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Supplements, dieting, weight loss and working out
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pet575
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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2011 1:08 pm    Post subject: Supplements, dieting, weight loss and working out Reply with quote

No, I'm not looking to sell them to anyone here. I'm looking at something to SUPPLEMENT (note the caps for emphasis) my workout program to really cut some fat off my frame. I'm currently training for the STL 1/2 Marathon, which is in April. In addition, I'm doing SimpleFit 3 days a week.

Unlike when I was 19, I'm not seeing the pounds just fly off. I'm probably 25 pounds overweight and my goal in all of this is to not only weigh that but to regain a lot of my muscle tone that I've lost over the years from pretty much neglecting my training program I used to do up until I was about 24. 10 years later, at age 35, I want to make a lifestyle change so that I'm not fighting 25 lb-itis when I'm 40, 45, etc.

Knowing myself and my own psychology, I've got to see some faster results or else I'm not going to make it to April. This is unfortunate, but I just know it is me and the way I think. If I don't start seeing some significant weight loss and toning soon, I'm going to say "F--- IT" and just go back to not trying.

On Saturday, I was at a get-together and ran into an acquaintance who is my age and he recently started using Advocare supplements and looks like he is carved out of a piece of wood. He's been using it for 2 months and has lost 20 pounds by working out along with it. On top of that, he swears by the Spark energy drink that is part of what he is using-stating that it is like a super 5-hour energy boost but no headache, crash, etc. He says it makes him feel like he's 17 again from an energy standpoint and gets him through afternoons in the office and easily into the evening but then no crash once it subsides. He isn't selling the product or anything, so I have no reason to think that his comments to me were anything but an endorsement of the product line. You may be familiar with it as a product endorsed by Drew Brees-although endorsements by anyone except for people I know personally are generally pretty meaningless to me.

I left that get-together thinking THIS is exactly what I'm looking for to use on a very short-term basis to boost my results and then to maintain a healthy lifestyle that is closer to what I was doing at age 24. Though if this Spark drink really is as good as advertised I might continue using only it and some Advocare vitamins once I hit my 25 lb loss goal. I do the 5-hour energy thing in the summertime and have noticed how much it helps without the same crash a Monster or Amp causes later on.

Here's my issue though: I've done TBurn Fat Attack Combo, Metabolife, HydroxyCut, SlimFast, GNC Protein Shakes/Protein Powder, and a few other supplement/weight-loss formulas in the past and I HATE the way they make me feel. Whether it is horrible taste, excessive jitters/shakes or a MASSIVE headache, there has been something about every product I've tried and HATED. I've never been able to get complete use out of these because I had to stop taking them due to how horrible I felt while using them.

I'm not interested in the business part of Advocare and I've done a TON of online research about it since talking to this guy. I'm not really finding a whole lot of "these products don't work" type of info out there. The biggest criticism I've seen thus far is along the lines of either the business model or complaints that the stuff costs too much.

Does anyone know anything about Advocare or have any experience with it?

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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2011 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My really close friend started Advocare several years ago. He had the same story you told. He had lost like 50lbs in 6 months and was ripped. He did start selling it also but what a great testament he had. The price was ridiculous IMO, but if it really works, it must be worth it. I think he was around 40 when he started.
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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2011 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing legal works how it's advertised. ephedra/caffeine(EC) will be better than anything you can buy on the market. It's probably the only thing out there that actually works. It's up to you if you want to take the risk. You can still buy ephedra legally at cvs or wherever, under the guise of bronkaid. There's no need for asprin anymore, you may have heard of the eca stack(ephedra,caffeine,aspirin). That's basically what hydroxycut was years ago before the ephedra ban, now it's just crap in a bottle.

http://hotnfit.com/ecstack

Here's your best bet. Find your caloric maintenance level, eat 1 gram protein for each lb of lean body mass. Fill the rest with healthy fats and carbs. Eat 500 calories under maintenance/day and you'll lose 1 lb fat per week. Eat 1000 calories under maintenance/day and you'll lose 2 lb per week.
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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pet, what do you eat? i've taken my belt in a couple notches over the last few months by just cutting out the crap. knock your carbs way down, and the pudge will go away. check out www.marksdailyapple.com. there's a lot of info about what to eat and what to avoid.

dirtysparks, has it just about right, at least from what i've read (which is admittedly not a lot), most of your calories should come from protein and good fats (animal fats, nuts, seeds). limit your carbs.
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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want the most effective diet?

Like Dirtysparks said, go with EC and run a keto diet. I have cut 18 pounds in three weeks running keto and EC. The beauty about keto is you can purchase ketone sticks and actually test that your are still in ketosis. Keto is basically a Atkins diet. Cut all carbs for two weeks and then slowly add them back in, always keeping them below 60 per day. Couple that with a EC stack and you can cut weight fast. But let me tell you carbs are as addictive as crack. It is really difficult to suppress the hunger for carbs. It is a catabolic diet so if you are training for strength or size you will loose both as you drop the fat.

