Carniva Cruises Business Decisions

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Though the company is British/American owned and based in Florida, all Carnival Cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas, Panama, or Liberia.

Someone told me that they do this to avoid the more stringent US safety standards and procedures.

Does anyone know if this is not true, or if there are other reasons for doing this?

goofyboy · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 8:06 am Post subject:

I've read the same. They don't have to meet the same guidelines. Also, I think it has tax implications as well.

eeven73 · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 8:10 am Post subject:

Same reason publicly traded companies incorporate in Delaware.

Or, that individuals incorporate.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

The boats are generally built to ISO requirements. The flag they fly is usually to avoid unions, labor standards, income tax, and so on.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

It has nothing to do with safety requirements? Because that's what I'm reading and hearing on the news.

Not the building of the ship, but the safety equipment requirements, minimum time spent drilling, time people are allowed on board before they must have a safety drill, etc. etc.

Is this just hype, or is there some truth to it?

It's all just to avoid the evil labor unions and business-crushing income tax, is it?

Blue22V · Soul Rider Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 290 City: Double Oak

CB - Ships operating in US ports have to meet US Coast Guard regulations for safety, equipment and passenger load. The ship doesn't change the equipment or crew when they have hit the US territorial distance at sea.

The flag they fly is to avoid tax and employee issues governed by the US.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

To my knowledge, safety and environmental requirements are an international standard based on numerous international agreements and regulatory bodies.

I don't think unions are evil but the labor standards are pretty poor on these boats and income tax is a big deal for industries living on low margins.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Also the way this went down no drill would have accounted for not being able to use any of the port life rafts.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

The news is misleading us then.

Here's what wiki says, with citations for this particular paragraph:

nternational law requires that every merchant ship be registered in a country.[2] This country in which a ship is registered is called its flag state,[3] and the flag state gives the ship the right to fly its civil ensign.[4] A ship's flag state exercises regulatory control over the vessel and is required to inspect it regularly, certify the ship's equipment and crew, and issue safety and pollution prevention documents. A ship operates under the laws of its flag state, and these laws are used if the ship is involved in an admiralty case.[5]

This in addition to labor issues.

eeven73 · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 10:12 am Post subject:

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

But only slightly. Companies still use Flags of Convenience to avoid labor and environmental regulation.

Tbonez · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 10:37 am Post subject:

We tax everything that moves and doesnt move - Hillary Clinton

Does that sound like a place you would like to base your business? In addition to that no stability with the tax code business dont know whats coming or going... I can either keep 90% of my profits or 60% with the same gross... Thats not a hard decision for a lot of companies..

ontrider · Ladies Man Joined: 30 Jul 2003 Posts: 16491 City: Russia

take this boat

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Interesting, thank you Nor*Cal.

Must investigate further

senorbueno · Addict Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 775

I worked offshore in the gulf of mexico for the past 2 years on deepwater drillships.

Every drillship I ever worked on was registered in another country (most of the time it was the Marshall Islands), and those countries would send inspectors out to the ships for safety and regulatory inspections for that country.

However, since we were always operating in US waters, we were also inspected (much more often and much more stringently) by the USCG (as well as MMS/BOEMRE/Whatever they call themselves this week).

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

why would you register a drillship in another country?

senorbueno · Addict Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 775

cameraboy,

I'm sure it has to do with taxes and whatnot, but I was never involved in the maritime aspect of the industry so I can't tell you the specific reasons.

One thing that people don't realize though is that these rigs can and will be used all over the world. The latest generation drillships cost about 1 million USD a day to operate, so if they aren't drilling here, they will be shipped somewhere else to where they can drill.

During the drilling moratorium the gulf lost a lot of rigs to go work overseas (mainly West Africa and South America). I'm sure that has some factors as to what country's the rigs are registered in.

Now that permits are coming through again in the gulf, more and more rigs are funneling their way back to the states however.

