Florida HOA rules

[ontrider]

Just curious if any FL residents can give any insight here. We have some family members who purchased a home in a FL community with a homeowners association. They live down here 6 months a year but just headed home after buying this new house. The HOA is now telling them they have to do an in-person interview before their application can be approved to live in the community. They've offered to do a phone-call or even Skype, but the HOA is refusing... so they will have to fly back down and home just to do a 30 minute interview. This seems absolutely ridiculous.

Does a HOA have any legal grounds to discriminate based on declining an in-person interview? I could understand if you have a criminal record or financially can't afford their fees etc... or declined an interview entirely - but requiring a live interview seems like a little bit of overkill especially considering the circumstances - not to mention the buyers have lived here for years already in another HOA governed community.

[Swass]

Wow. phuck that.

They already purchased the home, correct? How can the HOA prevent them from "living in the community?"

[ontrider]

Yeah exactly... I think these old people have nothing better to do.
I'm not familiar with how real estate transactions work exactly in FL but basically the purchase has all but gone through, the home just hasn't officially "closed" until the end of the month. So I guess "transfer of ownership" of any dwellings is supposed to be approved by the HOA in their bylaws or something. I'm just curious if it's actually enforceable by law. Just because you write up your bylaws, doesn't make them all legal obviously. In fact, it could be argued that the HOA has not made a reasonable effort to accommodate the purchasers. From what I hear of some of these organizations this type of crap is typical.

[STPHNSN23]

i'm no FL attorney, but it sounds legit to me. you don't like the HOA rules? don't buy the place. it seems like something the real estate agent or real estate attorney should have taken care of while they were down there. i'd say their beef should be with their representatives rather than with the HOA.

[Swass]

So, the HOA somehow has a hand in approving the closing on the house??? That sounds utterly preposterous. It would seem to me that the HOA's authority starts AFTER they close, not during or before.

Let's assume for a moment that they have some legal authority to "approve" ownership. Why do they need a 'face to face' interview? To make sure they're the "right color?"

Am am one obstinate mutherphucker. I would spend x2 as much on legal fees to fight this than whatever it would cost to return to Florida for this little meeting.

[ontrider]

[Swass]

HOA "rules" do not trump state law. Or federal law, obviously.

HOAs use intimidation and coersion to enforce their rules. RULES are not LAWS. The first interaction I had with my HOA was a certified letter stating that I have to move my satellite dish to comply with the HOA rules. I said no. They threatened to take me to court. I said go ahead. I never heard from them again.

Speaking to a FL attorney on this matter would be well worth the consultation fee, IMO.

[eeven73]

Sounds to me like you probably have an HOA person with tiny pecker syndrome.

As Swass alluded to I would not believe that a HOA can stop ownership. Otherwise there would be untold number of lawsuits pending one would think.

[STPHNSN23]

ya. if FL law says they can't discriminate based on X and Y factors, the HOA can't go ahead and do that anyway. but if the HOA has rules in place that are not against any FL laws or other applicable rules, why couldn't they enforce them if the current owners in the development had all agreed to them?

[Swass]

Well, what's right doesn't always mean what's legal. This may be one of those cases. Even if I absolutely loved the house, I would have to tell the HOA to pound sand.

[ohsix]

The buyer needs to make the Realtor do their job and answer the questions asked. The Realtor needs to ask an attorney if they don't know the answer. In Texas, the title policy writer typically employs an attorney that should know the answer to your questions. I would guess title policies are similar in Florida. The Realtor and title company should already be in contact.

[Dragonlady8]

Get ahold of Partyb - I believe he's an attorney in FL.

[frye]

I don't know the legality of it but this is common practice when buying a house in FL that has an HOA.

[Suprahunter]

If that's not a wake up call I don't know what is . You haven't even closed and the HOA is already running your life. Get out now if you can.

[nmballa]

Tell them a HOA rep can feel free to jump a flight up north to do the interview.

[Aubs]

partyb is the one you need to talk to.

We had to do the same thing, but typically before you purchase, you have to do an appliation/interview with the HOA before your purchase can even be finalized.

[RampageWake]

Maybe they want to ensure your family are not naggers? A large influx of naggers can ruin the value of a neighborhood quick.

[eeven73]

Ohh.... I get it.

[RampageWake]

P.S. - I would have the HOA make their request/demand in writing, citing the reason a F2F meeting is required and the where the rules and acceptance criteria governing the application are outlined? (e.g. HOA by-laws, etc...)

Whatever by-laws they have do not trump federal fair-housing laws, and these bureaucrats are always itching to assert their authoratiah:
http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp

I'd probably come clean and let them know your ED is a serious disability making you part of a protected class under FHEO, and you will not let them give you a hard time.

[eeven73]

Educational Disability?

[Partyb]

Holy cow, you guys are a bunch of bananas!

As a reminder, I'm an attorney in Florida and even represent HOA's. Anyways, yes, most HOA's have some sort of approval process which you must go through otherwise the transfer is improper and void. It states this in the HOA documents as it does in most all HOA and Condominium documents in this state.

The minor details that are more than likely part of this picture but excluded in this tale include that the contract his parents signed has a provision that they are to receive the documents and review them for a number of days and they can cancel the deal if they do no like them. Additionally, there is probably an HOA approval contingency, like the more familiar mortgage contingency, in the contract as well (if they get denied, they get the deposit back). Either OP didn't read the contract, the parents didn't read it, or the realtor is not very good. This process is typically handled without issue, unless someone waits until the last minute of course. When you become an owner, you are subject to the rules. If you do not like the rules, than don't become an owner. Very simple.

