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Budget Wake Boat Breakdown FAQ

 
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boardersdad
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PostPosted: May 13, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Budget Wake Boat Breakdown FAQ Reply with quote

Hello all,

First, I must say that the "Budget Wake Boat Breakdown Chart" is an amazing gathering of information for people looking into this. It's not common to come across something as helpful and well presented as that chart, and the discussion about it. Thank you!

I have a few questions about budget wake boats. I've read through many of the posts on many of the forums in the index here, and I think you folks have the experience and knowledge to provide great answers. I think these may be questions that a lot of people would have when looking to buy a budget wake boat, which is very likely their first wake boat purchase. (I would've posted this to the "Budget Wake Boat Breakdown Chart" thread, but it's already locked; btw, it seems that the prices in that chart are still very accurate as of 2013.)

A bit about our situation: I would love to find a budget wake boat for my 14 year old son. He's ready for a bigger wake and this would be a great pastime for him and his friends. I would operate the boat for the first few years until he became capable. He's been boating pretty much since he was born.

Based on the chart and a lot of websurfing, I've found the 1982-1989 Correct Craft Ski Nautique 2001 to be a reasonable entry point. I'll use the SN2001 as the subject in questions below, but please expand your thoughts to the other boats in the chart. Thanks.


QUESTIONS ABOUT BUDGET WAKE BOATS
(please answer by question number in your replies; thanks)

1. BALLAST -- Do the SN2001 and others need ballast (fat sacs or other weight) to provide adequate wake (do most people run extra ballast), and what specific ballast solutions would you recommend?

2. TOWER VS. PYLON -- A wake tower is an accessory that may need to be added later. How would you compare boarding behind a tower vs. the old style pylons? Also, it wouldn't hurt to include your suggestions based on experience, e.g. Monster, FCT, etc.

3. DRAFT -- Many of us looking into our first wake boat do not have experience with a direct drive inboard. How much do the SN2001 and others draft, and is prop damage a lot more common than with an I/O sterndrive?

4. BOAT RIDE QUALITY -- I've read that some of these smaller direct drive boats can give a rough ride in the boat, but others say just keep some weight in the nose and the ride is great; thoughts on this?

5. GELCOAT -- Some of these older boats have moderately or severely oxidized gelcoats. How hard is it, and how successful is it, to use the various buffing restorers to get the SN2001 and other gelcoats looking good? (There are many sources that discuss this online, but I'm looking for information specific to these wake boat models, and for your experience with this.)

6. DECALS -- I've read that some of the early models had the graphics painted rather than on decals; any clarifications on this, and how hard is it to remove old decals and install new ones?

7. WOODEN STRINGERS -- There is much discussion online about the early SN2001 models needing to be checked for wooden stringer rot (and soft spots in the floor). How commonly have you heard of or seen this problem on the SN2001 or other boats?

8. PULLING ENGINE -- A direct drive inboard engine, located in the center of the boat, would appear to be very easy to pull for repairs. Can any of you shed some light on how involved this is for the SN2001 and others? For comparison, what about pulling a V-drive engine?

edit 2013-05-16 to add #9:

9. SLALOM -- While I'm looking mainly for a wake boat, how do these budget boats rate for pulling slalom skiers? For example, I've read in several forums that the SN2001 was a "lousy ski boat that turned out to be a fantastic wakeboard boat"... why would it be a lousy ski boat? Seems like a great all-around water sports (ski/wake/tube) boat to me.


Any questions I missed?

Thank you in advance.

Steve


Here is Erik's chart for reference:



(note: edited to add chart)


Last edited by boardersdad on Jun 18, 2013 4:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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FlyZone CR
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PostPosted: May 13, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Budget Wake Boat Breakdown FAQ Reply with quote

Sorry, I'm really tired so I'm going to keep it short. Any questions just shoot and I'd be happy to elaborate some more tomorrow. I've owned an '85 2001 for about 5 years now, it has 2100 hours on it.

boardersdad wrote:


1. BALLAST

2. TOWER VS. PYLON -

3. DRAFT

4. BOAT RIDE QUALITY

5. GELCOAT -

6. DECALS

7. WOODEN STRINGERS --

8. PULLING ENGINE --

Any questions I missed?

Thank you in advance.

Steve


1 Yes you'll probably want to run some extra ballast. Unless you have 6 heavy guys in the boat. Then again stock is really nice already. Also depends on how much water you're carrying along in your floor. Wink
1 540lbs bag in the back, or 2 besides the engine work really well. I always have 100lbs of lead under the bow.

