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Chaparral Xtreme Tow Boats, maybe wave of the future?
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gx205
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PostPosted: Jun 28, 2013 4:02 pm    Post subject: Chaparral Xtreme Tow Boats, maybe wave of the future? Reply with quote

I've been doing a lot of research on a new boat, and came across the Chaparral Xtreme boats, and the more I look and research them, the better they look.

I'm not cutting anyone's boat down, or talking down a v-drive. just saying that here's an I/O that might give them a run for their money.


........and a little extra benefits. Rolling Eyes
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gx205
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PostPosted: Jun 29, 2013 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If any of you get the time check out Chaparral Boats on facebook.

Scroll down the page and you will find three videos comparing their Xtreme Tow Boat vs a Wakeboard boat.

They are even actually wakesurfing behind this I/O.

I know there are always two sides to every story, but they bring up some good points. Like to hear some thoughts from someone else
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FlyZone CR
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PostPosted: Jun 29, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't watch the video but I don't think you can say a thing about it until you drove it and rode behind it.
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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wakesurfing behind an I/O doesn't sound very safe.
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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyZoneCR, I'm not saying anything, I'm asking what other peoples thoughts are.

This site has always been 98% or more pro wakeboarding boats, and an I/O can never match those boats for wakeboarding and wake surfing needs.

These videos bring up some pretty valid points on how I/O sterndrives are an ever changing and updating product, where the inboards are nothing really new in hull/boat design.

Wheeler, I have heard that for years also that wake surfing behind an I/O would be dangerous, but what the video and they will bring up some good points how it's better behind a sterndrive, and actually the propeller wouldn't b that much different than where a inboard is being you would have it trimmed all the way down to create a wake surfing wake. Also no matter which boat you are behind, when you fall it is still going away from you.

I'm posting the videos here for anyone to look at. Hope they work.

AGAIN!!!......I'm not cutting any boat down, nor boasting about these boats. I would just like to hear some unbias thoughts on what this company is saying.

There is always two-sides to every story and I just wondered what some of your actual thoughts were. There are three parts to this entire video:

Part 1:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1027883296327&set=vb.45840758075&type=2&theater


Part 2:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1027961458281&set=vb.45840758075&type=2&theater


Part 3:


https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=1028071021020&set=vb.45840758075&type=2&theater
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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$89K is where I think this boat retails for.

I remember seeing these videos a few years back. Maybe it was when they released the boat in 2011 at the boat shows? The biggest feature they were talking about at the boat show was the reverse steering and how you could control the boat while steering in reverse. And I don't see that as a big deal. I can reverse an inboard without any problems. I thought I saw bob Soven promoting this at one point until Nautique signed him to a contract??

I have not been on one of these but one of our dealers in town does sell them. Next time we have an on the water boat show I will take one out for a spin.

Watching the videos.. The surf wake is not looking that good. It is all crumbled over and I do not see a clean smooth surf wake at all. The wakeboard wake looks ok but it does not look like a real big wake like I have seen on other wakeboard boats.

I really think what you get with this boat is an ok all around family boat that can do a little of everything. wakeboard, tube, wakeskate, and maybe surf(that still scares me with an I/O). Then when you want to increase the wake for wakeboarding or surfing you will probably run into problems not being able to add in extra ballast when you want to create the over the top wake.

At that price range I would pickup an Axis wakeboard boat and slam in the plug and play ballast.

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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flixmaster, nice to hear your thoughts on the boat. I'm looking at a leftover 2011 224 and it is in the low 50K range, and probably can negotiate a little lower, as some of the newer models will be soon coming in making this boat almost 3 years old.

I'm in no hurry though, I'm going to think this all the way through.

My biggest kick about the v-drives, is the ride in choppy weather, which we can get quite often, and not being able to pull up to the beach, as we do that a lot with our family outings. Top speed can really come in handy once in awhile for me also.