To those of you that know anything about anything, consider it like an easement on the property. The HOA documents are conditions that "run with the land" and all owners must abide by. Again, if you don't like it, don't live there.

That being said, YES, the HOA's and COA's have incredibly strong lobbies and every single legal "thing" is in their favor. AND the Boards of these association have absolutely zero else to do but enforce all the rules. That is the reality. If you fight them, then they add attorney's fees and when you loose you owe those too, then that's an assessment lien, then they foreclose. No, they can not discriminate, etc.,...but that is not this. The clincher is that they are not required to tell you why you are denied.

However, if you just pay your darn dues, and don't mind your house looking like everyone elses...than welcome to HOA living!!

[Okie Boarder]

This thread just further confirms my decision to never live in a place with HOA's and makes me love the idea of country living on my own property even more.

[RampageWake]

[nmballa]

Good thing I'm the president of my HOA. Rule with an iron fist.

[ohsix]

If the HOA does not approve a buyer after whatever selection criteria they choose, and does not give a reason, couldn't that fall under restraint of trade?

[Partyb]

Rampage: Congrats, someone has to hit the lotto and lightning does strike somewhere.

Ohsix, no, absolutely not. It's legit and has been ruled on 5 million times. Just stop. Your wasting a lot of time on a complete non-issue that thousands of people in FL deal with daily without incident. If you don't like the "rule" that there is fire hydrant in front of your house or you can't build a 100 story bldg. on your property, or need to be approved by the HOA to buy a home subject to HOA documents, or your 25 and want to live in a 55+ community, than don't live there or move. It's not restraint of anything.

end thread

[ohsix]

Partyb, I think you've misunderstood my level of concern. I asked a simple question that seems to have struck a nerve with you. I live in a community with an HOA, I pay my dues and have never had a problem with them. It sounds like you have some personal bias in favor of HOAs though.

I am a buyer, developer, and seller of oil and gas properties, so I deal with contracts, transactions, attorneys, and lawsuits daily. The level of certainty you convey in your posts is laughable when taken in the context as advice from an attorney.

[Partyb]

I have absolutely no bias in favor of HOA's, quite the opposite. I frankly detest them and believe, at least in this region wherein my expertise lies, that they have run rampant and out of control because there is no meaningful redress for anyone but the folks with money to burn to fight them at the risk of losing a lot of money and possibly their home. It's quite horrible. In summary, I am biased against them.

I do in fact have a level of certainty on this particular issue in this particular state, but no more I assure you. The only chord that has been struck, and I hesitate to even say that as my level of caring is quite low, is with folks that debate over things they know nothing about on the internet. I'm not going to indulge in it. As you are so good with things legal, it should have been your first thought to read the contract. A vast majority of contracts in Florida are standard "FAR/Bar" forms promulgated by the Bar and the Florida Realtors. That form will state that buyers are to read the documents, and seek approval from the HOA, if necessary. Is it a restraint on trade when an owner retains mineral rights? No, because the buyer does not have to buy.

And let's be clear, I do not give legal advice via the internet or anywhere else where all the facts are not laid out and investigated along with the applicable law. OUR ramblings on this non-wb forum are silly comments made to pass the time for the most part. IF someone actually has a relevant legal question about FL they should contact me at the office, not at a bar, not on a boat, and certainly not on wb.com.

I am absolutely certain that there is nothing wrong with an HOA requiring some type of application process and interview.

Now, would you like me to post a picture of my girlfriend's ass to make it all better?

[Partyb]

You know what, allow me to elaborate. I apologize if my comment was curt, it was not directed towards you, or anyone. I believe it is a symptom of my real frustration with these HOA's. Now OP's situation is quite clear, and easily fixed by just going through the proper process, which is totally legal & legit. I am aggravated in fact because this is what I usually see, often see, hate to see, and am basically powerless to do anything about.

So, a little old widowed lady lives in an association, HOA or COA, it's no matter. She is on a fixed income in the twilight years of her life, widowed typically. Her house is not updated, it is not well-kept, it's orderly but the roof is old, the paint is old, the driveway needs powerwashing. She pays her dues every single month b/c that's what little old ladies do. Now, her trees/shrubs need to be trimmed, her roof needs repairing/fixing/powerwashing and her driveway the same. Here comes Mr. HOA Board Member and sends her a notice of violation; better fix that or we are going to fix it and charge you OR fine you! She does not have 2K to fix/replace the roof, does not have an extra couple hundred bucks to pay someone to powerwash. Now she is fined, now the HOA does the work. They send her the bill. It does not get paid. The dues get paid though, every month. Now they file a lien for repayment of these repair bills and payment of the fines! AND now some attorney's fees! And postage and lien recording fees. Some more time goes on, interest is charged! Eighteen percent here in FL! Now she really can't pay. Now the HOA has to enforce the lien b/c all the Board members are up in arms, the only people that attend monthly meetings also want the coffers replenished. So they vote to enforce the lien. The lawyer is called, he don't care, he is gonna get paid...guaranteed when the house sells at foreclosure! So, they file a foreclosure adding filing fees, search fees, and thousands of dollars in attorney's fees. Can you see where this is going? Little old lady about to get kicked out. TOTALLY legal.

[Nor*Cal]

[jt09]

Partyb - have an e-manhug brah. i appreciated that vent on a couple of different levels.

[Okie Boarder]

Why we aren't kicking HOA's to the curb is beyond me. Partyb's final example should make al our blood boil, IMO.

[jt09]

because people don't want to live next to trailer trash that lowers their property value and overall quality of life.

[STPHNSN23]

and here comes okie to ruin another thread with his nonsense. give it a rest, man. you're exhausting.

[Swass]

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