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Let's talk HD shotguns...

 
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Neognosis
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Let's talk HD shotguns... Reply with quote

Ok, I'm gonna get me one soon.

Autoloader vs. pump?

My a400 has never jamed, not one time, in around 2,000 rounds of light target loads..... is the tx400 (the tactical version) worth 1400 dollars?

Should I go with a less expensive pump, like the benelli supernova?

Or a risky 870 (I read a lot about rounds getting stuck in the barrel of new ones).

Considering that I will likely NEVER need to shoot this thing at another person, how important is complete reliability in a second shot?

pump vs. auto, cost effective?

hmmmm

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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php

Cheapest place online for guns that I have found, includes shipping and no sales tax.
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Rhawn
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will chime in because I have been shopping for this as well.

I've settled on the Mossberg 500 20 Gauge pump, 18.5 inch barrell. For inside the house, the 20 gauge is far more efficient and manageable. I love the safety placement and the quality of the gun for the price.

My next shotgun purchase will be a Saiga 12G semi-auto, post Americanized. More of a SHTF weapon, but a must have.

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ohsix
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a Mossberg 500 12 gauge pump and the safety selector quit working on it. I think this was a common problem several years ago. You may want to make sure they fixed that issue.
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thread on the same topic:

www.forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=93112
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Nor*Cal
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For HD? Easy, Kel-tec KSG for around $800.


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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor*Cal, I believe those are going for mid teen prices due to supply and demand.
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At auction you're right. Kel-tec is still struggling to get enough out the door right now. But I'm guessing a reputable shop could place an order for you if you're willing to wait.
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohsix wrote:
I had a Mossberg 500 12 gauge pump and the safety selector quit working on it. I think this was a common problem several years ago. You may want to make sure they fixed that issue.


I heard that as well but understand its been fixed. Was not an issue on any of the used Mossberg's I looked at or fired.

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Neognosis
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Another thread on the same topic:

www.forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=93112


shoot, apologies~!


pump vs. autoloader...


I can't think of a reason, aside from initial cost, to go with the pump. I am under the impression that modern autoloaders are just as reliable.

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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep a loaded Glock 23 in my nightstand for home defense. That may soon change as I have a 10 month old opening drawers he can reach. I don't keep a round in the chamber and I'm sure it will be years before he's strong enough to pull back the slide. I also have to think about shooting through walls now as my bedroom is not the only room occupied at night.

What's a good way to keep a gun secure from kids, but also allows quick access in an emergency?
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohsix, I use a small finger print safe next to my bed for my H&K 45 and I always keep a round in the chamber. The rest of my guns are in a large, bolted down gun safe in the garage.

Even if you think your kids are too small, its not worth the risk, lock that gun up!
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neognosis wrote:
Considering that I will likely NEVER need to shoot this thing at another person, how important is complete reliability in a second shot?


I believe that is of the upmost importance in home defense. In concealed carry classes, they tell you that if you pull a gun on someone you better intend to use it and empty the magazine because your life was in danger. It's one thing to miss a bird or trophy animal because of a jam but to lose your or a lived one's life because of a gun jam is unacceptable. Get the best thing you can afford. I don't have problems with my Benelli sbe, which is auto. I wouldn't hesitate to get another Benelli for hunting or home defense. I think the most important party of an auto jamming is running junk, low brass shells.

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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with finkle, this is why I bring my reloads to the range and use the best factory ammo for defense/hunting.
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nor*Cal wrote:
For HD? Easy, Kel-tec KSG for around $800.



This

When they get down to retail I'm getting it. I already have the RFB.


The suck of long guns for HD is, well, they are long and cumbersome indoors. The suck of pistols are the control of the weapon (as opposed to a shouldered gun) and the relative weakness of the round. KSG is a full 18.5" barreled shotgun that holds 14+1 that's only 26" in OAL. Best of both worlds.

Keeping guns accessible yet safe from kids and safe from theft is a constant debate in the gun world. There are some really cool shotgun wall mounts if your old lady will let you mess up the feng shui of her decor with instruments of destruction.

People always want a pistol handy, but do you leave it loaded? If so, one in the pipe? While I wouldn't do it, one relatively new thought is to load your pistol, put one in the pipe, then eject the mag. Many modern pistols have mag safety where the hammer physically cannot drop without a mag in. Then stash with the mag out of the gun (maybe even separate drawers?) Basically if a kid picks it up out of curiosity its a brick, yet if you need it, popping the mag in makes it good to go without racking it and risking a feed issue on the first shot.

My big safe is close to my bed, and I can get into it quick. I keep everything in there, and keep my HD weapon loaded and ready (the rest unloaded). I just cannot under any circumstances risk a child touching any of my weapons.