I'll agree the backing up the boat thing, doesn't really matter to me that much either. As long as any boat will back away from something that's really all I ever need. I guess maybe it does make docking a little easier.

Thanks for your thoughts!! That's all I'm asking for
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FlyZone CR
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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi gx205, no worries, I'm not saying anything (bad) either, not bashing those boats or anything.
If you're interested in buying one and you can get a good deal and it fits your needs go for it and enjoy the fck out of it! You don't need an inboard to have fun. But the only way to see if it fits your needs is to go out and drive one and ride behind it (plus, if you have a chance do the same with some inboards).

When they say that wakesurfing is "better behind a sterndrive, and actually the propeller wouldn't b that much different than where a inboard is" I am ehmmm 'intrigued'. I have a pretty slow connection so let me know in which of the 3 video's they state that. Would like to check that out.

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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyZoneCR, It's in the second video where they talk about wake surfing, and they say that since the engines exhaust comes out the stern drive, that they are no chances for any gas fume "back gasses", plus they are saying because you can adjust the angle of the trim you don't have to load the boat with people on a certain side.

It was just my thought that the prop would be down near the bottom of the boat which would make it not that far from where an inboard would be, although I realize an inboard is completely under the boat. Plus I was thinking the boat is moving so even if you fell close to the boat, the boat is still moving away from you so it would be hard to be in any danger.

Thanks for your response! I'm definitely keeping an open mind
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FlyZone CR
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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to watch the video but after 5 minutes I'm at 19 seconds...Shocked I'll give it another try a bit later.
Re: trim and not having to load up one side - don't think so cause using the trim might sink the back a bit, but you'll still need ballast on one side to create a surf wave. Unless it's so huge that you can surf both sides at the same time. Gonna have to see the vid.
Re: distance to prop - BS. Yes the boat will be moving away, so the odds of getting caught in the prop are minimal, but the possibility is there.
[edit:]
Here's a link what can happen when surfing behind an I/O (WARNING: graphic content! Don't click if you don't want to see something gross) http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/222693.jpg
[/edit]
Every inch the prop is further away might save you from that ^. And there's quite a few inches difference between an inboard and I/O.

Anyway, that's a lot of talk about surfing, though most people surf less than 10% off the time. More important for some than for others.
Will watch the video later and if there's something there that'll change my mind I'll report back!

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Last edited by FlyZone CR on Jul 01, 2013 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Jun 30, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would still be very hard to get me to wakesurf behind an I/O even with that large platform. of course it does have some features that might work for you instead of a wakeboard boat like the choppy water. A bigger 24ft sz boat might also do the trick with the chop. My suggestion is always to demo all kinds of stuff to see what will work best for you. If that means taking out a few different style boats then go for it. Dealers that want to earn your business should be able to get you out in in a few different models if they want to sell you a boat. Some Chaparral dealers also sell Inboards so do a back to back on both types of boats.
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PostPosted: Jul 01, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we get that pic taken down? Lot of kids on here who do not need to see that.
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PostPosted: Jul 01, 2013 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brit Rider wrote:
Can we get that pic taken down? Lot of kids on here who do not need to see that.

agreed Shocked

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PostPosted: Jul 01, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And i imagine people like me who don't care to see that on a Monday morning. Unnecessary.
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PostPosted: Jul 01, 2013 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry folks. Edited.
Reason for posting was that it illustrates the point of importance of sufficient distance to prop pretty well. So it might change someone's mind about surfing behind an I/O and so might save someone from disaster.
But I agree it could have been done a bit more subtle. Wink

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PostPosted: Jul 01, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear ya and agree 1000%. But next time maybe put a link to that with a NSFL tag or something. Just give people fair warning.


I'm pretty good with gore and stuff but it's unsettling when you're not expecting to come across it, haha.
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PostPosted: Jul 01, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyZoneCR was that picture of the mangled hand from wake surfing or just a terrible accident?