2 Tower to clean up the interior of your boat (boardracks). Monster is popular but looks terrible on a 2001. The curved tower doesn't go well with the straight classic lines of the 2001. Imo. FCT or New Dimensions' FCT copy is the way to go. The Razor by I forgot which brand looks also pretty good.

3 Don't worry about it, no more problems than I/O.

4 If you're on a big lake with big waves consider another boat (barefoot nautique possibly?).

5 Oxidation is no problem, wetsanding/buffing/polishing will take care of that. Some though (like mine, unfortunately) have blisters. Some don't.

6 yep up to '84 I think they were painted, after that stickers. Stickers aren't that hard to change. Either way just cosmetics so the least of your "problems" (see 7).

7 ALL 2001's will run into this problem sooner or later if the floor and stringers weren't changed. You can do a rebuild yourself when necessary for about 3.5K in materials if I'm correct. Correctcraftfan.com's forum is your best friend!

8 Not exactly sure about pulling the engine, but working on it is indeed much easier with a DD. Under normal circumstances you won't pull it very often (if ever) anyway.

Definitely check CCfan if you're really interested in a 2001. I think they're fantastic boats; built like a tank, great classic lines, basic engine (easy maintenance), superb wake of course, economical, no need for a huge truck to pull it, etc etc.
That being said, if I had the funds to upgrade to a Super Sport or Super Air.... Great starter boat though!

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jtryon
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PostPosted: May 14, 2013 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. BALLAST -- Two 540's on either side of the engine will make a great wake.

3. DRAFT -- Just be more careful driving, knowing that if you come up on a rock pile you can't raise the motor/prop like on an outboard. I have a Supra Sunsport which is bigger than a 2001 and have been in 3' often with no issues. 2' of water is where you start to stir up dirt and would worry about the prop.

4. BOAT RIDE QUALITY -- You could consider one of the other bigger boats on that list if this is a concern. My Sunsport handles rough water pretty well with the higher freeboard.

7. WOODEN STRINGERS -- Very common issue. For peace of mind, wait around for a boat with rebuilt stringers so you can have years of trouble-free riding.

8. PULLING ENGINE -- Pretty easy with the right lift. Disconnect the driveshaft coupler, front motor mounts and rear tranny mounts, couple hoses and wires, and she'll come out. I'd imagine a V-drive is more involved but can't speak from experience.

My "other" comments are to get a price you feel comfortable with and start looking around a couple months before you're ready to buy. You'll get a good idea for the market and when you see a good deal, you'll know it and can jump on it. Don't be afraid to drive a few hours for the right deal (I drove 7 each way). Keep an open mind...think about how many of your son's friend are going to want to be on the boat with him, will seating for 6 be enough? If not, you may want to think about an early 90's model (Excel?) with the open bow, or another one of the budget boats with an open bow. The more you research, the better you'll feel about the boat you end up buying.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: May 14, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out this thread: http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=24325&highlight=nautique+2001

I've seen some good prices on Nautique Excels and even a '95 Sport Nautique that needed some work for under $7K.

That said you can't go wrong with a 2001.

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PostPosted: May 15, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. Lots of good info!

Nor*Cal, thanks for the link. A lot of nice boats (drool) and some good pics on pulling the engine.

FlyZone & jtryon...

Thanks for the numbers on ballast and draft. What kind of lead goes in the bow, bags of shot or something cast?

I like the idea of a tower but it may come awhile after a boat due to cost. Is there much difference for the boarder (maybe the towers are a little higher)?

Interesting comment about carrying water in the floor--I read somewhere to consider weighing the boat to see just how much is really in there... does anyone do that?

We won't be on big water, so based on your comments ride quality won't be an issue.

I'm glad to hear the oxidation can be dealt with without too much trouble. Time isn't an issue--that will be my son's job. If the graphics were painted on and the paint is worn, do people usually move to decals?

Yes, the stringers are my biggest concern. Wow, $3.5k in materials... I do not do fiberglass (hate that work), so even worse. Almost enough to make me look for 1993 or later, but the prices get awfully steep.

On checking the stringer condition, I saw this online:

Quote:
Open the engine cover, and you'll notice hex-head bolts, probably about 4 on each side, running parallel to the engine on the edge of the floor, on the edge of the engine compartment. These are lag bolts screwed right into the wooden stringers. Bring a socket wrench with you and try to tighten each one. They should still bite into the wood well. If they spin freely, the boat probably has some deterioration of the wood in the stringers. These bolts also continue to the back of the boat under a removable floor piece that covers the prop shaft. Spin those also. Engine mount bolts are also a good indicator, as these attach to wooden mounts as well. Walk around on the floor and feel for soft spots. This isn't as big a deal as the stringers, but is still a big job to fix.