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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2011 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've started using livestrong.com to track what I eat, workout, etc. I've found it to be helpful. I typically over-input what I eat, to make sure I'm w/in my numbers.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

STPHNSN23 wrote:
pet, what do you eat? i've taken my belt in a couple notches over the last few months by just cutting out the crap. knock your carbs way down, and the pudge will go away. check out www.marksdailyapple.com. there's a lot of info about what to eat and what to avoid.

dirtysparks, has it just about right, at least from what i've read (which is admittedly not a lot), most of your calories should come from protein and good fats (animal fats, nuts, seeds). limit your carbs.



this is the plan i am working following. I am not as strict as this plan, as i still take in dairy products - milk and cheese. Keep it simple. Nothing processed. If it comes in a box or bag, don't eat it. Stick to the outter aisles of the store, as this is usually where all of the fresh (non processed) foods are kept.

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to "cheat" and cut some additional pounds or get a head start the I would look into th HCG protocol from a qualified doctor. Outside of that I would maybe look into food sensitivity testing or genetic testing to determine your ideal diet. As an example my brother had his food sensitivities tested and came up with gluten, he cut it out and dropped 17lbs (he was a fatty to begin with) in 2 weeks. He had instant energy, and felt much better in general. Some of these issues can be what are holding you back. You could be eating very healthy but if you aren't calibrating your diet specifically for you it could be what is holding you back.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to your doc and tell him you can't get it up anymore and have tried all of the pills. He will diagnose you with low T and start you on a legal testosterone supplement. The lack of energy and ability to stay fit are major signs of low T anyhow.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any ethical doctor will just throw test at you without a full panel.

This may be obvious, but a lot of people don't know it, you can't lose weight unless in caloric deficit - besides EC, that's where 1+1=3. EC suppresses appetite but not energy levels, lots of people use it on a cut to minimize muscle loss. 1 lb fat = 3500 calories. There's no supplement on that market that will change that.

If the good doc does give you test, you may as well ask him for Clenbuterol, if it's good enough for Alberto Contador it'll work for you.

nmballa, you've got to have a determined mind to run keto + EC. Nice work.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dropped 37 lbs in 3 months by simply eating right. I didn't count calories, carbs, or fat grams. I did exclude certain high carb foods from my diet like milk, white bread, and other dairy products as well as high sugar foods. I basically ate a lot of grilled chicken, fish, salad (no dressing), and steamed veggies. It's been almost 7 months and I've still kept it off.

I'm 42 and I can tell you that starting around age 35 keeping the weight off gets exponentially harder each year. My wife had always been able to eat what she wanted without gaining weight, but now that she's 36 she is starting to struggle. You just can't continue to eat the same stuff you ate in your 20's. Dieting is fine if you're looking to drop some weight for a specific event, but if you really want to keep it off and make life easier 5 years from now, now is the time to get in the habit of eating right.

In my opinion, counting calories, etc is like telling a crack addict to just keep an eye on how many rocks they smoke. Perhaps it works for some, but I can't have just one slice of pizza and stop because I'm at my calorie count for the day. Instead, it easier if I just eliminate the pizza all together and have some grilled chicken instead. No muss, no fuss!

Since I've lost the weight I will still occasionally eat like crap when I go out for mexican food or something. Heck, a good size margarita can push 1000 calories. The key is to get right back on the healthy food wagon the next day.

Good Luck!

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nauty wrote:

Since I've lost the weight I will still occasionally eat like crap when I go out for mexican food or something. Heck, a good size margarita can push 1000 calories. The key is to get right back on the healthy food wagon the next day.


avoiding a total derailing is the most important part. if you slip up or treat yourself, don't freak out about it. just get back to eating the right stuff tomorrow. (says the guy who just mowed down chipotle for lunch) Laughing
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JR, the HCG diet is a sever calorie deficit diet. The concept is that the HCG will help keep metabolism rolling while you eat next to nothing. In my opinion it's basically anorexia. I would not go this route.

If you feel like taking it to a level where your dancing around the law then clenbuterol is another option like dirtysparks mentioned. I don't think any doctor would prescribe this but you can get it quasi legally. It's a drug intended to treat asthma. Functions much like albuterol but is much more effective for weightloss. To be quite honest unless your a professional bodybuilder I don't think either clen or albuterol is the right answer. If you go this route know that you are messing with your body and there can be repercussions.

Get a low testosterone test. Always test in the a.m., need at least 3 to 4 to confirm low test levels. Testosterone is a very fickle hormone. Stress, lack of sleep, etc. can easily throw it way off. Signs of low test are irritability, weight gain, lack of energy. Also, all the signs of age.