If it wasn't from wake surfing then it was useless in my opinion. In 2001 I was burnt over 38% of my body with massive 3rd degree burns on both legs that would have easily equaled that picture. Over 10 years later, still have to baby sunscreen on them when I'm on a boat or water, and still have a lot of pain and problems with them. Forgot to mention no hair on either of them either.

This was from a routine job that was done daily using gasoline, but this one time things went haywire. it was a leaking valve that caused it.

My point is there are plenty of things most of us do everyday that can turn around and bite us. like riding a motorcycle, but unless it's something that happens regularly/or everytime, then in my opinion it's irrelavent. Confused
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PostPosted: Jul 01, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear about your accident. Glad you survived it!

gx205 wrote:
FlyZoneCR was that picture of the mangled hand from wake surfing or just a terrible accident?

If it wasn't from wake surfing then it was useless in my opinion.


It was both; a terrible wakesurfing accident. Very relevant when choosing a boat you want to use for wakesurfing. Don't wakesurf behind an I/O.

So where are you in the process? Already tested the Chaparal and some other boats?

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PostPosted: Jul 02, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyZone, yes I survived my accident, and will never forget it! Funny how life is though, it happened in early June that year and then I was in the hospital until almost August, then went home for months and months of rehab. While I was recovering, half feeling sorry for myself, and being down(which isn't me), all I could do was basically watch TV. About 2 months into this deal I see on a talk show a survivor of the pentagon destruction, and see a man who's face is so badly burnt that even his own 2 year old child didn't recognize her own dad, not counting the rest of his body that was burnt. Made my injuries look, minor!! Made me change my attitude ASAP!!

Back to the boats:

I went down to a dealer that sells Tige' boats and checked them out, and they had a used MasterCraft there.

The Tige was a Z!, and I'm not sure what the MasterCraft was but they said it was a 2007 model. Both were V-Drives.

My first question is all of those type boats that short as far as depth? The driver's seat didn't feel too bad, but if I sat upright on the passenger seats I felt like my knees were in my chest and I'm just at 6' 1" tall.

Also neither one of these boats had any storage in the bow? Is this normal also?

Still looking and thinking. my closest dealer doesn't have a Chaparral xtreme boat in stock, but to be honest by looking at other Chaparral boats that he does have the fit and finish is right up there or above any thing else I have looked at so far. he even told me the xtreme hull has carbon fiber in it, for added strength and less weight.

Only time will tell
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PostPosted: Jul 02, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gx205 wrote:


My biggest kick about the v-drives, is the ride in choppy weather, which we can get quite often, and not being able to pull up to the beach, as we do that a lot with our family outings. Top speed can really come in handy once in awhile for me also.

I'll agree the backing up the boat thing, doesn't really matter to me that much either. As long as any boat will back away from something that's really all I ever need. I guess maybe it does make docking a little easier.

Thanks for your thoughts!! That's all I'm asking for

Choppy water I'll give you, if I was crossing a big lake I'd tuck in behind another boat to break up the chop. I'm not sure who told you that you can't beach an inboard, I've done it hundreds of times. As for top speed most inboards will run in the low to mid 40's with the ballast empty, how fast are you looking to go? Backing an inboard up does take some getting used to but once you figure it out it's not a problem.

As for the Chapparral, I rode behind one a few years ago, the wake has decent size but was very soft. Like most I/Os it was overly sensitive to the weight being balanced to keep the wake somewhat clean on both sides. That's the trade off you make for a better choppy water ride, the deep V of an I/O it harder to balance. Overall it's just another I/O with a tower and a fancy marketing plan. Might be the right boat for some people, if you want a serious wakeboard boat it's not the boat you want. If wakeboarding is 3rd or 4th or lower on your list of things to do with the boat than maybe it's ok. The real deal breaker is the price, the market is littered with I/Os and they don't hold their value at all, compare 4 and 5 year old values with inboards and you'll see inboards blow them away in the resale department, it's not even close.