Do you think the bolt tightening is a good test to check for stringer rot? If not... how to check? One person told me that the stringers will get soft with age--which sounds like rot to me. Is it obvious when to change them out?

I don't think souls aboard will be a big issue. We have a large pontoon boat that will typically be along (party central). It has a 140 I/O that I've done a ton of work on, and learned a lot.

A later boat would be great, but cost is an issue. It looks like the Excel is a V-drive, and I've had my fill of working on the I/O engine down in a bilge. The direct drive set up with the doghouse looks fantastic for easier maintenance.

I've been watching the market online for a couple of months or so. I see the usual (cars, trucks, boats)--some people think what they own is worth twice what others think it's worth. But some have realistic values posted. I do get the sense that in general SN2001 prices have gone up over the last 5 to 10 years, although there are still boats down in the $5k or less range. But they are 30 years old now, and those wooden stringers.....

Thanks.

Steve
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PostPosted: May 15, 2013 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I'm using a tractor weight in the bow.
Rider and driver won't notice any difference between a tower and extended pylon. I'd just try to find a boat that already has a tower. If not, no big deal.
Yes you could weight the boat to figure out how much water is in the foam, but you'd have to know how much it should be without water. If I remember correctly the boat with standard trailer was 2300 lbs. I could be totally wrong though. The reference section on CCFan has all the brochures, it's probably in there somewhere.

Even is stringers/floor are bad, it doesn't mean you'll have to do all the work immediately. Depends how bad it is of course. Yes the bolt-test is a good one, but spider cracks in the hull at and around floor height also give it away.
Also keep an eye out for Sport Nautiques (DD too). Last week there was one online ('93 or newer) that seemed in really good shape for less than 8K. Can't find it right now, it must have sold within a couple days. But they're out there.

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PostPosted: May 16, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with FlyZone's last point. The best tip I can give is to have cash and be ready to drive for the right deal. My buddy missed out on a cherry 2001 last Fall with FC tower, perfect pass, rebuilt trailer, garaged its whole life for $3000 because the seller was getting out of the sport, all because he waited an extra weekend to go look at it. It was gone by then and haven't found nearly as nice boats since. You will see those bargains pop up, just know what to look for and don't take newer, fiberglass-stringered boats out of the equation either. Someone on another site posted a Super Sport listed in their area for $12k which may be the deal of a lifetime.
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PostPosted: May 16, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.

First, I've edited my first post to add question #9 about slalom skiing behind these boats.

Here is Erik's chart for reference:


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PostPosted: May 16, 2013 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FlyZone & jtryon, thanks for the info. In our situation, $12k is well beyond our budget. I'm basically looking to add a second family boat in a lousy economy, which bodes well for prices but I still need to come up with the cash... Finding a nice boat for $3k-$4k would be perfect. I'm working on gathering the cash in hand and I'm willing to drive 4 to 8 hours one way for the right deal. We're also willing to do some work on the boat because we're in the low end of the price range. What I'm finding so far in our price range is boats that have bad paint, hence questions #5 and #6. I might even consider a really nice boat with a few mechanical problems, as I am capable of doing the engine work (although I'd rather not take on another project like that). My biggest concern with driving is to get there and find rotten stringers, so I've been pretty up front with sellers that the condition of the stringers is very important to me.

I've run through the craigslist Sport Nautiques and Super Sports and they are just too expensive for now.

FlyZone, what adds up to $3.5k materials for replacing stringers? Seems like just some wood and fiberglass--but I hate fiberglass work so I'm not familiar with costs. I saw a photo history of an SN2001 stringer replacement, omg what a lot of work!

"Spider cracks in the hull at and around floor height" -- That is great info! Are you talking about on the hull interior... can you see the spider cracks without pulling the floorboards...

If there is some water in the foam, what is done about it? Do people live with it, or pull the floorboards and use fans to dry it out followed by some sort of resin coating (I'm assuming the water gets in from the top). Hmmm, by the foam you're talking part of the hull... or are you talking about some of the floorboards?

A tractor weight... one of those lead castings that mounts on the back of a tractor... probably encased in plastic or rubber? I'm curious if it moves around on you or you have it tied down somehow. (yes, I'm getting ahead of myself... find the boat first...)