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to "cheat" and cut some additional pounds or get a head start the I would look into th HCG protocol from a qualified doctor. Outside of that I would maybe look into food sensitivity testing or genetic testing to determine your ideal diet. As an example my brother had his food sensitivities tested and came up with gluten, he cut it out and dropped 17lbs (he was a fatty to begin with) in 2 weeks. He had instant energy, and felt much better in general. Some of these issues can be what are holding you back. You could be eating very healthy but if you aren't calibrating your diet specifically for you it could be what is holding you back.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be an @ss, but I'm not asking the question(s) you guys are all answering. I already understand much of what has been thrown out there.

I'm asking about this specific product.

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never taken it, so I can't comment. The supplement industry is cram packed full of know-it-alls, bro-science, and placebo effect so you may as well try it for yourself and see how you like it.


I see vitamins and caffeine. 45 calories from carbs. Nothing real exciting here.
Vitamin A 20%
Vitamin C 300%
Vitamin E 100%
Thiamine 200%
Riboflavin 200%
Niacin 300%
Vitamin B-6 750%
Vitamin B-12 750%
Pantothenic Acid 500%
Zinc 20% <1%
Total Caffeine 120mg
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already have trouble sleeping, can't imagine what these stimulants would do to me.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtysparks wrote:
Never taken it, so I can't comment. The supplement industry is cram packed full of know-it-alls, bro-science, and placebo effect so you may as well try it for yourself and see how you like it.


I see vitamins and caffeine. 45 calories from carbs. Nothing real exciting here.
Vitamin A 20%
Vitamin C 300%
Vitamin E 100%
Thiamine 200%
Riboflavin 200%
Niacin 300%
Vitamin B-6 750%
Vitamin B-12 750%
Pantothenic Acid 500%
Zinc 20% <1%
Total Caffeine 120mg


Sounds like a 5 hour energy to me. Niacin, B-12, caffeine, and vitamins.

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mmmmm energy blend. no established daily value? wtf?

using this you're only going to lose water weight and muscle. and it will be temporary. if you want to get rid of the weight and pudge permanently, change your diet.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are they advertising it to work? What kind of results are you expecting using this supplement? I don't see anything that would indicate faster weight loss or better results. Maybe a little more spunk for your workouts but a multivitamin and cup of coffee would have the same effect.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I'm going for here is the energy boost portion of it more than anything. What I'm really trying to decide on is whether I want to take a crack at the big part of it or just go with the Spark energy drink.

STPHNSN23, doing the right things like eating leaner proteins are definitely a part of my plan but I am feeling run down right now and am seeing a weight loss of less than 4 pounds thus far and I'm a month into the working out/eating right thing.

I'm allowing for the fact that I'm probably putting on some muscle and replacing fat but I'm very frustrated with my results, or lack thereof, thus far. I've been putting off looking into getting a full male panel blood workup done, but I'm starting to think more and more about getting this done in the next week or so. I hate going to the doctor and I know we're going to have the "you need to lose 20 lbs" conversation. All I'm looking for here is a boost for the fat cutting, packaged with doing "the right things" to ensure long term success.

dirtysparks, that is kind of where I've been on this whole deal-trying to figure out what (if anything) this stuff provides that I can't get more cheaply. I've used 5 hour energy in the past year and it works for me.

If this person I know hadn't mentioned it to me, I wouldn't even be looking into this. However, I've known this guy for awhile and I continue to be amazed by how different he looks/acts now v. before using this stuff. If it weren't for my running into him, I'd just be plugging along.

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

STPHNSN23, that is the 5-Hour Energy product's label.
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtysparks, to answer your first question, it looks like the rest of the product line is geared toward more of a vitamin/nutrient supplement system to promote fat burning, weight loss, appetite suppression, etc. As my acquaintance put it, the concept of it is not really a diet or weight loss supplement but rather a wellness supplement to help boost you along with whatever you're already doing.

Maybe he's just regurgitating their marketing stuff but, like I said earlier, he doesn't work for them and I wouldn't be buying anything from him so he's really got no dog in the fight. We're not best friends or anything, but I know him well enough to know he's kind of a no-BS type of guy. I was actually expecting him to give me the "eating good and working out hard" response when I asked him what he had been doing-he's the last guy I expected to say he was "taking a shortcut."

Let's not be mistaken about this whole deal-I'm not sold on it yet, I'm merely on the fence about it due to my current experiences.

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pet575, can you explain what is involved with the 24-day challenge. Do you just use their shakes and supplements or is there other food you're supposed to eat with that program?
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pet575, I would go get the male panel done. If it is low test you can spend all the time working out and not make much headway. If your within normal range maybe another option is look into b-12 shots. Some claim it's a fad, others say it really works.
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I used to get all happy when the girlie would make a colonic appointment. That meant she was going to be breaking out the "fine china" soon.