Finally, you're nuts to surf behind an I/O regardless of platform size, that picture tells all of that story.
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PostPosted: Jul 02, 2013 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ridininmd, I'll just agree to disagree with you on saying an I/O doesn't hold their value very good. If it's a quality I/O like Chaparral, Sea Ray, Regal, etc. to name a few they hold their value quite well.

Did you ride behind a Chaparral Xtreme??, it's a little more than an I/O with a tower and marketing plan. The Xtreme series has trim tabs and ballast, plus a lot of other nice features..perfect pass, wetsounds, etc.

It's pretty clear you pro inboards and nothing else. That's fine that's your opinion. I'm just deciding and hoping for good unbiased discussions on the pros and cons.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts
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PostPosted: Jul 02, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did ride behind the Xtreme, my review of it is accurate. I'm not pro inboards and nothing else, as I mentioned in comments this boat is fine for someone who wants to wakeboard while on the water but having the best wake isn't their main priority. But to compare the wake on this boat to a purpose built V-drive is laughable.
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PostPosted: Jul 02, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ridininmd, if you were behind an Xtreme then that's good to hear, BUT that's exactly opposite of what I just heard today.

A friend of mine who has a boat that he keeps at a lake in PA, was telling me they just had a wakeboarding contest over this past weekend.

He said they had some demo boats out after the tournament, and a few of the wakeboarders were testing them. he told me he thought one of the boats was a Chaparral. One of the wakeboarders who finished second in the event is the nephew of his good friend there.

He made a few calls, and got the wakeboarder to call me today. He said it was an Xtreme, and he was quite surprised at how good the wake was. He told me he had no problem pulling off the same tricks he did in the tournament.

He told me his family owns a Malibu, and he really likes that boat also.

So there I am two people and two different stories....back to square one?
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PostPosted: Jul 03, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gx205, what's your angle on this, why do you give a crap?
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PostPosted: Jul 03, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gx205 you're starting to sound more and more like a sales rep for Chaparal.
You asked for opinions, you got one from someone that actually rode behind it, then you say "It's pretty clear you pro inboards and nothing else. That's fine that's your opinion. I'm just deciding and hoping for good unbiased discussions on the pros and cons. ".
Someone else you're saying had a different opinion. Of course, different people will have different opinions.
If you're not affiliated to Chaparal and just want confirmation you're making the right choice when buying this boat... you probably won't find it here. Unless, like ridininmd said wakeboarding is #3 or lower on your priority list.
I'd say if you want that boat, buy it! And report back how the wake is and how you like it.

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PostPosted: Jul 03, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyZone, it looks like your right, I may as well give up. If I'm looking like the bad guy or a sales rep, that was never my intention, because I can assure you I'm not.

I personally just thought some things change in time, and maybe I would get people's thoughts on what this boat is compared to other boats. As I am going to be buying a new boat.

I only told ridininmd that, because he said this boat was simply a standard I/O with a wakeboard tower and a good marketing plan. I don't agree with that as I stated because it has ballast, trim tabs, wetsounds, and perfect pass. he's got his opinion, I got mine.

I have no idea what Wakebrad is talking about, so I didn't even respond to him.

I stated from my first post that I didn't want to cut any boat down and I don't think I have.


I guess I'll keep looking at boats and keep to myself? I didn't go to the Chaparral forum, or the Malibu forum, or the Sea Ray forum, or MasterCraft forum, etc. asking questions, because I was sure then I would get bias answers per each forum.

I guess now I understand this wasn't the place to ask for any advice, On any boat that isn't an inboard? Didn't realize that. Embarassed

Sorry some of you felt you had to "judge me", and make accusasions. If it will help my credibility I'm a house builder from Virginia, and the lake I use is a hugh lake on the border of VA/NC called John Kerr Lake. It's got over 800 miles of shoreline and is a beautiful lake, but can become choppy at times on windy days. This is why I was asking some questions.