I really appreciate all the input. I'm hoping this thread can become a good reference for others in my position.

Thanks.

Steve
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PostPosted: May 17, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve,

the spider cracks are visible on the outside, on the exterior of the hull.
I usually see the weights on the front of tractors, but they might also be used on the back of them, I have no idea. They're just lead, no plastic or any other cover. Mine stays perfectly in place with a rock next to it to keep it up straight. Look under the bow of a 2001 and you'll see.
Water in foam; just leave it, until you decide to pull the floor and redo everything. Enjoy the biger wake it gives you Wink
Slalomskiing: for modern standards, with Nautique 196's and 200's around the wake is horrible for skiing. If you're not used to skiing behind that type of boat though, it's a good wake for skiing. Just don't expect to set a new world record behind one.
Cost of material for new floor and stringers: it's just what I (think I) read on CCfan. I might be off on the amount, and I sure don't know what exactly it's all for. There's probably 100 threads there of people who did that job on a 2001 so there's a huuuuge amount of knowledge on that forum about this subject. My boat doesn't need it (yet) so I haven't bothered to read all the details (read: ignoring the fact it'll have to happen some day).
3-4K will probably give you an '82-'84. Nothing wrong with that, interior is a bit nicer though on '85+models. Dash is pretty cool on the older ones though, imo.

Post what you find and we'll let you know what we think!

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PostPosted: May 17, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, cool, thanks. I will spend some time researching CCfan.

I'm going to post some model/year info and a question in a separate post to follow.


FlyZone> "Slalomskiing: for modern standards, with Nautique 196's and 200's around the wake is horrible for skiing. If you're not used to skiing behind that type of boat though, it's a good wake for skiing. Just don't expect to set a new world record behind one."

OK, I am at kind of a loss here--I didn't understand much of that...

The 196 and 200 are more recent models, right?

What would make the wake horrible? (I haven't slalomed in decades... my daughter slaloms now)

Just so I'm clear--I'm not challenging anything you said, I just want to understand what you said! lol
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PostPosted: May 17, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, a little history, and then a question...

From CCfan & planetnautique:

Ski Nautique 2001 History

Hull change years:
'61 (debut)
'70 (2nd Gen)
'82 (2001)
'90 (No Wake Zone)
'93 (no more wooden stringers)
'97 (TSC)
'02 (TSC2)
'06 (TSC3)

70-72 17'6" ( 3 inches shorter)
73-76 17'9" (alum. deflector bar)
77-78 17'9" (moulded rope deflector)
79 17'9" (moulded fwd. vent)
80-81 17'9" (3pc. windshield)
82-86 18'9" (new design 2001)
87-89 18'9" (tilted windshield hump)

87-88 have the split winshield
89 is a flat windshield, same intake vents
88-89 has the curved low profile dash pod

1989 is when the 2001 Hull ended
1990 to 1996 was the "slant back"
1997 to 2001 TSC 1
2002 to 2005 TSC 2
2006 to 2009 TSC 3?
2010 to today 200 Hull


Here is my (latest) question:

Erik's chart starts the SN2001 at 1982. I've seen some earlier SN's (1st/2nd gen, pre-2001) for sale. Is the wake with those early hulls not up to the wakeboarding standard that the other boats in the chart meet?

Thanks, you guys are like a fountain of knowledge on this stuff!

Steve


edit: typo...
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PostPosted: May 17, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I forgot a comma in there.
"for modern standards, with Nautique 196's and 200's around, the wake is horrible for skiing"
Just saying that the ski-wake isn't all that bad, unless you're used to skiing behind the latest slalom-specific boats like those mentioned. If you're skiing recreational, you'll be fine.

The model previous to the 2001 ('70's up to '81) has a steeper wake. Not bad, just not as nice as the 2001.

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PostPosted: Jun 18, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the long delay in posting on here.

THANK YOU for all of your answers!!

We found and have purchased a 1984 Ski Nautique 2001. I have most of the floor out and the engine in pieces (not due to any problems--I just want things "just so" and it's a lot more fun to do this on the driveway than stuck in the middle of a lake). There is no spidercracking in the gel coat (well, ok, one small crack at one edge of the windshield) and all of the stringers that I can see are extremely solid. My son and I are spending a lot of time getting her ready. I will be sure to post pictures in the "share" forum when we get that far.

Thanks again! I hope the information in this thread will be helpful to others looking for their first wake boat. Smile
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PostPosted: Jun 19, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, congrats! Let's see those pics!
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