They have to be quite far apart to not contaminate your well or your neighbor's well or even a nearby waterway. You could never have septic systems in an urban area and not contaminate the groundwater. |
In Texas it is 100' away or 50' if it is incased in concrete. _________________ There'll be two dates on your tombstone/ And all your friends will read 'em/ But all that's gonna matter is that little dash between 'em... |
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jryoung Ladies Man
Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 7664 City: Man Jose
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Posted: Sep 25, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: |
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Just in case anyone here is looking at solar hit me up. Don't make the mistake Chavez did by going with Elon. _________________
Quote: | You don't meet many old vegans. It's mostly young priviliged kids trying to figure out where they stand in the world. | - Steve Rinella |
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