I've said my piece I will stop now. Confused
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PostPosted: Jul 03, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to realize you posted your question on a wakeboarding forum. I've owned two i/o before i started down the v drive route. The i/ o's were good boats. You can board behind them, ski, tube, cruise ect ect but i would never surf. I have no idea about the chaparrals sure it might come with a tower and a ballast system, but so do lots of "wakeboard" boats that doesnt mean it's any good. I can tell you some wakeboard boats are much better to board and surf behind then others. Vdrives will in general feel much more solid and will hold speed ssssssooooooooo much better than the i/o.

Honestly if you were going to spend 50, 70, 90k on an i/o to primarily wakeboard your wasting your money. Drive and ride behind both kinds and you will notice a big difference. 50k will buy you a very nice vdrive that you can board behind. Iwas in the same boat as you years ago thinking how much better can the really be. I'm on my fifth v- drive now and i've never looked at another i/o since.

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PostPosted: Jul 03, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bambamski, thanks for your thoughts.

Like I posted I'm going to give up asking for any advice as it looks like this place becomes more of a verbal assault group.

I do like the idea of a V-drive, but I've heard they aren't a good boat to cruise in, nor run in choppy waters. Didn't know if all of this was true, so I was trying to get some input. I was told you cannot beach an inboard without taking a great risk of tearing up the prop. I was just trying to get some pros and cons.

I ran across Chaparral, and then saw their videos and I thought they made some valid points. So I thought I might get some honest opinions.

my number one priority is not wakeboarding. My missus and I like to take nice long boat rides listening to music. we pack the boat with friends and families and ride over to another town on our lake and get out and take in some lunch while the ladies shop and just have fun. If the water is smooth, then my son, my nieces, and nephews will get me to pull them tubing, skiing, and wakeboarding. I just want a good overall boat.
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PostPosted: Jul 05, 2013 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What's your angle on this"
ding ding ding.

You lost me at "Wave of the future"
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PostPosted: Jul 07, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why were you looking at an inboard to begin with ? Why did you post on a wakeboard forum? You ask a group of wakeboarders what they think of a Fakewake IO and then you get offended when they tell you what you dont want to hear? Your list of priorities are well suited for a IO runabout not a wakeboat. Try posting this thread in the Chaparral forum I'm sure you will get the favorable comments you are looking for there.
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PostPosted: Jul 09, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suprahunter, What's it to you? why do you even respond? What's your angle? etc.

Get real!! Some of you guys are a piece of work. Where did I get offended? Who told me what I didn't want to hear?

I was/am looking for a new boat and trying to leave my options open. I guess this is a crime on this forum.

I was told an inboard will not ride well when a lake is choppy. I was told you do not want to beach an inboard. I noticed that most of the inboards I have looked at, you don't have any leg room in the bow. I was told most inboards will only go 45 mph max on topend. I know there are two sides to every story, so I thought I'd ask.

If anyone got offended it was a couple of you. I never really got any comparisons on anything, just one sided banter.

I never once disrespect, judged, or accused anyone on here, it's a shame I didn't get the same respect.

So thanks to a few of you guys I am now the OFFICIAL "Chapparal marketing/sales rep, I/O president of the year, Class A contractor from Virginia, lying deceptive man of the hour!" Never knew I was so important.

Thanks!!! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Jul 09, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

''my number one priority is not wakeboarding. My missus and I like to take nice long boat rides listening to music. we pack the boat with friends and families and ride over to another town on our lake and get out and take in some lunch while the ladies shop and just have fun. If the water is smooth, then my son, my nieces, and nephews will get me to pull them tubing, skiing, and wakeboarding. I just want a good overall boat''

OK If I were looking for a new boat My number one priority would be wakeboarding, Wakesurfing and Skiing. The only long rides I take are to get to smooth water I do listen to music. I prefer a smaller crew 4-6 peeps if I am going to another town I trailer the boat and launch there gas costs too much to travel by boat. I never shop while boating, If the water is smooth we wakeboard and ski until the IOs and Waverunners come out and trash the water pulling tubes and doing power turns.
I want a boat that pulls hard without pointing its noise so high the driver has to stand to see where he is going. It also needs to keep a reliable steady speed and track straight. It must have the ability to make a clean wake to perform the water sports we do . It must also be SAFE for wakesurfing.