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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been thinking of getting a sword personally. Do I need to get a concealed for that? Guns make me extremely nervous, so yeah.
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PostPosted: Nov 15, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: !!! Reply with quote

My all around duck, upland, deer, everything gun is a Benelli SBE 1. It is a supurb gun, I will probably never trade it in or upgrade to the SBE2 it fits me perfect and patterns extremely well, no matter what choke I seem to run in it. I would have no issue using it as a home defense weapon if I needed. That being said I beat the living crap out of it out in the field. It has even been used as a paddle in some of the swampiest muddy stuff you have ever seen. Used in these conditions will take their toll on even a Benelli if it is not taken care of. And after years of abuse I did go through a time when it did not always eject every shell, until I went through and replaced both magazine and recoil springs. Wire brushing of the magazine tube was also needed.

My reccomendation is that if this is going to be strictly 100% self defense gun that is going to get tossed in the closet and forgot about until needed is to go with the pump. The supernova while probably one of the ugliest shotguns ever made is extremely reliable. 870's have always been the standard by which all other pumps are measured, I have owned several and they shoot no matter what. I have not heard of the new ones not ejecting shells though so can't comment on that as I have not owend a new one.

Do not discount the sound of a pump shotgun fully racking, and the effect it has on intruders. That sound is permanently ingrained in peoples minds, and they know a shotgun will f them up big time! If you can get them to flee the premisis just from that sound you win big! After all that is the goal, to not actually have to use it.
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Neognosis
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PostPosted: Nov 16, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is troublesome, speaking of super reliable supernovas:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-noz2bzRt5g&feature=watch-vrec


Quote:
Do not discount the sound of a pump shotgun fully racking, and the effect it has on intruders.


Doesn't the sound of a round being shucked into an autoloader sound pretty similar?

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PostPosted: Nov 16, 2012 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could get a used (older) 870 or an 870P if you are concerned about the new ones "not being as good"
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3MileBayWaker
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PostPosted: Nov 16, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have 2 870 pumps...I will swear by these two guns.

12ga super magnum
20 ga magnum

The 12ga went swimming in Lake Ontario while goose hunting, ran 25 rounds after submersion no problems. Tore it down fully 3 hours later, hit everything with wd40 to displace any water followed by full cleaning. Not a spec of rust on it, fired well over 5,000 rounds through it since I bought it in 2001. Only misfires I've ever had on either were from shitty Remington rounds where the ends were not crimped properly and V'd inward, due to lack of shot/ powder... Who knows. I can cycle from 2-3/4 to 3-1/2 back to 2-3/4 on the 12 with no issues.

The more you shoot a gun, the better it will fire.... Until you hit a fine line of course due to sooo much wear. Both of mine have silver showing through the bluing but man everything is Soo smooth when I fire them.

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Neognosis
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PostPosted: Nov 16, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

have heard lots of problems with the 870s made after 2010 or so:


http://thesurvivalpodcast.com/forum/index.php?topic=20384.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt8aYlprwnE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNucTMuolaY&NR=1&feature=endscreen


HOWEVER, when there are hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, of 870s in the field, I guess you will find ones with problems....


I looked at a benelli M2... oh my....

as well as a browning 725 sporting. I know, not a HD gun, but I can't seem to stop trying out new O/Us...

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PostPosted: Nov 16, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am going to start buying me some guns also!
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PostPosted: Nov 16, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just picked this up. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=317289199#PIC
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PostPosted: Nov 16, 2012 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhawn, nice, ive got a couple bids out right now for my next gun.
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PostPosted: Nov 17, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than gunbroker.com where do you look for private party sales? I'm looking for deals on hunting rifles of various calibers and maybe an over/under.

Anyone do their own gunsmithing? Looks like a hobby that would be fun to get into.

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Neognosis
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PostPosted: Nov 17, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's a kit I found. It comes in handy when you need a tactical shotgun on a budget.

Some features of the kit:

Mounted Beeswax tactical BioLight
Picatinny duct tape - The ultimate in versatile weapon mounting systems
Patented "Bowie-izer" personal defense edged extension tool

This weapon can be wielded with one hand, leaving the other hand free to deploy the included Aerosol Dispersed Anti-Personal Hyper Heat Device seen in the background (green can, ADAPHHD). The ADAPHHD is activated when sprayed through the Beeswax tactical BioLight.

The weapon system is shown mounted on the optional reclaimed cardboard tactical stabilizing system. The stabilizing system also houses 12 emergency nutrition packs.


As a bonus, this kit also contains Wild Turkey. Steady hands make for a better shot while defending your home from those who would take your wild turkey away.




frontier hd shotgun.jpg

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PostPosted: Nov 17, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Other than gunbroker.com where do you look for private party sales?


http://www.armslist.com

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PostPosted: Nov 17, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flixmaster wrote:
i am going to start buying me some guns also!


What you picking up and where from? For Austin, I like McBrides.

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PostPosted: Nov 17, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just "won" a p226 tacops on gunbroker for $929!
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PostPosted: Nov 20, 2012 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neognosis i like the way you did with your gun and the knife on it its great
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