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You'd think the GOP would learn to play better

 
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jryoung
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: You'd think the GOP would learn to play better Reply with quote

Lastnight a bill was shot down by the GOP that had substantial bi-partisan support prior to the election.

S. 3525 is the largest hunting, shooting and conservation bill we have seen in our lifetimes. It seeks to increase public land access, allocate existing funds to build and maintain shooting ranges, eradicate nutria, protect wetlands, and fisheries. It had the support of 47 hook, bullet and conservation organization most notably the NRA. So much support from the NRA that they agreed to "score" it.

The bill would reduce the deficit by $5M over 10 years (it would raise $145M and spend $140M). Prior to the election it passed senate proceedings by votes of 84/7, 92/5...last week it passed Cloture Motion 84/12....but last night the GOP pulls a chickensh!t move and denies a motion to waive all applicable budgetary discipline. Yet, that spending comes from an increase in duck stamp fees, fees that were originally put in place by duck hunters and the current increase comes as a result of duck hunters wanting to pay more.

And by denying the motion they get to avoid the NRA scorecard on the actual bill that many of them hold so dear. I have no fears or concerns that in my lifetime I won't be able to hunt because of firearm restrictions or attacks from the left, but I have huge concern that the right will continue to restrict funds for public land conservation and our access will be whittled away to nothing.

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jgriffith
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope they reject every motion to waive all applicable budgetary discipline, good job GOP PLEASE keep it up!
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Neognosis
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHAT
THE
F?

I don't know anything about this other than what is above, but I want to know more.

I am a shooter. I am not a hunter, but I believe firmly that there needs to be a LOT of public land set aside for hunting. And I understand that the amount of wetland is frighteningly low and decreasing all the time. I am a Teddy Roosevelt Republican in many senses.

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jryoung
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jgriffith wrote:
I hope they reject every motion to waive all applicable budgetary discipline, good job GOP PLEASE keep it up!


Did you miss the part about $5M deficit reduction? I think a -3.5% rate of return is pretty damn outstanding by DC standards. But, it isn't about the money, it's about being sore losers.

I wish the NRA would step up and hold their feet to the fire, you know how many emails would be in my inbox today if it was democrats that pulled this crap?

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jgriffith
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jryoung wrote:

Did you miss the part about $5M deficit reduction? I think a -3.5% rate of return is pretty damn outstanding by DC standards. But, it isn't about the money, it's about being sore losers.



I guess they didnt believe that figure, do you believe all/any of the "deficit reduction" estimates given to you by our government? I guess we should all support Obamacare too, I mean the chosen one said it would reduce costs right?

I just did a quick search and found this:

http://www.agri-pulse.com/Sportsmens-act-fails-senate-11272012.asp


Quote:
The bill had the support of the National Rifle Association as well as the White House, but S. 3525 would have required $14 million in new federal spending, which Sessions said violated the spending levels set in the Budget Control Act.
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jryoung
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bullchit, they supported this all they way until last week....additionally the spending comes from revenues generated by Duck Stamp Fee increases approved and blessed by Ducks Unlimited, duck hunters along with the following 46 hook, bullet and tree hugging groups.

American Fisheries Society
American Fly Fishing Trade Association
American Sportfishing Association
Archery Trade Association
Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies
B.A.S.S. LLC
Bear Trust International
Berkley Conservation Institute
Boone and Crockett Club
Campfire Club of America
Catch-A-Dream Foundation
Center for Coastal Conservation
Coastal Conservation Association
Congressional Sportsmenís Foundation
Delta Waterfowl Foundation
Ducks Unlimited
International Game Fish Association
International Hunter Education Association
Ė United States of America
Masters of Foxhounds Association
Mule Deer Foundation
National Marine Manufacturers Association
National Rifle Association
National Shooting Sports Foundation
National Trappers Association
National Wild Turkey Federation
North American Bear Foundation
North American Grouse Partnership
Northwest Sportfishing Industry Association
Orion The Hunterís Institute
Pheasants Forever
Pope & Young Club
Public Lands Foundation
Quail Forever
Quality Deer Management Association
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Ruffed Grouse Society
Shimano
Sportsmanís Alliance for Alaska
Texas Wildlife Association
The Conservation Fund
Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership
Trout Unlimited
Whitetails Unlimited
Wild Sheep Foundation
Wildlife Forever
Wildlife Management Institute

This isn't Obamacare, nor can the comparison be drawn.

Additionally it keep lead ammo and fishing lure regulation out of the hands of the EPA, you'd think the GOP would like that?