Now look at your priorities and then mine . You are on the right track with the Chaparral you might also want to check out Cobalt and Regal they also make runabouts that have the look of a wakeboat . Don't buy a Vdrive or inboard unless your priorities change you won't be happy with it.
Good luck with your purchase post a pic when you get it.
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fd2blk
Criminal
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Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Jul 10, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts since I live on the coast and do all my boating in the inter-coastal waterway. There is no way I could live with an inboard since I have to travel through the Charleston Harbor with 2-3 ft chop at least twice a month that would be absolutely miserable with an inboard, and not really all that safe. So I have a 19' Outboard Dual Console with a DIY tower. Another reason I chose my boat over the Moomba I was looking at was I am not a big fan of inboards or for Saltwater use.

Perhaps you should have asked if you prefer an I/O is this the best wake boat for an I/O boat and is it that much better than a the other I/O boats out there?

If rough waters are a concern then most inboards are a not a good choice
If you want the best wake an I/O is not the best choice
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Wakebrad
Ladies Man
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Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 12257
City: Dallas

PostPosted: Jul 10, 2013 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gx205, did you come here to inform us or ask our advice? If you know more than we do about this vs a V-drive then enlighten us. If you are asking our advice, listen to it.

Most of the people on this forum have spent a ton of time on I/Os, DDs, V-drives. They all have their advantages historically. What you and this video seen to be contending is that Chaparral changed the game somehow and is now competing at the top levels of wakeboarding and surfing, a category they were never known for.

My first question is how. Did they patent some new idea that other i/o's don't have? Did they develop some intense new hull design? The first video answers that question, "it's the stern drive and the deep-V shaped hull." Well no stuff Sherlock, every runabout has a stern drive and a deep-V shaped hull. What they just said was they did nothing revolutionary. This immediately becomes a marketing spiel.

Then I saw this wake that's supposed to have been developed from scratch, specifically for wakeboarding. The wake was crap. Seriously, the '92 Sport Nautique had a better wake with no ballast in the boat. End of discussion. This is a run of the mill I/O with some wakeboarding accessories and a marketing scheme designed to sell to the uninformed. Go to a yamaha dealership and ask them about wakeboarding behind their jetboats. See if the sales pitch sounds exactly the same. Then go try them all on the water.

The funny thing is I actually used to ride behind a Chaparral back in '01, '02, and it actually threw a pretty decent wake, much better than what I have seen from this video. I remember it being a good boat. But don't claim it is going to revolutionize the industry when they have done nothing new and there is no evidence that they even tried. Things have come a long way since 2002 and wakeboat manufacturers have been designing their boats specifically for wakeboarding, as their largest market now, for at least the last decade. If you want a boat primarily for wakeboarding or surfing, a V-Drive is your answer.

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buckthis
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Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1058
City: Orlando

PostPosted: Jul 10, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

" This is a run of the mill I/O with some wakeboarding accessories and a marketing scheme designed to sell to the uninformed."
+1

I will never own an I/O piece of crap ever again and my POS I/O was a 24ft four winns with a full camper top! traded it in for a 20ft malibu reaponse and never regretted the decision for one second! Was the I/O better in reverse, yes, did it go in depths of water 12", yes, did I pull it up on the beach, sure, I don't care, the inboards are more dependable, perform better, have a better wake, much easier to do maintenance on, hold their value better, surfable, and you always have people that want to ride or surf behind your boat, I/O not so much. I will never own an I/O again! Good luck on your decision.

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