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PostPosted: Jan 14, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtysparks wrote:
I don't think any ethical doctor will just throw test at you without a full panel.

This may be obvious, but a lot of people don't know it, you can't lose weight unless in caloric deficit - besides EC, that's where 1+1=3. EC suppresses appetite but not energy levels, lots of people use it on a cut to minimize muscle loss. 1 lb fat = 3500 calories. There's no supplement on that market that will change that.

If the good doc does give you test, you may as well ask him for Clenbuterol, if it's good enough for Alberto Contador it'll work for you.

nmballa, you've got to have a determined mind to run keto + EC. Nice work.


You don't quite know then how many men have low testosterone levels then. It is a simple blood test and one of the main differentials that you would put on your list and test for. Besides low T and hypothyroidism, there really isn't many more things I would check. If his tes level is normal, great, but if not, why not fix it under the care of a doctor. If done correctly, it is perfectly safe.
This is all done with a simple blood test by your PCP. Now if we wanted to get "unethical" you could goto an anti-aging clinic where they pretty much just look at your numbers and say "oh yeah, you are definitely borderline on your testosterone and even GH, a 6 month trial of HGH and maybe a testosterone supplement would be perfect for you. BTW did you pay our $500 cash sign up fee?" Big difference. We prescribe testosterone all the time and every man that comes in complaining of ED gets a testosterone panel before the happy pills because they are much happier when we can restore their levels instead of having to hide their viagra bottle.

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PostPosted: Jan 14, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor*Cal wrote:
pet575, can you explain what is involved with the 24-day challenge. Do you just use their shakes and supplements or is there other food you're supposed to eat with that program?


From what I understand some of the shakes are meal replacement and some of them are used in between meals, and you eat a high-fiber high-protein diet (low fat, of course). I was told how it all worked by the guy I talked to but can't remember now. I guess there is a plan laid out for you for what you're supposed to do in Days 1-10 and then 11-24.

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PostPosted: Jan 14, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw this article also: http://www.mensfitness.com/nutrition/supplement_guide/327
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PostPosted: Jan 16, 2011 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to be Honest. reading these posts it is like there is a whole different language for diets, supplements etc for the US. I didn't understand a thing lol. Although I have been hitting the gym for almost 4 months now Im pretty much just sticking to the odd protein shake and no (not too much) crappy take away food. I find that eating 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight a day to be bloody difficult!
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PostPosted: Jan 17, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skwake wrote:
I have to be Honest. reading these posts it is like there is a whole different language for diets, supplements etc for the US. I didn't understand a thing lol. Although I have been hitting the gym for almost 4 months now Im pretty much just sticking to the odd protein shake and no (not too much) crappy take away food. I find that eating 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight a day to be bloody difficult!


Try eating two per day. I suck down about 4 shakes per day, each with about 180-200 grams.

It is a completely different language. As I have gotten more and more into lifting and begun to understand my body I really wish I would have gone into medicine. You almost need a premed or chemist degree to understand half this stuff.

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Skwake
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PostPosted: Jan 17, 2011 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nmballa wrote:

It is a completely different language. As I have gotten more and more into lifting and begun to understand my body I really wish I would have gone into medicine. You almost need a premed or chemist degree to understand half this stuff.



True that. Although I did sport science back in school that didn't lean into anything about supplements, just training methods and that type of thing

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PostPosted: Jan 20, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't put too much faith in the latest MLM concoction. If it was really what they claim they would sell it in every store and make a mint rather than push it via MLM hustlers.

Like mentioned above, it's a simple input/output ratio. As we get older it just takes longer for our bodies to change direction. If your looking to shortcut don't waste your time with MLM snake oil. If one were really needing a jumpstart to stay motivated moving forward, oral winstrol is a good cutting agent/energy booster for fast results. Never done it myself, but it's the lil secret behind all those guys showing good results on their name brand diets/workouts.

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PostPosted: Jan 23, 2011 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pet, 99% of all supplements are lame and a waste of money, including advocare. Eat real food as advocated above (paleo diet, marksdailyapple, etc). THis is what your body is supposed to eat, not some crap that is marketed to you. No supplements work better than actual food, and supplements should only be used to supplement what real food is not giving you for some reason; ex. vit. D in the winter.
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PostPosted: Feb 07, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abs are made in the kitchen, not the gym. Exercising will burn, as a rough guesstimation, 300-450 calories per half-hour. It's about 500x easier to skip two slices of bread. Not saying don't exercise, but using the gym primarily for fat loss is a failing proposition. Moreover, exercise stimulates appetite...and around the treadmill you go...
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