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jgriffith
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jryoung, is no new spending hard to understand? Especially when we have a trillion dollar deficit every year. I applaud them even more for refusing to set aside budgetary constraints to pass a bill that they would like to pass!
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jryoung
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um DEFICIT REDUCTION by $5M. Now we get the status quo, less access to hunting and fishing, less money spent by hunters and fishers in rural economies, less money spend on licenses and tags, less access to target shooting facilities, and more control by the EPA.

If a group wants to impose a fee on itself as it has done for the past 70+ years so they can ensure they have a place to hunt and fish that is not new spending, that's bucking up and paying to play.

Votes of 84/7, 92/5 and 84/12 show that this isn't about spending at all. Besides, the outdoor economy is estimated at $646B annually, it is the lifeblood of rural communities and further, counties that have spent more money on conservation over the last several year have shown more stable, consistent economic growth year over year than those who have dedicated less.

So here you have a bill that, conservatively, is revenue neutral, without the increased economic impacts of additional people hunting and fishing which will further increase the ROI and they want to kill it.

At no time in the last 6 months has anyone raised this issue and worked to address it either through committee action, discussions with Tester or with Leader Reid. Instead, there were a lot of proposed amendments that would have watered down the bill, reduced protections for public lands or stripped out the EPA prohibition on regulating lead in ammo, Tester stood firm on the bill he put together, and fought those amendments off.

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brew
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
jryoung, is no new spending hard to understand? Especially when we have a trillion dollar deficit every year. I applaud them even more for refusing to set aside budgetary constraints to pass a bill that they would like to pass!


You do realize it was additional spending with an additional funding source to offset, correct? If so, then you are trying to prove an all encompassing point by holding a particular item hostage or you're just being contradictory.
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Nor*Cal
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll fire off an email to a few Congressmen I know are sportsmen from California and see what the deal is. At a conference this week but let me see what I can get.
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Nor*Cal
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And let's be fully honest, the votes for cloture was 44 democrats, 38 republicans, and 2 independents. The pasted article blaming the GOP is bombastic, this was a bipartisan move.

The author even voted aye, so something is afoot and this is temporary.

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chavez
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2012 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jryoung, he doesn't get it. Don't bother. Neutral
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PostPosted: Nov 28, 2012 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brew wrote:
Quote:
jryoung, is no new spending hard to understand? Especially when we have a trillion dollar deficit every year. I applaud them even more for refusing to set aside budgetary constraints to pass a bill that they would like to pass!


You do realize it was additional spending with an additional funding source to offset, correct? If so, then you are trying to prove an all encompassing point by holding a particular item hostage or you're just being contradictory.


You do realize that with our government revenue typically does not offset expenses right? Please explain how I am contradictory or am trying to prove an all encompassing point by holding a particular item hostage.

I dont know anything about the budget act or whatever it is, can someone explain it?

From what I get out of everything I have read on this subject (which is not very much) they needed to pass a vote to go against the budget act in order to pass the bill. I assume this means that it will increase the "budget," whatever that means to those clowns in Washington. I am against all new spending (and revenue unless spending is reduced).
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Neognosis
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PostPosted: Nov 28, 2012 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a pretty active shooting sportsman, and an ex-hunter, I have to say that it's been my personal observation that sportsmen, hunters, and also backpackers are three groups that are VERY willing to voluntarily pay out of their own pockets to preserve the environment.


Yes, even the liberal hippy tree huggers that I hike long distances in the Adirondacks with are very willing to contribute and impose taxes on their own groups in the form of permits and stamps, instead of expecting the gov to just fund the preservation of the environment.

and while I don't believe in a tax based purely on use, (having parks and wild lands benefits EVERYONE, even if you don't physically USE them), I think these groups are very fast to put their money where their mouths are, and that is admirable.

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PostPosted: Nov 28, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neognosis, I agree, I just dont know enough about the budget act, or whatever it is, or how the true revenue/expense breakdown of this program is. I'm tired of politicians saying certain programs will be a breakeven or a surplus and they end up being a drain. I would think that if they have to go around the budget act to enact this legislation, then it may have a chance of increasing our debt. If it has a CHANCE of increasing the debt then I hope it gets voted down.

BTW I am also big time in to guns, shooting, hunting, backpacking and enjoying our national parks, I just think the government needs to simmer down a bit with spending.
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jason_ssr
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PostPosted: Nov 29, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO its the dangling carrot connected to the floodgate latch.

If they don't shoot it down, the headline reads, "GOP is all for budgetary discipline unless its a bill for their constituents, then they are all about spending."

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