Commodore · Ladies Man Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 11636

churchy · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject:

I haven't read through this, but I can tell you that the company I work for is incorporated in Singapore because of tax implications.

jryoung · Ladies Man Joined: 19 Mar 2004 Posts: 7664 City: Man Jose

RampageWake · Posted: Jan 17, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject:

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

Okie Boarder · Ladies Man Joined: 03 Mar 2008 Posts: 10056 City: Edmond

CB, I would agree that would be the "right" thing to do. This is where the argument comes in talking about our country's political and policy decisions regarding taxes. You and I have gone round in discussions about taxes and I tend to favor low to no taxes. I know you like to favor the tax structure in place to support certain programs. The one issue with taxes is it does not just affect individuals. So when a business is faced with a country that taxes earners for the benefit of all the programs in place, they will look to see if there is a way around it so they can maximize profits. Countries (or states or locales) that provide a low tax system or some other incentives for businesses will usually attract them. If we took a similar approach we could attract a lot of those businesses back. Some of which could affect our employment numbers. This is one thing Conservatives want to do, that most see as being evil or somehow pandering to big corporations. But, most times policies that favor business will result in a positive outcome like more tax revenue and/ or more jobs.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

cameraboy, not all oil companies are American.

senorbueno · Addict Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 775

The oilfield is an unbelievably international industry. I have friends that work on 6 different continents (I only worked in the US and spent a couple of days in Trinidad however).

A vast majority of the time (especially offshore) the oil companies do not own the rigs. The rigs are owned by operators and the oil companies are paying the operator to provide the rig/manpower to drill the wells. A lot of the large operators are not based in the US (Transocean, Ensco, etc).

The oil companies plan the well with a geology team and drilling engineers, and they hire all of the service companies to provide their tools, (Casing, cementing, directional drilling, remote operated vehicles, drilling fluids, mudlogging, etc) and are making all the decisions on the wells while being drilled/completed/production etc.

Neognosis · Ladies Man Joined: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 17617 City: Webster

senorbueno · Addict Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 775

buckthis · Posted: Jan 18, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject:

wait a second senor, I knew a guy that worked on an oil rig and as a company perk they gave him a credit card for gas! Think about this, you can drive your truck where ever you want and drive your boat all day long and not cost you a dime! did you have that perk?

senorbueno · Addict Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 775

Again, I worked for an oilfield service company, not an oil company. Oil companies are like the Chevron's, BP's, Exxon's of the world. Oilfield Service are like Halliburton, Smith, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes, etc.

I don't know anyone that gets free gas... although sometimes on the rig we would get a 10$ gas card from the client (oil company) as a safety bonus. In my 2 years working offshore I may have gotten that like 10 times. I do have friends that work for oil companies and they get a discount on their gas from their own company. Not sure the exact amount, but it couldn't have been more than like 10-15 percent.

edit:

I will say this, if you work on land and you're driving your own vehicle, my company would compensate you very nicely for that (900$ a month car allowance + 50 or 55cents / mile). The thing is though, you are putting a lot of wear and tear on your own vehicle, easily putting over 25,000 miles a year on your vehicle just for work. I think one of the stipulations was that the vehicle needs to be less than 4 years old, have less than 100,000 miles and had to have four wheel drive to be eligible for the full amount.

Working offshore, I never drove my own vehicle for work really. I don't even drive to the heliports to go offshore, was always picked up by a driving service to take me the 3+ hours to the docks/heliports.

Nor*Cal · Ladies Man Joined: 12 Jan 2003 Posts: 9479 City: Sac

http://news.discovery.com/earth/concordia-salvage-121701.html#mkcpgn=fbnws1

Faust · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 1496

fish6942 · Addict Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 603

jt09 · Ladies Man Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 22083 City: Austin

Faust,

Faust · Wakeboarder.Commie Joined: 20 May 2005 Posts: 1496

I'm stupid... read it differently... obviously...